Grand Forks Sales Tax Vote

[SIOUXFAN97]

14 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

You realize the city and the federal government operate on separate budgets, right? 

yes...but the less u send to washington the more you have for your local streets and new water treatment plants...it's the idea of people that claim they can't afford to feed themselves but have a 20k suv in the parking lot.

[homer]

In today’s day and age not having an updated infrastructure will not be to attractive for new business.  You refuse to spend, you will keep losing companies looking your way   This impacts a community.  Like it or not, Grand Forks is competing with Fargo, Duluth, Sioux Falls and others for companies and they aren’t coming somewhere that is content having !@#!$ roads and infrastructure.  

To the point I made a few days ago, the only thing holding back Grand Forks is Grand Forks.  

[homer]

4 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

yes...the less u send to washington the more you have for your local streets...it's the idea of people that claim they can't afford to feed themselves but have a 20k suv in the parking lot.

This doesn’t really apply here.   

[SIOUXFAN97]

23 minutes ago, homer said:

This doesn’t really apply here.   

big government applies to city, county, state, and federal...so yes it does apply.

[fightingsioux4life]

1 hour ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

big government applies to city, county, state, and federal...so yes it does apply.

If you think roads and bridges are a want and not a need.....you just might be a libertarian. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

1 hour ago, fightingsioux4life said:

If you think roads and bridges are a want and not a need.....you just might be a libertarian. 

guilty as charged

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

Two thoughts about responsible use of public funds for "roads and bridges":

1.  Improving 42nd to go under/over the rail line is a luxury, not a necessity.  I've waited for those trains, and while a nuisance, it's never been a life or death situation.  There are alternate routes.  Maybe coordinating schedules with BNSF would be a good start.  Heck, I'd rather invest public funds to relocate the entire yard a few miles west of town.  THAT would be a re-development game changer for Grand Forks.

2.  I-29 interchanges should be paid for by the landowners who stand to benefit the most.  As the I-29 corridor is developed to the south, commercial and retail frontage properties will skyrocket in value.  The new interchange will spawn gas stations, convenience stores, restaurants, strip malls, and even single- and multi-family residential development.  Why give those landowners and developers a free ride?  The same analysis applies to the mythical bridge crossing the Red, and we can share half of that with Minnesota anyway.

I would prefer not to give the City a blank check for either project.

[Milford torgerson]

5 hours ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

yes...but the less u send to washington the more you have for your local streets and new water treatment plants...it's the idea of people that claim they can't afford to feed themselves but have a 20k suv in the parking lot.

Try at least a 40k suv

[Cratter]

2 hours ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

Two thoughts about responsible use of public funds for "roads and bridges":

1.  Improving 42nd to go under/over the rail line is a luxury, not a necessity.  I've waited for those trains, and while a nuisance, it's never been a life or death situation.  There are alternate routes.  Maybe coordinating schedules with BNSF would be a good start.  Heck, I'd rather invest public funds to relocate the entire yard a few miles west of town.  THAT would be a re-development game changer for Grand Forks.

Here's the thing though, a over/underpass would have a greater long term economic impact to the city than the cost of the infrastructure. The train crosses a lot more and for a greater amount of time than most people realize, especially on a Friday and Saturday night, impacting hundreds (likely thousands) of people a day. They either sit and wait burning gas or go around it on the Interstate/Columbia Road overpass. Taking both time and money out of the citizens of Grand Forks everyday. The amount of money that could be in the pockets of citizens and instead went to gas in the last decade is likely in the millions.

And it'll only get worse as more student orientated housing is built on 42nd.

 

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

17 hours ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

when we're talking about a 100 bucks here and there...here's an idea....

Send some of the city employees to hugo's to watch each checkout aisle...every person that uses an EBT for their donuts, potato chips, sour cream, and mountain dew get followed outside...anyone that used their EBT that walks up to a car that is 2010 or newer gets their EBT card taken away on the spot and given a city bus map....MILLIONS saved...Next question?

This seems practical 

No need for a tax increase. Let's just stalk people at Hugo's, we'll collect the money in a couple weeks!

It goes to the federal government you say? I bet they'll give it right back to us to pay for our roads!

[SIOUXFAN97]

1 hour ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

This seems practical 

No need for a tax increase. Let's just stalk people at Hugo's, we'll collect the money in a couple weeks!

It goes to the federal government you say? I bet they'll give it right back to us to pay for our roads!

paying for other people's food because they can't "afford" to but they have a 2012 chevy impala and a 110 cell phone plan...and a pocket full of camel 100's...that seems really practical?

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

16 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

paying for other people's food because they can't "afford" to but they have a 2012 chevy impala and a 110 cell phone plan...and a pocket full of camel 100's...that seems really practical?

