Coach Jones?

[UND92,96]

Of course. The fact that they got the jump cannot be overstated. Ask USD fans.

 

Some weird things happened during the transition. SDSU went from being a power in dII, to being really bad for several years. They finally recovered when Wolters was signed. NDSU went from being largely irrelevant as a dII program, to suddenly becoming strong. Actually, NDSU men's basketball and SDSU football have a lot in common in that regard.

[darell1976]

Yes the goal last year was to win the BSC and once again a healthy Brekke all year and then Webb and Schuler totally out of the championship game was devastating. I don't think all these injuries is a fault of Jones or an excuse, just a fact that when 2 or 3 of your top 6 players are out, you have a serious issue to overcome. Then in the CIT you again had Webb, Schuler and Nash out so you can't even consider this as a major loss. Let's see Bubba win with 1/3 of his top players out, wont happen. A very dark black cloud hung over last years team for the entire year and it all started when Brekke could not play at all and yet they found themselves one game away from the dance. Only Weber and Montana has done better than UND the last 2 years and they are the big names in this conference year end and year out so I'd say we've done OK our first 2 years.

Bubba had to pull a redshirt off his 4th string QB because the first 2 went down with injury and guess what he won with him. That's where your bench needs to step up if someone gets hurt, and a lot of that is coaching. If you don't have a productive bench you don't have much of a team.

[darell1976]

Some weird things happened during the transition. SDSU went from being a power in dII, to being really bad for several years. They finally recovered when Wolters was signed. NDSU went from being largely irrelevant as a dII program, to suddenly becoming strong. Actually, NDSU men's basketball and SDSU football have a lot in common in that regard.

With Miles and Phillips NDSU turned out great teams from beating Wisconsin to going to the dance right away to beating Oklahoma in the dance last year, and look where those two ended up in Nebraska and Ohio. Jones would be lucky if Crookston hired him.

[zonadub]

 Jones is the lowest paid HC. Mens BBALL  in the Big Sky.  His staff is probably at the bottom also and looking for better paying gigs.  My understanding is that UND has told Jones that his low pay is a function of budget consistraints and that an extra measure of job security is afforded to him in lieu of $$$....  Jones picked up a 3 year extension in 2013 after a career conference coaching record of 36-43.  The AD knows that UND has been very competitive in the Big Sky ,and since mens BB is a lower profile sport at UND  Jones provides a competitive team at a bargain price.   Jones is nowhere close to being fired.  If the team is mid pack Big Sky next season Jones will get another extension .

Unfortunately, for Jones, UND is a hockey first, football second and basketball (at least) third school, and maybe even fourth behind women's bb. While places like Montana and NDSU are football first schools, at least basketball is the number 1 winter sport. If you put yourself in Faison's place, what is the end result? Jones will get to finish out his contract and maybe even get an extension if he can finish well enough to make the BSC tournament this year and top half of the league next year. While fans may not think Jones should stay (and I am not saying he should), the AD probably is satisfied that UND is getting the best bang for the buck in a lower profile sport at the school.

Maybe what UND really needs is a new AD that wants to showcase more than just hockey, with a little football on the side. I don't mean promoting one of the coaches to AD, but go out and get an AD from a successful multi-sport school.

[82SiouxGuy]

Speaking of USD someone mentioned UND's struggles on transition and nickname, if it wasn't for the nickname UND would've entered the SL along side USD even before the BSC was calling for UND and USD to be members. UND became a member of the SL before the BSC called them up for full membership. So cross off nickname as an excuse on Jones' mediocre teams.

Sorry, but I must have missed the press conference where UND was admitted to the Summit.  I do seem to remember press reports of the Summit waiting to talk to UND until the nickname issue was settled.  And I remember other press reports saying that the Big Sky had concerns about UND's membership because of nickname issues.  But I don't have any memory of UND joining the Summit at the same time as USD.

[jdub27]

Yep it's like talking to a wall. Have to learn to stop and walk away. Keep Jones!! CIT or bust!!!

 

Speaking of beating a dead horse:

It got old watching the football team destruct year after year until Bubba came now everyone is excited for game 1, I can't say too many people were that excited for game 1 of another Jones season.

 

 

 

Speaking of USD someone mentioned UND's struggles on transition and nickname, if it wasn't for the nickname UND would've entered the SL along side USD even before the BSC was calling for UND and USD to be members. UND became a member of the SL before the BSC called them up for full membership. So cross off nickname as an excuse on Jones' mediocre teams.

 This is false.

[UND92,96]

Unfortunately, for Jones, UND is a hockey first, football second and basketball (at least) third school, and maybe even fourth behind women's bb. While places like Montana and NDSU are football first schools, at least basketball is the number 1 winter sport. If you put yourself in Faison's place, what is the end result? Jones will get to finish out his contract and maybe even get an extension if he can finish well enough to make the BSC tournament this year and top half of the league next year. While fans may not think Jones should stay (and I am not saying he should), the AD probably is satisfied that UND is getting the best bang for the buck in a lower profile sport at the school.

Maybe what UND really needs is a new AD that wants to showcase more than just hockey, with a little football on the side. I don't mean promoting one of the coaches to AD, but go out and get an AD from a successful multi-sport school.

 

I think UND will have a new a.d. within two to two and half years. Faison is under contract through June of 2017, and at his age I kind of doubt he's interested in working beyond that.

[darell1976]

Sorry, but I must have missed the press conference where UND was admitted to the Summit.  I do seem to remember press reports of the Summit waiting to talk to UND until the nickname issue was settled.  And I remember other press reports saying that the Big Sky had concerns about UND's membership because of nickname issues.  But I don't have any memory of UND joining the Summit at the same time as USD.

http://www.wday.com/content/summit-official-says-und-pushed-early-nickname-resolution-ad-faison-responds

 

UND and the Summit League first started having serious membership conversations in 2009 when the Summit said it would make a site visit to the University of South Dakota, but not UND. At the time, Douple was quoted as saying the Summit would not visit UND "until the logo issue is resolved one way or another."

