Prospective Recruits

[siouxhockey5]

I noticed that Matt Moreland is back playing with the FM Jets, they said he didnt have enough credits to be elgible to play or something while he was at UND, not sure if that means he can even go back to UND, assuming they have an interest in him or he wants to try and walk on, but he has been lighting it up for the Jets, i believe he has scored in all 6 or 7 games he has played in.

Siouxhockey5

[Chuck Schwartz]

Seems as if the Sioux are after Madison La Follette defenseman Brett Bower. Bower is a sophomore and is playing for Team Wisconsin Majors. Team Wisconsin is playing in the Elite League NIT this weekend in New Hope, MN. I am planning on attending the game tomorrow vs Team Minnesota Red.

[Smoggy]

Seems as if the Sioux are after Madison La Follette defenseman Brett Bower. Bower is a sophomore and is playing for Team Wisconsin Majors. Team Wisconsin is playing in the Elite League NIT this weekend in New Hope, MN. I am planning on attending the game tomorrow vs Team Minnesota Red.

Damn we seem to be recruiting Wisconsin hard. Is the talent all of a sudden better or did we just decide to concentrate their more?

[Chuck Schwartz]

Damn we seem to be recruiting Wisconsin hard. Is the talent all of a sudden better or did we just decide to concentrate their more?

It's an un-tapped resourse.

[Smoggy]

It's an un-tapped resourse.

Even with UW there? Do they tend to recruit out-of-state? Not to be confused with the Twin Cities area of Minnesota referring to the rest of the state in this manner.

[Chuck Schwartz]

Even with UW there? Do they tend to recruit out-of-state? Not to be confused with the Twin Cities area of Minnesota referring to the rest of the state in this manner.

Only so many kids fit in with UW. This season there are 27 Wisconsin born players playing D-1. 12 of them play for the Badgers. Wisconsin likes to get as many Wisconsin kids as possible but sometimes it doesnt work out.

[burd]

Seems as if the Sioux are after Madison La Follette defenseman Brett Bower. Bower is a sophomore and is playing for Team Wisconsin Majors. Team Wisconsin is playing in the Elite League NIT this weekend in New Hope, MN. I am planning on attending the game tomorrow vs Team Minnesota Red.

I think Team Wisconsin has a kid named Mike Lennon playing, a Junior from Reedsburg. Small but quick. Be interested what you think if you see him play.

[DMT]

I noticed that Matt Moreland is back playing with the FM Jets, they said he didnt have enough credits to be elgible to play or something while he was at UND, not sure if that means he can even go back to UND, assuming they have an interest in him or he wants to try and walk on, but he has been lighting it up for the Jets, i believe he has scored in all 6 or 7 games he has played in.

Siouxhockey5

I "think" I remember reading in the Forum that Moreland did not make the cut as a walkon with the Sioux, so he went back to the Jets.

[Just Curious]

The forum reported that Moreland did not have enough credits to continue to play for the Sioux. While he has been lighting it up for the Jets, I don't see him back in a Sioux uniform anytime soon, especially if we keep bringing in the talent, there just isn't room for him.

[DMT]

From the Forum.

Fargo-Moorhead Jets Junior A hockey forward Robby Philipp said Thursday he expects to make an official visit to the University of North Dakota when the Sioux host Colorado College on Nov. 24 at Ralph Engelstad Arena in Grand Forks.

[skateshattrick]

The forum reported that Moreland did not have enough credits to continue to play for the Sioux. While he has been lighting it up for the Jets, I don't see him back in a Sioux uniform anytime soon, especially if we keep bringing in the talent, there just isn't room for him.

You may be right, but he is clearly good enough to play D1 college hockey. I think his intentions are to go back to UND as an invited walk on, but that could change if he keeps lighting it up and gets interest from other schools. You really should go see him. He is very talented and could play WCHA hockey. He may not get a chance to play for the big boys, but he can play. Robbie Phillip is reportedly getting interest from UND, and at least at this point (keeping in mind that Matt Moreland is older), Moreland is a better player.

[Just Curious]

I don't doubt that Moreland is a great player, I just don't see the Sioux saving him a spot the next year or two. He may be better off trying to get other offers. I am surprised the Sioux are looking at Phillip, he is good, but not the best player on the team. Does anyone know if Echtnernach has been looked at or is committed anywhere. I think he may be the best player on that team. Personally I would like to see all 3 in D1 hockey, just not sure its going to be in the green and white.

