UND moving up?

[Goon]

After she said that, I found myself thinking about how lucky I have been to have grown up in the upper Midwest where the school systems are nationally noted as amongst the best and not paying too close attention to the game. Sad really, not a joking matter.

One of the Cops in Grand Forks that happens to be from Chicago told me one time that we should wake up every day thank our lucky stars because we live up here. No Kidding. Also the Educational system in the upper mid west is second to none. However, on a more serious note, I wonder if they have ducktober in Mississippi.

[Goon]

Valparaiso.

What State is Valparaiso from

[IowaBison]

Indiana

the point about US News and World Report is that its methodology is completely subjective and even worse changes from year to year

why are alumni contributions given a weight of x and another category given a weight of y, then the next year the weights are changed in order for the rankings to change, if they didn't no one would buy the magazines they'd keep their 1993 edition

[siouxjoy]

Okay, that was snottier than I meant it to be. There are a ton of flaws in calculating any formula (or any sports poll for that matter), but you have to use something to compare schools that are in totally different locations, have different philosophies, face different issues, etc. There are a ton of scandals surrounding the US News rankings, but that's what parents and high school students use when comparing schools, and until that changes USN&WR will continue to be a subjective but well received listing

P.S. I do know what regional accredidation means! NCA

SACS

[siouxjoy]

Part of the reason they changed their formulas was because of complaints.

Selectivity is a huge example. Schools were given better rankings if they were more selective. So, a school could decide to arbitrarily admit less students (even if those students would have been admitted otherwise--they were good students), making them seem more selective , giving them more points and in turn a higher rank. They look really good in the rankings, but really are doing students a disservice by not admitting them simply to "look good"

So the newest formula puts less weight on selectivity. But it still takes it into consideration. You can say that a school has great academics (like UND and NDSU) but if that school doesn't "turn students away" it can be seen as a lesser school. It's a vicious circle.

[IowaBison]

i didn't think you were being snotty at all

with subjective ratings is that you end up with the results you want

my biggest problem with these things is that some kid or his parent read it and think that by going to a "top 25" school they will have a better educational experience than if they went to UND or NDSU and in most cases that simply isn't true

hell, if a kid is a big hockey fan or better yet a hockey player, is there a better place on earth to go to school than UND?

if a kid wants to be a polymer chemist or wants a backdoor way to work for Microsoft, is there a better school than NDSU?

how many kids end up going to Brown, Notre Dame, and the luck because of a perceived quality difference perpetuated by these bogus rankings? unless you're going to harvard, stanford, or the like, i say go to UND or NDSU

[siouxjoy]

I totally agree with you that some people blindly use rankings when choosing a school there are so much more factors to take into consideration.

Even using the discussion about the quality of education in North Dakota vs. other states: UND and NDSU admits a whole lot of students, especially from North Dakota. Does it mean that they let in everyone with a pulse, or that they admit more high quality students because that's what you find more often in this state.

I like how your example about UND refers to hockey and not academics. I would have used an example of: if a student wants to fly for a commercial airline is there a better place than UND, but that's just me.

[IowaBison]

i missed the pilot one, sorry about that

UND and NDSU are selective, just not as much as other institutions

like nearly all other schools, they do have a GPA/ACT grid that they use to determine if a student has a moderate probability of receiving a degree, if they meet this standard they are in

in some regards this standard isn't high enough as attrition is extremely high at both schools, however, the tuition revenue generated by these lackluster students must offset this bad statistic

[Bisonfan1234]

think of Delta State as a Mayville or Valley City State, mississippi has a few more people than north dakota and thus larger schools and a bigger pool of football players to draw from

This is exactly right.

Delta SU, MS Valley SU, and Jackson SU are Valley City State, Mayville State, and Dickinson State.

Mississippi just has more people.

[Ba Ba Canoosh]

[Smoggy]

Selectivity is a huge example. Schools were given better rankings if they were more selective. So, a school could decide to arbitrarily admit less students (even if those students would have been admitted otherwise--they were good students), making them seem more selective , giving them more points and in turn a higher rank. They look really good in the rankings, but really are doing students a disservice by not admitting them simply to "look good"

Isn't this what Minnesota did?

[The Sicatoka]

your facilities are only going to get older ...

Is there a way to make them get younger?

For the record:

Football: Alerus Center, opened August 2001

Mens and Womens Hockey: Ralph Engelstad Arena, opened October 2001

Mens and Womens Basketball: Betty Engelstad Sioux Center, opened August 2004

Volleyball: Betty Engelstad Sioux Center, opened August 2004

Soccer (locker rooms): Betty Engelstad Sioux Center, opened August 2004

Wellness Center: under construction, scheduled to open in August 2006.

And who knows what else may be announced in coming days. There's this big space over where hockey and football used to play ....

[Bisonfan1234]

Is there a way to make them get younger?

For the record:

Football: Alerus Center, opened August 2001

Mens and Womens Hockey: Ralph Engelstad Arena, opened October 2001

Mens and Womens Basketball: Betty Engelstad Sioux Center, opened August 2004

Volleyball: Betty Engelstad Sioux Center, opened August 2004

Soccer (locker rooms): Betty Engelstad Sioux Center, opened August 2004

Wellness Center: under construction, scheduled to open in August 2006.

