Pair of Virg Foss Articles

[bisonguy]

[Cratter]

UND hockey is great

No really UND hockey is great... Have you seen our arena

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice subtle way to try and incite smack. Save it for your own Smack Board.

[greenandgold01]

My other personal pleasant surprise this year (being out of market) was the addition of UND's football games to the ESPN tickers, which came in handy more than once when I was out during UND's game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm almost positive that for regular season games ESPN only shows DIaa and DIa football scores on the ticker.

Perhaps you saw when they included the DII and DIII playoff scores.

[GeauxSioux]

I'm glad to hear you find the truth so humorous.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The truth is that when you read a publication such as the World Almanac they don't list the winner of DI-AA championship game as the national champion for football. The team that they list is a DI-A team, such as Florida, USC, LSU .... There is no mention of the DI-AA championship game or a list of past DI-AA champions. There is a list of past college hockey champions and North Dakota is in there seven times. I reference the World Almanac because I happen to have one in my house and it comes in handy for silly arguments like this.

I live in the south and you could ask most folks to list 5 DI-AA teams and they couldn't do it. When you talk about college football down here it is all about DI-A football. Before you ask the question about how many know anything about college hockey, I will say very few. That being said, hockey as a whole is gaining popularity in the south, mostly due to the ECHL.

[Cratter]

The truth is that when you read a publication such as the World Almanac they don't list the winner of DI-AA championship game as the national champion for football. The team that they list is a DI-A team, such as Florida, USC, LSU .... There is no mention of the DI-AA championship game or a list of past DI-AA champions. There is a list of past college hockey champions and North Dakota is in there seven times. I reference the World Almanac because I happen to have one in my house and it comes in handy for silly arguments like this.

I live in the south and you could ask most folks to list 5 DI-AA teams and they couldn't do it. When you talk about college football down here it is all about DI-A football. Before you ask the question about how many know anything about college hockey, I will say very few. That being said, hockey as a whole is gaining popularity in the south, mostly due to the ECHL.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Them southern folks must not be to smart, because up here in the north country, I am surrounded by D2 schools and can still name five IAA schools.

What you are saying is all pointless, because what Bisonguy said was right. The NCAA only recognizes as champions is DI-AA....

The BCS is not associated with the NCAA.

[GeauxSioux]

What you are saying is all pointless, because what Bisonguy said was right.  The NCAA only recognizes as champions is DI-AA....

The BCS is not associated with the NCAA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You may be right about it being pointless insofar as the NCAA. The point that I was trying to make was about public perception. NDSU is attempting to garner national attention for their football. My point is that no one cares who plays DI-AA. They care about DI-A. Like I said it is a silly argument.

[greenandgold01]

You may be right about it being pointless insofar as the NCAA. The point that I was trying to make was about public perception. NDSU is attempting to garner national attention for their football. My point is that no one cares who plays DI-AA. They care about DI-A. Like I said it is a silly argument.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It'd be interesting to see what the DIaa playoff TV deal and the Frozen Four TV deal compare in terms of dollar value.

[jimdahl]

I'm almost positive that for regular season games ESPN only shows DIaa and DIa football scores on the ticker.

That was precisely my point -- as I said in my post, it was a "pleasant surprise" to me, too, to notice UND's scores when I hadn't stayed home to follow the game. In the regular season, it certainly didn't include all D-II scores each week (just as it doesn't seem to have all I-AA scores), but it usually included UND. It was much more common in the rotation on ESPN2 than 1, but I can still catch that update at any bar.

Could we all drop the I-AA football championship's tv coverage? The whole topic arc is irrelevant smack that the Bison fans are trying to goad you into; UND isn't going I-AA any time soon and NDSU has never and won't for sometime set foot near any such game.

[bisonguy]

That was precisely my point -- as I said in my post, it was a "pleasant surprise" to me, too, to notice UND's scores when I hadn't stayed home to follow the game. In the regular season, it certainly didn't include all D-II scores each week (just as it doesn't seem to have all I-AA scores), but it usually included UND. It was much more common in the rotation on ESPN2 than 1, but I can still catch that update at any bar.

Could we all drop the I-AA football championship's tv coverage? The whole topic arc is irrelevant smack that the Bison fans are trying to goad you into; UND isn't going I-AA any time soon and NDSU has never and won't for sometime set foot near any such game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it was the top 5 DII and top 5 DIII teams that ESPN added to their ticker this year.

AFAIK, all of I-AA scores are on the ESPN ticker. I know I saw all of NDSU's games.

There was talk of ESPN possibly adding the top 25 DII and DIII scores this year.

[tnt]

NDSU has as much chance to win a DI-AA title as they did a Division II title. There is not much difference in the upper echelon teams. NDSU proved that by beating a highly ranked (3rd at the time I believe) Montana team in Billings. Let's not forget, they didn't make the playoffs in Division II that year. Once again, you only need to look to the Bison fan's that come on this board as proof positive that they will always measure themselves against the Sioux programs, and if they continue to do that, they will always come up short because they will never be able to say they were the best college team in the country in any sport.