We also need to remember, that while NAHL is junior A hockey, its not as competitive as say the USHL, look at Fox last year, who couldn't cut it in the USHL and came back to the Jets and lit it up.

[skateshattrick]

I don't doubt that Moreland is a great player, I just don't see the Sioux saving him a spot the next year or two. He may be better off trying to get other offers. I am surprised the Sioux are looking at Phillip, he is good, but not the best player on the team. Does anyone know if Echtnernach has been looked at or is committed anywhere. I think he may be the best player on that team. Personally I would like to see all 3 in D1 hockey, just not sure its going to be in the green and white.

We also need to remember, that while NAHL is junior A hockey, its not as competitive as say the USHL, look at Fox last year, who couldn't cut it in the USHL and came back to the Jets and lit it up.

I don't disagree with you about Moreland's potential future with the Sioux, but you struck a nerve with your comments about the NAHL being an inferior league. My apologies for being defensive, but you are wrong about Phil Fox not being able to cut it in the USHL. He was out on the ice whenever his USHL team needed a big goal, particularly on the power play. He was clearly good enough to play at that level, but the USHL has turned into a league for high school age kids and for kids who are already committed to colleges. He got caught in a situation where he was not playing enough because they had made commitments to those kids so he came back. The gap between the USHL and the NAHL is narrowing. Jacque Lamoureux said that his team at Bismarck would have beaten his brother Mario's team at Tri-City. That may or may not be true, but it certainly is arguable. Moreland would not only play, but do very well, with ANY USHL team. He had an opportunity to go to the USHL but chose not to. Robbie Phillip made the Indiana Ice, and was told he would be on the top 2 lines, but chose not to go for personal reasons. Austin Lee already has a scholarship to MSUM. You are entitled to your opinions, but think about what you say first. There are a lot of high school and Junior A players and coaches that read these message boards, and I think you will strike more nerves than just mine with those comments.

[Just Curious]

I think the purpose of this board is to have the ability to voice your opinions even if you know that it is going to strike a nerve with some people.

I have watched both USHL and NAHL games, and in my opinion, which is just my opinion, I think the USHL has an overall better talent base. I realize what the main purpose of the USHL is and that they cater to kids still in or just out of high school, looking to commit to a college program if they haven't already.

As far as Fox is concerned, I took my opinion from an interview with him that I read in the Forum I think. He stated that because of playing time issues and some trouble adapting to the speed of the game he chose to leave. He did say it was his choice and he was not forced out, but he admitted to having problems at that level.

I have watched Bismarck play both the jets and NDSU's club team. Now, while I admit I have never seen the Storm play, I doubt very much that the Bobcats could contend on a regular basis. Again, just my opinion, but as far as organized play and some very basic skills, I would say the Bobcats, at least the team the last 2 years, is about the level of a decent high school team, not much more. Needless to say, all those individuals are more talented than I am, and yes there are talented people in all of the leagues and personal choice factors in to the decisions this kids make, but what I caution people against is thinking that stats in one league are the same no matter where you play. The fact of the matter is that leagues, not just the NAHL and USHL are on average different caliber, and while they all may contain very talented individuals, an individuals achievements should be taken with a grain of salt. Talent is talent and that takes watching and evaluating, not just statistics.

[redwing77]

Just Curious-

Although I haven't seen much NAHL games, only a few F-M Jets games, I agree with you. That being said, there have been some really good players that have come from the NAHL such as Ryan Miller and Maine's goaltender Bishop. So you never know, and that's one of the things that hurts the NAHL. With the USHL, the reputation of the league makes you believe that the players on a USHL team are really standout players compared to players from the NAHL, COJHL, EJHL, AtJHL, and so on. When players go to these other leagues you don't know if their production is a result of talent or the league's competition. That's really where a coach's recruiting ability gets tested, imo. I think every coach can see the talent of a Toews, Okposo, Erik Johnson, and so on, but how can a DI recruiter tell about a guy who plays in a league like the NAHL as to what his potential is? That's why it is always impressive to see successful players from "lesser" leagues to me because it seems like they are more of the "diamond in the rough."

One thing you did say regarding Fox was something I'd think would be a HUGE warning flag for DI recruiters. Fox allegedly stated he had trouble adapting to the speed of the game. Playing time is one thing, I can understand going from the USHL to the NAHL if it means more playing time, but if he can't adapt to the speed of the USHL game, what makes a DI recruiter believe he could adapt to the DI game?