You're moving the goal posts, I never said any of those things.

[SIOUXFAN97]

i guess my point is ...instead of raising taxes how about trimming the fat...CF county paid out over 7million in snap benefits last year...get that down to 2million and there you go..a nice payment for our water plant.  simple.

[UNDBIZ]

10 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

i guess my point is ...instead of raising taxes how about trimming the fat...CF county paid out over 7million in snap benefits last year...get that down to 2million and there you go..a nice payment for our water plant.  simple.

That's federal money, not state, county, or city money.  There are different pots of money, with different sources, which can't necessarily just be used for roads or a water treatment plant or whatever.  

[fightingsioux4life]

10 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

i guess my point is ...instead of raising taxes how about trimming the fat...CF county paid out over 7million in snap benefits last year...get that down to 2million and there you go..a nice payment for our water plant.  simple.

I suppose we could trim garbage pickup from every week to every other week? That would save some serious cash. But I can bet you a lot of the no voters today will be the first to b!tch and moan about it. Libertarianism is a fantasy-land where everything is magically solved by a non-existent "free market" without the "theft" of taxation.

If you want stuff, you have to pay for it. If the Feds and State are paying less, then we have to pay more locally. #mathisbeautiful

[fightingsioux4life]

13 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

i guess my point is ...instead of raising taxes how about trimming the fat...CF county paid out over 7million in snap benefits last year...get that down to 2million and there you go..a nice payment for our water plant.  simple.

That right there is the biggest flaw in libertarianism. Nothing in our modern, complex world is "simple". If you want "simple", you need to reset society back to what it was in 1789 and that ain't happening. #pipedreams

[UNDBIZ]

2 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

That right there is the biggest flaw in libertarianism. Nothing in our modern, complex world is "simple". If you want "simple", you need to reset society back to what it was in 1789 and that ain't happening. #pipedreams

You seem to think all libertarians are dumb people who don't understand government.  I consider myself to be quite libertarian.  IMO, we're not all unreasonable crackpots.

[SIOUXFAN97]

4 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

That's federal money, not state, county, or city money.  There are different pots of money, with different sources, which can't necessarily just be used for roads or a water treatment plant or whatever.  

i understand that...trim the fat at each level...cut back on these stupid programs that are totally abused that grow and grow every year. it's not a tax problem...it's a SPENDING PROBLEM

[SIOUXFAN97]

8 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

I suppose we could trim garbage pickup from every week to every other week? That would save some serious cash. But I can bet you a lot of the no voters today will be the first to b!tch and moan about it. Libertarianism is a fantasy-land where everything is magically solved by a non-existent "free market" without the "theft" of EXCESSIVE taxation.

If you want stuff, you have to pay for it. If the Feds and State are paying less, then we have to pay more locally. #mathisbeautiful

 

[UNDBIZ]

2 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

i understand that...trim the fat at each level...cut back on these stupid programs that are totally abused that grow and grow every year. it's not a tax problem...it's a SPENDING PROBLEM

Ok, then quit complaining about SNAP when talking about the city budget.  SNAP abuse is a separate issue.

[fightingsioux4life]

20 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

You seem to think all libertarians are dumb people who don't understand government.  I consider myself to be quite libertarian.  IMO, we're not all unreasonable crackpots.

I don't believe I called you "dumb" or a "crackpot". I was simply pointing out (pardon the pun) that a simplistic philosophy like libertarianism is difficult to apply to a complex world.

[SIOUXFAN97]

6 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

I don't believe I called you "dumb" or a "crackpot". I was simply pointing out (pardon the pun) that a simplistic philosophy like libertarianism is difficult to apply to a complex world.

seems to be working just fine in Estonia?

[SIOUXFAN97]

21 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Ok, then quit complaining about SNAP when talking about the city budget.  SNAP abuse is a separate issue.

do you think that those peole that abuse SNAP might also be abusing other city, county, state, and federal programs?

[jdub27]

13 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

I don't believe I called you "dumb" or a "crackpot". I was simply pointing out (pardon the pun) that a simplistic philosophy like libertarianism is difficult to apply to a complex world.

Without getting too deep into politics, the simplistic philosophy on the other end of the political spectrum is just as laughable when trying to apply it in the real world.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

25 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Ok, then quit complaining about SNAP when talking about the city budget.  SNAP abuse is a separate issue.

 

2 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

do you think that those peole that abuse SNAP might also be abusing other city, county, state, and federal programs?

I asked you for a solution to pay for infrastructure in Grand Forks(which is what this entire thread is about). You provided a very specific and hilarious way to recoup money for a federal program that would not fund Grand Forks' infrastructure. I think UNDBIZ has a valid request.