And who knows what else may be announced in coming days. There's this big space over where hockey and football used to play ....

Indoor football facility?

Why when you already have the Alerus? Stick a couple practice feilds over there, put a weight room and meeting rooms in it and practice out of the lockers already there.

[dakotadan]

Who said anything about building a new football stadium? UND could use a new indoor track facility however. If they take down the old engelstad, they could build a new indoor facility attached to the east side of memorial stadium. And with the new wellness center the hyslop could eventually either be converted or torn down for more classroom space or whatever is needed. However, as I always say, when I am rich I am going to be building UND a new 75,001 seat football stadium on campus.

[Bisonfan1234]

I also said nothing about a stadium.

Many DI teams have an indoor practice facility which is nothing more than a covered practice field in case of bad weather.

[bigmrg74]

*My God, I never thought I would see this, BF1234 putting together a post that I would agree with.*

Lots of big DI-A teams do have indoor practice fields. I went to a football camp in HS at Michigan, and they got one thats 2 fields under one roof. Very nice. There is also a rumor around here at GVSU that they are looking to put one in as well, and might be also used for indoor track as well. I'm sure you guys could do the same if needed. I'm still bit of a purists about playing out in the rain, the mud and the blood, but sometimes its just not fun to practice in those conditions, or safe with thunderstorms and such.

[WYOBISONMAN]

....i think that the bottom line concensus for most fans of either the Bison or Sioux is that UND will be moving up at some time (Getting back to the original thread). I would have to say that the Sioux missed the boat by not making the Jump with NDSU. I think the Big Sky would have taken an NDSU/UND pair in a heart beat. Built in rivalry, solid D2 programs, 75 miles apart....pretty appealing. Not that the SDSU/ NDSU pair isn't appealing too, but I think the NDSU/UND paring would have offered more....

[PCM]

I would have to say that the Sioux missed the boat by not making the Jump with NDSU.

Perhaps this would have had a better chance of happening if NDSU had shown a willingness to work with UND on the issue and make the move when it was most advantageous to both schools.

[WYOBISONMAN]

It seemed that NDSU was always willing to work with UND, Just that RT and company were dead set against it....I would have liked to see the whole NCC move up.

[ScottM]

I totally agree with you that some people blindly use rankings when choosing a school there are so much more factors to take into consideration.

I agree. "I went where they had women that didn't walk on four legs and chew tobacco, that's why I chose the University of North Dakota!" /end alumni promo

Wonder what would have happened if I had gone to Michigan ...

[Bisonfan1234]

It seemed that NDSU was always willing to work with UND, Just that RT and company were dead set against it....I would have liked to see the whole NCC move up.

The whole NCC isn't capable.

USD, Augi, SCSU, MSUM, UMD, and UNO would all have a very hard time moving up financially. SDSU may even struggle for a while.

[PCM]

Just that RT and company were dead set against it.

Based on my converstations with Thomas, this simply isn't true.

[The Sicatoka]

BF1234 got another one correct: SCSU, MSU-Mankato, and UM-Duluth don't have the dollars and the MN legislature's first priority is and will always be "Goldie". USD always seems to be in financial strife. And didn't they just cut some athletic program? Augie has the advantage of being in Sioux Falls but has the disadvantage of being private (and without a big sugar daddy). UN-O will always be second fiddle to "Big Red" in Lincoln (see "Goldie" scenario above).

SDSU had better hope for some BB success to keep interest high (and donations coming). Like SDSU, NDSU needs football success for their cashflow.

None of them really have complete packages of DI facilities. (I'm not saying Frost or FargoDome are bad. I'm saying each could use another quality facility in the other sport.)

As far as the Big Sky, didn't they call for "letters of interest"? All that takes is letterhead and a stamp, right?

What'd NDSU's Carr Report say again?

"The Consultants recommend that the University begin the transition process, but only after it has achieved the following: Secure an acceptable conference membership before making the decision to reclassify to I-AA."

[IowaBison]

Is there a way to make them get younger?

For the record:

Football: Alerus Center, opened August 2001

Mens and Womens Hockey: Ralph Engelstad Arena, opened October 2001

Mens and Womens Basketball: Betty Engelstad Sioux Center, opened August 2004

Volleyball: Betty Engelstad Sioux Center, opened August 2004

Soccer (locker rooms): Betty Engelstad Sioux Center, opened August 2004

Wellness Center: under construction, scheduled to open in August 2006.

And who knows what else may be announced in coming days. There's this big space over where hockey and football used to play ....

that's exactly what i meant,

make the most out of your facilities while they are new

in ten years they will go from being breath-taking to just nice

[IowaBison]

Sickatocka,

If you want UND to wait for a guaranteed conference home before moving up, you may be waiting for a very long time (your reference to the Carr Report)

The Big Sky will be full, hopefully with NDSU as a member, and aligned for the next ten years at least

You're not quite ready for the WAC or Mountain West

You've got the Missouri Valley, which probably doesn't want the travel or the poor men's basketball program, so check them off the list

So you're left with the Mid-Con! And I doubt that they'll guarantee you a spot either

Looks like your home will be the NCC for eternity with the Conference First attitude