As to Robby Phillipp and those Wisconsin players, I don't know much about them. I haven't been to a Jets game this season thus far.

[Eskimo 22]

Off topic but what is the name of the restaurant in the Ralph parking lot. Comming for the Sat game and need to eat.

[brianvf]

Off topic but what is the name of the restaurant in the Ralph parking lot. Comming for the Sat game and need to eat.

Suite 49

[Eskimo 22]

Thank you

[skateshattrick]

I think the purpose of this board is to have the ability to voice your opinions even if you know that it is going to strike a nerve with some people.

I have watched both USHL and NAHL games, and in my opinion, which is just my opinion, I think the USHL has an overall better talent base. I realize what the main purpose of the USHL is and that they cater to kids still in or just out of high school, looking to commit to a college program if they haven't already.

As far as Fox is concerned, I took my opinion from an interview with him that I read in the Forum I think. He stated that because of playing time issues and some trouble adapting to the speed of the game he chose to leave. He did say it was his choice and he was not forced out, but he admitted to having problems at that level.

I have watched Bismarck play both the jets and NDSU's club team. Now, while I admit I have never seen the Storm play, I doubt very much that the Bobcats could contend on a regular basis. Again, just my opinion, but as far as organized play and some very basic skills, I would say the Bobcats, at least the team the last 2 years, is about the level of a decent high school team, not much more. Needless to say, all those individuals are more talented than I am, and yes there are talented people in all of the leagues and personal choice factors in to the decisions this kids make, but what I caution people against is thinking that stats in one league are the same no matter where you play. The fact of the matter is that leagues, not just the NAHL and USHL are on average different caliber, and while they all may contain very talented individuals, an individuals achievements should be taken with a grain of salt. Talent is talent and that takes watching and evaluating, not just statistics.

I would ask that you cite or produce that article in which Fox allegedly said that the speed of the game is greater. I don't believe that you can because it simply is not true. The USHL being faster is a myth. Ask Brooks Dezellar from the Jets who just returned from Sioux Falls. He had no trouble with the speed of the game, he was just told that he was too old. By the way, he was a standout with Holy Angels. As far as comparing the NAHL to a decent high school team, that is just untrue and demonstrates that you do not know what you are talking about. Many of the players in the NAHL have USHL experience, and most were among the top players from their teams in high school. If you look at the Jets, Grant Larson and Marc Mihulka have not exactly been lighting it up, and they were among the best players in ND. Several other top players from ND who played the Elite Leagues and did well did not make their roster or the roster of any NAHL team. If you look the rosters of the teams around the country, you will see that there are quite a few players who came from the NAHL and it is increasing.

[Chuck Schwartz]

I would ask that you cite or produce that article in which Fox allegedly said that the speed of the game is greater. I don't believe that you can because it simply is not true. The USHL being faster is a myth. Ask Brooks Dezellar from the Jets who just returned from Sioux Falls. He had no trouble with the speed of the game, he was just told that he was too old. By the way, he was a standout with Holy Angels. As far as comparing the NAHL to a decent high school team, that is just untrue and demonstrates that you do not know what you are talking about. Many of the players in the NAHL have USHL experience, and most were among the top players from their teams in high school. If you look at the Jets, Grant Larson and Marc Mihulka have not exactly been lighting it up, and they were among the best players in ND. Several other top players from ND who played the Elite Leagues and did well did not make their roster or the roster of any NAHL team. If you look the rosters of the teams around the country, you will see that there are quite a few players who came from the NAHL and it is increasing.

I don't necissarily disagree with you, but if your hinting that the NAHL isn't that much different then the USHL, you are sorely mistaken.

[USA Hockey]

I'm not going to take anything away from the NAHL, it's a good league. But to say it is better than the USHL is sorely mistaken. The USHL is by far the best junior league in America and is becoming a hotbed for more 18 year olds/high school age every year. I don't know about 2006, but in 2005 62 out of the 100 players in the Frozen Four were from the USHL, twenty eight players were selected in the draft, and they have an annual average of 100 players signing division one scholarships. The USHL has the most NCAA and NHL alumni out of every junior league. If you've ever been to a USHL game, it is a much faster tempo and the teams have much more depth compared to high school or any other junior leagues.

