wsuwarrior Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 http://www.ncaasports.com/football/mens/polls/polls/divii Here's the latest rankings: 1) Michigan Tech 2) Northwood 3) Winona State 4) North Dakota 5) Nebraska - Omaha 6) St. Cloud State 7) Saginaw Valley State 8) Grand Valley State 9) Ferris State 10) South Dakota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 http://www.ncaasports.com/football/mens/polls/polls/divii Here's the latest rankings: 1) Michigan Tech 2) Northwood 3) Winona State 4) North Dakota 5) Nebraska - Omaha 6) St. Cloud State 7) Saginaw Valley State 8) Grand Valley State 9) Ferris State 10) South Dakota <{POST_SNAPBACK}> At least these rankings seem to make sense. Though I still think Winona is too high. No disrespect, because they'll probably knock someone off in the playoffs, but their schedule is no where near the other teams on this list. In fact, NCC has 4 and the GLAIC has 5. Winona is the only team from the NSIC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethanm Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 I don't like the fact that UND could get no higher than 3rd if MTU and Northwood win out. It'll be interesting to see the Ferris St.-Northwood score. If Northwood doesn't win big, UND would have the most impressive result of the one comment opponent of the three which it seems the current system doesn't really take into consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldog Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Regional Rankings Doesn't make much sense, I guess playing Duluth hurt the Sioux's strength of schedule. Michigan Tech #1? Winona ahead of the Sioux? <{POST_SNAPBACK}>You all better hope Ferris beats Northwood and Saginaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CougarHater1993 Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 why not Winona over UND? I think WSU proved they can play with UND and is just as good. Even with only 14 rides to UND's 36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGame Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 why not Winona over UND? I think WSU proved they can play with UND and is just as good. Even with only 14 rides to UND's 36 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Please stop the scholarship talk, it is impressive but should and does mean nothing when it comes to rankings. If UND wins out they should be ahead of Winona just because they have a much tougher schedule. Winona plays nobody, and SDSU (who pounded Winona) would just be another middle of the pack NCC team if they were still in the conference. This is not to say that Winona isn't a better team than UND, they just haven't been forced to prove it yet due to the soft schedule or really the soft conference they play in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdahl Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 I promised this a little while ago. Just for comparison's sake, here's what RPI would look like for D2 football with the following assumptions: only games against D2 opponents are counted, RPI is weighted 25%/50%/25% (which I believe is what both DI hockey/DI basketball use). D2 football RPI (by region) RPI explained (from the perspective of how to calculate it, as opposed to explanation for layman) About Central Washington The anomoly that probably jumps out most is Central Washington. That is related to the sparseness of football schedules, CWU has only played 5 contests against D2 opponents and those 5 opponents have a winning percentage of .75. That gives them BY FAR the toughest schedule of teams under consideration in the NW, with the next toughest opponents win% being .57. As Central Washington gets a couple more mandatory conference games under its belt against more mediocre teams, Western Washington (.5105) and Western Oregon (.250), their opponents win% will decline. In recognition that so few contests are played in football, we could also bring them more in line immediately by weighting opponents-opponents win% a little more heavily (thereby saying, even if all your opponents average .600, thats not so impressive if their opponents average .450). Modifying RPI In reality, everyone who uses RPI modifies it to add some other goals. Basketball adds in factors for strong wins, h2h, and some other factors. Hockey performs a more complex pairwise comparison in which every team under consideration (RPI > .500) is compared to every other team on the basis of RPI, head to head, common opponents, and results against other teams under consideration. Clearly such a computation would be customized to the goals of the sport, but applying the hockey formula exactly yields the following Pairwise comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoHawks! Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 why not Winona over UND? I think WSU proved they can play with UND and is just as good. Even with only 14 rides to UND's 36 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Winona is a dangerous team....because teams like the Sioux look past them. I think if the Sioux play Winona again, it won't be close like last year. The Sioux would win comfortably in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OETKB Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Clearly such a computation would be customized to the goals of the sport, but applying the hockey formula exactly yields the following Pairwise comparison. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Very nice, Jim. Very encouraging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrior41 Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Winona is a dangerous team....because teams like the Sioux look past them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxFan48 Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Winona is not all that great and dont play anyone.....should not even be ranked in top 8 in the region.....sorry its the truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrior41 Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Winona is not all that great and dont play anyone.....should not even be ranked in top 8 in the region.....sorry its the truth <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thank you SioxFan48, that pretty much sums up my point...ten gallon ego hat on a two gallon head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 I am sure you and every other Sioux fan thought the same thing last year, but were you thinking how inferior Winona was when you were losing with less than two minutes to play? In my opinion, in the 2001 game UND probably did underestimate Winona's offense to an extent. I say that because in the two weeks following that game, UND shut down two teams in UC-Davis and Pitt St. that were more talented than Winona was. Last year, I don't think UND underestimated Winona at all, but the way that game played out was very typical of UND games last season. Of the 14 games the Sioux played, 8 were decided by one score, and 3 more were decided by two scores. So although Winona can be justifiably proud of the way they came back, it's not as though they did anything that teams like NDSU, SCSU, UNO and SDSU did not. This year, the UND defense has really come of age and are playing extremely well. Last year, the defense was very up-and-down. I respect the quality of the program and understand Sioux fans have the right to look down on Winona to some extent (we haven't beaten you yet), but the narrow-minded thinking (regarding the quality of Winona's play) by the majority of Sioux fans is unbelievable. I think most NCC fans do look down on Winona's schedule, although that's not due to anything Winona has done. You obviously can't help that the rest of the NSIC is so far below you. And you can't be blamed for the fact that Missouri Western is nowhere near what they were last year, just as UND opponent Mesa St. is nowhere near as good this year as they were last year. And I love the way sioux fans look down on SDSU like their not worthy, did you not squeak a win out in the last seconds over them? If SDSU was so run of the mill in the NCC why couldn't the might sioux stomp'm? A little recent history on the UND-SDSU series. At home, UND has won these games by an average of 27 points per game in the last 6 games in GF. On the road, it's typically been a struggle, so last year was no exception. UND is 5-3 in Brookings since 1990. To the extent SDSU is looked down upon in football, it's because they were typically a middle-of-the-pack NCC team, they didn't win a conference title after the early 60's, and because they had only one playoff appearance as a dII program. In Brookings, they're pretty tough, although Winona probably should have been more competitive in that game than they were. Unfortunately, since that game was the only one for Winona against essentially the equivalent of a fully-funded dII program with a winning record (I know they're technically I-AA but they are at 38 scholarships), and Winona lost pretty convincingly, that adds a certain amount of fuel to the fire for Winona-bashers, of which I am not one. Pull your heads out, you aren't head and shoulder above the rest and your road play proves it. That's certainly true, and I don't think anybody would deny that. But most teams struggle on the road when playing quality competition. See Winona's game at Brookings as Exhibit A. The big difference between UND and Winona is that UND generally has to play 2-3 very tough road games in a season, whereas Winona has maybe one in the non-conference schedule, and really none in conference play. Although Winona gets big power points for winning at Bemidji, I doubt anybody outside of the NSIC would consider that a tough road game. Ditto for playing Concordia, particularly at a neutral site like the Metrodome. Besides the best team in the NCC has two losses and your play them this week. I wish you luck because you'll need it. Obviously we'll find out who's the best team in the NCC on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoHawks! Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 I have an idea. Lets talk about Winona State when they do something. Until they beat a good team. I refuse to talk...good or bad...about Winona State. Did you guys play Rochester Community and Technical College this year? I hear they have a good team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CougarHater1993 Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Who has UND beaten in league play yet? SCSU, no. UNO, not yet, USD, not yet. What didn't Winona prove last year? they should've won at UND and they beat Emporia STate the week before. STart ripping the MIAA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Yeah well UND should've beat GVSU last year and won the NC. It didn't happen though. Should've, would've, could've. If it didn't happen, it shouldn't happend and doesn't matter. UND will beat UNO on saturday and then USD next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Who has UND beaten in league play yet? SCSU, no. UNO, not yet, USD, not yet. What didn't Winona prove last year? they