[Supertrex]

What I find nearly impossible to believe is how Bisonguy seems to be totally sincere in his argument - he actually believes that if the Bison win a D1-AA championship they will be the true NCAA champions. What kind of kool-aid do they serve at the Team Makers gatherings anyway?

Look, it's common knowledge that the bowl system has been used to determine the National Champion in D1-A for generations and if the Bison were participating in a bowl game to determine the "National Champion", Mr. Bisonguy would not be taking such a ridiculous position. Like I said above, I am anxiously awaiting the Bison - Gopher football game. I'll take the Bison and 50 points. And the Gophers aren't that good.

It isn't hard to figure out how NDSU ended up in their current predicament (no conference affiliation, etc.) when their supporters are willing to swallow crap like Bisonguy spews...

[Cratter]

You may be right about it being pointless insofar as the NCAA. The point that I was trying to make was about public perception. NDSU is attempting to garner national attention for their football. My point is that no one cares who plays DI-AA. They care about DI-A. Like I said it is a silly argument.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did Bisonguy ever mention public perception? NDSU is indeed trying to garner national attention for their football......and so is UND. You point is no one cares about DI-AA, but many more people care about DI-AA than they do D2! You're right it is a silly arguement.

[bincitysioux]

UND has DI hockey, NDSU has DI football.

I don't see anything wrong with that arrangement.

Neither do I. Just remember that both schools have DI programs. The difference is that UND's marquee sport competes at the highest level of play available in the NCAA. NDSU's marquee sport competes at a secondary level of play in the NCAA. UND's marquee sport competes against schools like Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, BC, Notre Dame, etc. NDSU's marquee sport competes against SDSU, some teams from Louisiana, Southern Utah or something, etc. This is why UND sporting events are on television so much, because of their level of competition.

Don't assume that NDSU will be anything other than mediocre in DI-AA play as they have been nothing more than that in DII for the past 15 years.

UND is not a hockey-only school. I go to alot of hockey games but I have season tickets for football, not hockey. I am not a huge college football fan, just a Sioux football fan after going to school at UND, but I have always been a huge NFL football fan. I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the sport. But for what it is worth, I had never heard of I-AA football until the NDSU move. I had never heard of the football team from Northwestern St., in Louisiana. But I did know that BC and Michigan had hockey. I'm not knocking I-AA, because after learning about it, I think that UND football belongs in I-AA also. Just don't think that a football game in N.D. against Nicholls State, Weber State, or UC-Davis is going to garner more attention, locally or nationally, than a hockey game in North Dakota against Minnesota, Wisconsin, or Michigan. And don't think that if the Bison ever do play the gophers in football that anyone outside fargo will care, because it will be nothing more that DI vs. DI-AA warm-up game. Kind of like an NDSU vs. Arkansas-Monticello game. Just a game to get the gophers ready for the football season. But when North Dakota plays Minnesota in hockey, people all over the country take notice, because they know it is a game that will likely have playoff and nat'l championship ramifications.

[FargoBison]

NDSU was hardly mediocore for the past 15 years in football but you can believe whatever you want. NDSU has already made a lot of waves in IAA and are already being called "the next Montana" and a "powerhouse" those words don't seem to match to closely with the level of mediocrity that you are trying to describe. Also IAA is alot more then a few LA schools and SUU, IAA is UMASS, Villinova, Harvard, Montana, UNI, SIU, WKU, etc. And also as NDSU progresses into IAA they will get more and more exposure, IAA football recieves just as much or more exposure as DI hockey gets and that is a fact. Again people all over the country will not take notice of a UND-UMN hockey game because hockey has a limited fan base, other college hockey fans will care but not the rest of the nation. While UND and the UMN play hockey most of the nation is concerned about what is happening in the world of DI college basketball not hockey.

[LeftyZL]

Until you can play for a national championship or even a playoff game(2007 I believe)...your football team is playing nothing more than meaningless regular season games. It's good to when them, but what does it get them? Last year they were 8-3? and what did they get? A seat on the couch watching college football for another 6 weeks....I'm not bashing the program, because in the long run UND will do the same I believe. But to start gloating about how your program is the next Montana or the next powerhouse, please don't compare Montana and NDSU...Because they're not even close. Montana has a national title in D-1AA(2 I believe) and numerous playoff victories that mean something more than a victory over Southern Utah or Nicholls State. When NDSU gets to that level, then you talk all the talk you want and shut everyone up. Until then...

