Cratter Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 The Forum just does not let it rest do they. NDSU is about to play their first Division IAA game and they are writing articles about how UND will move up in the future?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
updm002 Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 I always assumed that the key component in UND's decision to move would be if ndsu/sdsu are successful in their move to d1. It will take at least five years to determine that and probably longer. Also, most (not all) schools that do make the move aren't all that terribly successful. So if ndsu/sdsu aren't terribly successful why make the move to join in their misery. Now in the unlikely event that they are successful then I can understand a move ...... Success to me is defined as finding an established league and competing well in it. Not necessarily winning it but being in the middle somewhere. Also, making your own league of far flung independents doesn't qualify either as a success. I know there are other criteria for success but from a fan's perspective those are the 2 most important to me. Academic considerations are for the professorial types to ponder. The thing I have always wondered is why they don't have 1aa for all sports and not just fb. It would seem that the bottom feeding 100-150 in d1 really belong in a 1aa bb division if they would ever bother to create one. Being a UNO fan I would love to be in an all 1aa division but the way it is now to go d1 in all sports but fb would be problematic in a lot of sports. FB would be fine but we would get killed in a lot of other sports like wrestling, basketball,baseball, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisonfan1234 Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 I always assumed that the key component in UND's decision to move would be if ndsu/sdsu are successful in their move to d1. It will take at least five years to determine that and probably longer. Also, most (not all) schools that do make the move aren't all that terribly successful. So if ndsu/sdsu aren't terribly successful why make the move to join in their misery. Now in the unlikely event that they are successful then I can understand a move ...... Success to me is defined as finding an established league and competing well in it. Not necessarily winning it but being in the middle somewhere. Also, making your own league of far flung independents doesn't qualify either as a success. I know there are other criteria for success but from a fan's perspective those are the 2 most important to me. Academic considerations are for the professorial types to ponder. The thing I have always wondered is why they don't have 1aa for all sports and not just fb. It would seem that the bottom feeding 100-150 in d1 really belong in a 1aa bb division if they would ever bother to create one. Being a UNO fan I would love to be in an all 1aa division but the way it is now to go d1 in all sports but fb would be problematic in a lot of sports. FB would be fine but we would get killed in a lot of other sports like wrestling, basketball,baseball, etc So if NDSU and SDSU joinied the Big Sky and NDSU won it in FB and SDSU in BB, would you consider that a success? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 So if NDSU and SDSU joinied the Big Sky and NDSU won it in FB and SDSU in BB, would you consider that a success? SDSU will never win the NCAA DI basketball tourney. Maybe they'll make the Big Dance one year and knock off Wake Forrest (who was the 7th qualifier from the ACC), but forget about winning it all. Thus, my problem with going DI. In DI all that matters is winning your conference (for those DIAA schools), because you're going to struggle winning national titles. Maybe one day you can find a niche sport to get great at. i.e. NDSU women's softball. But then you have to face the likes of Arizona. Gee, I wonder who'll have better players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansel Posted August 28, 2004 Author Share Posted August 28, 2004 Maybe one day you can find a niche sport to get great at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisonfan1234 Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 Although it's nice to think of NDSU winning the DIAA title in FB, what I meant was NDSU winning the Big Sky in FB and SDSU winning the Big Sky in BB. If those happen, wouldn't that success warrent the moving up of UND? I realized that after I posted, but then I looked at my post again and realized that it still applied. Yes, I think if they won the conference in their first year it's a success. In the following years you better make some noise in the playoffs. Though, I don't think it's as big of a gap from conference play to national tourney play in FB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
updm002 Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 It is easy from the stands to speculate on sdsu/ndsu winning the bsc in football or basketball when in fact they aren't even in the conference and haven't even played a game yet. I hope they get in bc I can go to some games occasionally in brookings but travel is an issue and will probably be a bigger issue in the future with the rising cost of fuel. It is hard to not think that about 1000 miles from your nearest competitor isn't going to be a big issue with that conference. The first year for no colorado was no big success in their non fb sports but maybe the dakotas will do better. Actually they can't do much worse. I know basketball coaches don't have a vote but if I were a bb coach in the bsc I would vote a big NO for going to the dakotas every january or february for the rest of my life. Maybe there aren't any other schools that are interested in going to the bsc but if there are and they were closer and had a less brutal winter climate I would want to go there instead if i were in the current bsc. But having said that I hope the dakotas get in so I can see some games in a neat conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 It is easy from the stands to speculate on sdsu/ndsu winning the bsc in football or basketball when in fact they aren't even in the conference and haven't even played a game yet. I hope they get in bc I can go to some games occasionally in brookings but travel is an issue and will probably be a bigger issue in the future with the rising cost of fuel. It is hard to not think that about 1000 miles from your nearest competitor isn't going to be a big issue with that conference. The first year for no colorado was no big success in their non fb sports but maybe the dakotas will do better. Actually they can't do much worse. I know basketball coaches don't have a vote but if I were a bb coach in the bsc I would vote a big NO for going to the dakotas every january or february for the rest of my life. Maybe there aren't any other schools that are interested in going to the bsc but if there are and they were closer and had a less brutal winter climate I would want to go there instead if i were in the current bsc. But having said that I hope the dakotas get in so I can see some games in a neat conference. Wow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansel Posted August 28, 2004 Author Share Posted August 28, 2004 Academic considerations are for the professorial types to ponder. from the Valparaiso head coach "Division II, except for (the North Central Conference) has a reputation for good football but renegade outfits and low academics. Division I has a better perception as far as recruiting." -note he says outside the NCC- IMO most of the NCC teams don't fit into DII anymore http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm...§ion=Sports Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakotadan Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 If NDSU and SDSU has any success in any conference (hopefully the bsc) UND better lay out a five year plan immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corella Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 If NDSU and SDSU has any success in any conference (hopefully the bsc) UND better lay out a five year plan immediately. If SDSU, the football juggernaut, is even so much as competitive they had better get things moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaBison Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 why in god's name should UND care how NDSU/SDSU do? us getting into the big sky has nothing to do with UND us winning or losing has nothing to do with UND UND has decided upon a wait and see attitude, wait and see what? if you're going to go, go now, every day you wait you lose media exposure, your buildings get older, and the NCC gets worse and worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 why in god's name should UND care how NDSU/SDSU do? us getting into the big sky has nothing to do with UND us winning or losing has nothing to do with UND UND has decided upon a wait and see attitude, wait and see what? if you're going to go, go now, every day you wait you lose media exposure, your buildings get older, and the NCC gets worse and worse As it pertains to UND going division I or not, I think the fortunes, both competitively and financially, of UNC, SDSU and NDSU are very germane to the issue. Throwing football out of the equation, since I have no doubt that ANY strong dII program would do fine in I-AA with a full or nearly full complement of scholarships, if the aforementioned schools really struggle in basketball, etc., have difficulty getting home games against dI opponents and in particular, can't find a conference, then obviously it would or should make UND think twice about moving to dI across the board. If UND simply announced that it was going dI, then it would be doing the same thing that NDSU and SDSU did--disregarding the recommendation of its consultant that a conference should be lined up BEFORE a move is made. To simply dismiss this advice as being unrealistic would be to claim that Carr didn't know what it was talking about, and I don't believe that's true. It's a bit risky to simply follow that part of the advice that supports what you wanted to hear in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaBison Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 those are good points, but what i was hoping to get at is that in many respects the forces that affect NDSU/SDSU are different than those that affect UND now and in the future you need to decide if YOUR alumni are willing to pony up some bucks, you need to know if YOUR fans will watch a sub .500 team get beaten up by the big boys, you need to know if YOUR team will be accepted by an established conference the correlation between what happens to us and the rabbits is weak at best, and are strongly affected by greater forces, especially as time passes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennonIsTheMan Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 why in god's name should UND care how NDSU/SDSU do? us getting into the big sky has nothing to do with UND us winning or losing has nothing to do with UND UND has decided upon a wait and see attitude, wait and see what? if you're going to go, go now, every day you wait you lose media exposure, your buildings get older, and the NCC gets worse and worse IowaBison, UND will make a decision on whether or not we will move when we deem it necessary, and when it is determined it is in the best interest of the school. And if a decision is made to move up, then we will continue the series and continue the consistent dominance over your program that we have demonstrated for the last 12 years, even with the scholarship differences. I'm very confident that if and when UND decides to move up, we will be able to compete at "ndsu's level" instantly without missing a beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisonfan1234 Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 As far as the people of ND are concerned, I think they want to see NDSU and UND compete once again. Perhaps that will happen as a Big Sky Conference game, someday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaBison Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 IowaBison, UND will make a decision on whether or not we will move when we deem it necessary, and when it is determined it is in the best interest of the school. And if a decision is made to move up, then we will continue the series and continue the consistent dominance over your program that we have demonstrated for the last 12 years, even with the scholarship differences. I'm very confident that if and when UND decides to move up, we will be able to compete at "ndsu's level" instantly without missing a beat. i agree with the first part of your post, that is point i've been trying to make, all this NDSU/SDSU success doesn't have much to do with the sioux i strongly disagree with your ability to compete with NDSU without missing a beat comment, believe it or not there is a difference between DI and D2 if NDSU does what it has to in order to be competitive the next few years, UND and NDSU will end up being different caliber teams i like where UND is at, they can be a great D2 school with a great hockey program, or they can be a good DI school with a great hockey program Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennonIsTheMan Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 i agree with the first part of your post, that is point i've been trying to make, all this NDSU/SDSU success doesn't have much to do with the sioux i strongly disagree with your ability to compete with NDSU without missing a beat comment, believe it or not there is a difference between DI and D2 if NDSU does what it has to in order to be competitive the next few years, UND and NDSU will end up being different caliber teams i like where UND is at, they can be a great D2 school with a great hockey program, or they can be a good DI school with a great hockey program Im talking about not missing a beat with ndsu in football. And I believe I am correct in that assumption. If ndsu can go to Montana and beat them with the scholarship differential, AT MONTANA, then why is it that you think UND wouldnt be able to do the same to ndsu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaBison Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 because you only need to be as good as the best D2 program which is going to be lower standard as time goes on ndsu needs to meet a higher standard year after year there is a great chart somewhere on bisonville that demonstrates this to make matters worse, UND football is going to get less and less attention you have to compete with the your hockey, your betty housed teams, and the bison you also need to keep Coach Lennon, but that's a different story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennonIsTheMan Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 because you only need to be as good as the best D2 program which is going to be lower standard as time goes on ndsu needs to meet a higher standard year after year there is a great chart somewhere on bisonville that demonstrates this to make matters worse, UND football is going to get less and less attention you have to compete with the your hockey, your betty housed teams, and the bison you also need to keep Coach Lennon, but that's a different story i respectfully and whole-heartedly disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 ndsu needs to meet a higher standard year after year Ah yes, that brutal standard demonstrated by Valpo Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Ah yes, that brutal standard demonstrated by Valpo Saturday. That's nothin'. Wait until they take on those ogres from Nicholls State ... that'll be a "battle royale". Not to mention those playing those killers from Josef's ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaBison Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 i certainly don't see nicholls state on your guys' schedule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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