should've won at UND and they beat Emporia STate the week before. STart ripping the MIAA <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What does "should've won" mean? Winona was behind for all but about a minute of that game. If their defense could have come up with a big series late in the game, perhaps they would have won. But they didn't, so they lost. That game was very much like the UND wins over NDSU and UNO. Get a nice lead, go into a shell on offense, let the opponent back in. That was just the style that last year's UND team played. It drove me crazy much of the time, but you can't argue with the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmrg74 Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Winona is not all that great and dont play anyone.....should not even be ranked in top 8 in the region.....sorry its the truth <{POST_SNAPBACK}>As it stands right now, Winona is the only team in the region thats pretty well locked in for a playoff berth save for some Collapse of Red Sox origins. UND, GVSU, UNO, St. Cloud, and Saggy are all scrambing to get in. I would worry more about focusing on getting my own sorry butts into the playoffs before whining about some "lesser" team getting the free pass. BTW, Beat UNO you guys!!!! It helps the both of us out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrior41 Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 UND92,96 - Good breakdown of my post...I can respect that! Good Luck in Omaha, they are really starting to gel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corella Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 As it stands right now, Winona is the only team in the region thats pretty well locked in for a playoff berth save for some Collapse of Red Sox origins. UND, GVSU, UNO, St. Cloud, and Saggy are all scrambing to get in. I would worry more about focusing on getting my own sorry butts into the playoffs before whining about some "lesser" team getting the free pass. BTW, Beat UNO you guys!!!! It helps the both of us out. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Considering that Winona plays CSP at the Metrodome in 2 weeks, I am curious whether a loss there would knock Winona out of the playoff picture. Granted it isn't too likely, but CSP seems to be an extremely hot/cold team that, if they got hot, should give Winona a run. CSP would have all the incentive in the world to pull out all the stops. This scenario sure would help UND if they stumble. Food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmrg74 Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Considering that Winona plays CSP at the Metrodome in 2 weeks, I am curious whether a loss there would knock Winona out of the playoff picture. Granted it isn't too likely, but CSP seems to be an extremely hot/cold team that, if they got hot, should give Winona a run. CSP would have all the incentive in the world to pull out all the stops. This scenario sure would help UND if they stumble. Food for thought. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The main thing there with that would be if it would be enough to knock Winona lower than 10th place in the regional rankings. I'm not so sure that would happen. I would plan on going after the Five spots that are left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamStrait Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Bottom line is that the Sioux need to start showing they can win the tough games on the road. The offense needs to really start to show some improvement, because if they don't, it leaves ZERO margin of error for the defense, which is just really not fair to those guys. They could have a stellar game with the exception of one or two plays, and the offense just can't pick them up. Case in point: @ SCSU this year. Winona probably doesn't deserve to be a lock at this point, but if the Sioux don't win out and EARN a trip to the playoffs, it won't matter because had they made it, they'd not be going anywhere in them anyway. UND is a fantastic defensive team, probably tops in the country, but their offense to this point has not been good against anything better than poor competition. If they have championship aspiratons, they need to get it going on both sides of the ball and no better time to start than this Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corella Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Pat Sweeney also noted on sports last night that Bowenkamp took a lot of snaps at practice yesterday, and that he would not be suprised at all to see Bowenkamp behind center on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrior41 Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 UND92,96 - Good breakdown of my post...I can respect that! Good Luck in Omaha, they are really starting to gel! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I would say that even if Winona suffers a loss in the last two week they are a lock. Over half the teams still in position to make the play-offs play one another, so 3 or 4 additonal teams will also lose in the next two weeks. Couple that with the "earn entry" thing and I would think they are a lock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Doesn't the silly earned access rule say that if a conference has one team in the regional top ten the conference is guaranteed one of the six playoff slots? For Winona State to not make it at this point would take a series of immaculate misfortunes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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