Lefty

[FargoBison]

I'm not gloating I'm just saying what the head coach of SIU said about NDSU's football program and I was saying that to make a point that NDSU is not mediocore. I know NDSU has some work to do be on Montana's level of dominance in IAA. And for now NDSU's meaningless games really only are for pride but it is very important to win these games so that by the time NDSU is playoff eligable they are nationally recognized for their quality football program and are well known throughout the landscape of IAA football since the playoffs are decided by a national comitee.

[CoteauRinkRat]

It'd be interesting to see what the DIaa playoff TV deal and the Frozen Four TV deal compare in terms of dollar value.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What does that have to do with anything?

Do you remember that the DII Championship game had higher ratings than the DI-AA game a couple years ago on ESPN?

[CoteauRinkRat]

NDSU has already made a lot of waves in IAA and are already being called "the next Montana" and a "powerhouse" those words don't seem to match to closely with the level of mediocrity that you are trying to describe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who is saying this? Gene Taylor? Craig Bohl?

[Supertrex]

Again people all over the country will not take notice of a UND-UMN hockey game because hockey has a limited fan base, other college hockey fans will care but not the rest of the nation. While UND and the UMN play hockey most of the nation is concerned about what is happening in the world of DI college basketball not hockey.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And while they may be concerned about what is happening in DI college basketball, only a handful of those will be following the Bison D1 basketball. Certainly more people follow UND hockey than follow Bison basketball. You've fallen off your rocker if you believe otherwise. At times last year, I'm not sure there were 10 people in the country that cared about the Bison men's basketball team and that number includes the coach, the players and a couple of local sports announcers.

[jloos]

16,771 watched - in a 20,668 seat stadium James Madison University WHO?beat Montana in last years championship D1AA game.

17,155 watched in a 17,000 seat arena (how it was set up for hockey), Denver beat UND in this years championship game.

As far as TV numbers, I have no idea what they were. I do know there were a lot more D1 hockey games on TV than D1AA football games. Down South I'm sure that is another story, but D1 hockey is clearly a much bigger deal in this part of the country.

[dakotadan]

I am one person who does believe that NDSU's football team will be successful. I also believe that they will have other sports that will be moderately successful such as wrestling. I am guessing that UND will one day also be in DI. But I like the approach that UND is taking, slow and prepared. I don't understand why NDSU didn't look at fixing up the BSA, work on schollarship endowments, and have a treasure chest of money in hiding before taking the leap to DI. Five years ago I never would have thought UND would be able to last in DI. But look at what UND has done in the last few years: new facilities for most of our sports, added women's hockey and got soccer going again, and from my understanding a campaign to raise money for a new athletic building next to Memorial stadium could be coming rather soon. I truely believe both UND and NDSU could become nationally competative DI schools.

[FargoBison]

Who is saying this? Gene Taylor? Craig Bohl?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The head coach of the highly ranked Southern Illinois Salukis said that not Bohl or Taylor. Here is the link.

[greenandgold01]

What does that have to do with anything?

Do you remember that the DII Championship game had higher ratings than the DI-AA game a couple years ago on ESPN?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This question goes to the heart of the matter if the DIaa football playoffs are worth more in dollar value to the TV networks thanthe DI hockey playoffs.

[The Sicatoka]

Again, if DI-AA is so wonderful, why are you here?

PS - As recently reported in the "Fargo Forum," did Inninger raise that last $600k yet to make this year's budget in these last two months of the fiscal year (having raised $400k in the first ten months). How's the next $1 MM for next year coming?

PPS - That Ralph is a pretty nice arena to house a seven-time DI champion in, eh?

[bisonguy]

What I find nearly impossible to believe is how Bisonguy seems to be totally sincere in his argument - he actually believes that if the Bison win a D1-AA championship they will be the true NCAA champions. What kind of kool-aid do they serve at the Team Makers gatherings anyway?

Look, it's common knowledge that the bowl system has been used to determine the National Champion in D1-A for generations and if the Bison were participating in a bowl game to determine the "National Champion", Mr. Bisonguy would not be taking such a ridiculous position. Like I said above, I am anxiously awaiting the Bison - Gopher football game. I'll take the Bison and 50 points. And the Gophers aren't that good. 

It isn't hard to figure out how NDSU ended up in their current predicament (no conference affiliation, etc.) when their supporters are willing to swallow crap like Bisonguy spews...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sincere about it because it's the truth. I-AA is the highest level of football competition in which the NCAA recognizes a national champion. I never stated that it's the highest level of competition of football sponsorsed by the NCAA.

The NCAA seems to agree-SOURCE

The NCAA does not conduct a national championship in Division I-A football and is not involved in the selection process. Since 1998, the Bowl Championship Series (BCS) operated jointly by the ACC, Southeastern, Big 12, Big East, Big Ten and Pacific-10 Conferences has used a ranking system to determine the number one and number two teams at the end of the season. These two teams play each other in a post-season bowl game for the BCS national championship.

I agree with whoever used the Varsity, JV, Soph. analogy earlier.