[Chuck Schwartz]

I'm not going to take anything away from the NAHL, it's a good league. But to say it is better than the USHL is sorely mistaken. The USHL is by far the best junior league in America and is becoming a hotbed for more 18 year olds/high school age every year. I don't know about 2006, but in 2005 62 out of the 100 players in the Frozen Four were from the USHL, twenty eight players were selected in the draft, and they have an annual average of 100 players signing division one scholarships. The USHL has the most NCAA and NHL alumni out of every junior league. If you've ever been to a USHL game, it is a much faster tempo and the teams have much more depth compared to high school or any other junior leagues.

Thats pretty spot on.

[Just Curious]

I never imagined that the few comments I made would set off such a debate. I have never once tried to imply that only USHL has good players, as I stated in my last post, there are great players in every league and all the leagues possess a good amount of talent. My main point was that overall, the USHL is a more competitive league. That is to say if you took an average talent player from the USHL, he would generally be a better player than the average player from other junior leagues in the US. Also, that on average the speed of the game and the play are a little better in the USHL, again there are exceptions both ways, I am not taking that away. But SkateShattrick, I think if you expect me to accept your exceptions to the trends you should be willing to consider mine. You can throw all the names at me you want to, and you may have your points, but I also have mine. I have been to games in both leagues, I grew up watching and playing hockey so I understand what I consider to be a talented player, which is not to say that I don't have my own set of criteria. Maybe with time and watching more games I will change my mind, but for now the play that I have experienced at the NAHL level is not up to par with that I have seen in the USHL. I think everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and opinions, but the numbers do not lie, and I thank those posters who have been gracious enough to supply stats to both sides of this argument. I think when it boils down, the numbers are what we need to look at and whose to say that those ratios won't change in the near future, but I stand by my original statement about the USHL vs NAHL.

As far as the Fox article is concerned, you are just as capable of finding it as I am, if you think I am lying then look it up and prove me wrong.

[skateshattrick]

I never imagined that the few comments I made would set off such a debate. I have never once tried to imply that only USHL has good players, as I stated in my last post, there are great players in every league and all the leagues possess a good amount of talent. My main point was that overall, the USHL is a more competitive league. That is to say if you took an average talent player from the USHL, he would generally be a better player than the average player from other junior leagues in the US. Also, that on average the speed of the game and the play are a little better in the USHL, again there are exceptions both ways, I am not taking that away. But SkateShattrick, I think if you expect me to accept your exceptions to the trends you should be willing to consider mine. You can throw all the names at me you want to, and you may have your points, but I also have mine. I have been to games in both leagues, I grew up watching and playing hockey so I understand what I consider to be a talented player, which is not to say that I don't have my own set of criteria. Maybe with time and watching more games I will change my mind, but for now the play that I have experienced at the NAHL level is not up to par with that I have seen in the USHL. I think everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and opinions, but the numbers do not lie, and I thank those posters who have been gracious enough to supply stats to both sides of this argument. I think when it boils down, the numbers are what we need to look at and whose to say that those ratios won't change in the near future, but I stand by my original statement about the USHL vs NAHL.

As far as the Fox article is concerned, you are just as capable of finding it as I am, if you think I am lying then look it up and prove me wrong.

I really do not want to get into a spitting contest with you either, and acknowledge that you are entitled to your opinions. I also do not disagree that the USHL is a superior league. However, my point is that the USHL is getting to be a younger league for prospects, and that the NAHL is much closer than it was a few years ago. I think that is evident by the number of D1 scholarships which increase every year. What I do have problems with, however, is that you made a statement that is not true--that Phil Fox left the USHL because of the speed of the game. He never said that, and the fact that he received a D1 scholarship to Northern Michigan demonstrates the fallacy of that contention. Finally, I don't have any problems with your opinions, but you always manage to take gratuitous and unnecessary jabs at the NAHL, such as saying it is the level of a decent high school team. If that comment was intended solely to be mean-spirited, it accomplished that objective. However, it is untrue. If you attend any NAHL games (which I gather you do not) you will see that the level is far above high school. It may be below the USHL, but it is still Junior A hockey and very good hockey.

[Goon]

Only so many kids fit in with UW. This season there are 27 Wisconsin born players playing D-1. 12 of them play for the Badgers. Wisconsin likes to get as many Wisconsin kids as possible but sometimes it doesnt work out.

Wisconsin Pride on Ice, hum kind of has an interesting ring to it.

That was an interesting stat I was not aware of.

Edited November 6, 2006 by Goon