 

My point was if it wasn't for the nickname we would have been SL members not BSC members, so that nickname issue isn't really an excuse on Jones' mediocre teams. But Douple messed it up when he wanted the nickname issue a done deal before the 11-30-10 deadline and that is where it was a blessing because UND got a chance at full membership in the BSC.

[darell1976]

Sorry, but I must have missed the press conference where UND was admitted to the Summit.  I do seem to remember press reports of the Summit waiting to talk to UND until the nickname issue was settled.  And I remember other press reports saying that the Big Sky had concerns about UND's membership because of nickname issues.  But I don't have any memory of UND joining the Summit at the same time as USD.

"UND became a member of the SL before the BSC called them up for full membership. "

 

I meant USD in my second to last sentence.

[darell1976]

Unfortunately, for Jones, UND is a hockey first, football second and basketball (at least) third school, and maybe even fourth behind women's bb. While places like Montana and NDSU are football first schools, at least basketball is the number 1 winter sport. If you put yourself in Faison's place, what is the end result? Jones will get to finish out his contract and maybe even get an extension if he can finish well enough to make the BSC tournament this year and top half of the league next year. While fans may not think Jones should stay (and I am not saying he should), the AD probably is satisfied that UND is getting the best bang for the buck in a lower profile sport at the school.

Maybe what UND really needs is a new AD that wants to showcase more than just hockey, with a little football on the side. I don't mean promoting one of the coaches to AD, but go out and get an AD from a successful multi-sport school.

I think Faison showcases more than just hockey. He got more money for football coaches not to mention new video boards and turf in the Alerus, he got UND into the Big Sky conference and he helped get funding on that big building to the east of Memorial Stadium. He has done a lot not to mention going through the nickname issue that the hockey only crowd keeps throwing that around instead of picking one and moving on. I think overall he has done a good job. Isn't Jones the only head coach leftover from DII?

[82SiouxGuy]

http://www.wday.com/content/summit-official-says-und-pushed-early-nickname-resolution-ad-faison-responds

 

My point was if it wasn't for the nickname we would have been SL members not BSC members, so that nickname issue isn't really an excuse on Jones' mediocre teams. But Douple messed it up when he wanted the nickname issue a done deal before the 11-30-10 deadline and that is where it was a blessing because UND got a chance at full membership in the BSC.

 

 

"UND became a member of the SL before the BSC called them up for full membership. "

 

I meant USD in my second to last sentence.

UND and Jones still had to deal with the nickname issue in the real world.  Because of the nickname issue, UND didn't have a conference home until the Big Sky, and that was at least somewhat in doubt because of the nickname.  Recruiters from other schools still used that against UND while recruiting athletes.  Not having a real DI conference home especially hurt in basketball where the better players had 300+ other schools to look at.  And whether USD had a home in the Summit or not had absolutely nothing to do with UND dealing with a nickname issue.  Your point is meaningless.

[jdub27]

And all this is after a win...yikes.

[darell1976]

UND and Jones still had to deal with the nickname issue in the real world.  Because of the nickname issue, UND didn't have a conference home until the Big Sky, and that was at least somewhat in doubt because of the nickname.  Recruiters from other schools still used that against UND while recruiting athletes.  Not having a real DI conference home especially hurt in basketball where the better players had 300+ other schools to look at.  And whether USD had a home in the Summit or not had absolutely nothing to do with UND dealing with a nickname issue.  Your point is meaningless.

On May 14, 2009, the North Dakota State Board of Higher Education approved a motion directing UND to retire “Fighting Sioux” nickname and logo, effective October 1, 2009, with full retirement to be completed no later than August 1, 2010. This directive was to be suspended, if, prior to October 1, 2009, the Standing Rock Sioux tribe and the Spirit Lake Sioux tribe gave namesake approval consistent with the terms of the Settlement Agreement. After extending the deadline for meeting this condition once, to November 30, 2009, the Board on April 8, 2010, unconditionally ordered UND to retire the Fighting Sioux nickname at the end of the 2010–11 season.^[12]

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_North_Dakota_athletics#Retirement_of_.22Fighting_Sioux.22

 

USD joined the SL in April 2009, you don't think UND would've joined with USD if the bolded part was allowed to happen without no stupid state law (which didn't happen until 2011).

[darell1976]

And all this is after a win...yikes.

More like after this:  

 

Posted Yesterday, 10:35 PM

Only confirms Jones needs to go, even with this win. 

No adjustments, horrible defense, and just bad leadership/situational awareness. Just like the football/Mussman situation, Jones just isn't head coaching material. 

 

[sioux2013]

And all this is after a win...yikes.

That's good.  No telling where this topic could have gone if we had lost.  Odds are we will find out after tomorrow.

[ArtVandalay]

I've said it before and I will say it again. Facts don't lie. Scott Nagy's first 6 years in D1 he was 60-119. Brian Jones first 6 years he was 93-98. This IS an apples to apples comparison. Scott Nagy is now widely regarded as a top low/mid major coach. In the final analysis - this is the type of measurement that should be used. NDSU transition may have been better but before you drag this program through the mud - understand the perspective.

[82SiouxGuy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_North_Dakota_athletics#Retirement_of_.22Fighting_Sioux.22

 

USD joined the SL in April 2009, you don't think UND would've joined with USD if the bolded part was allowed to happen without no stupid state law (which didn't happen until 2011).

It doesn't matter what would have or could have happened.  The reality is that the nickname issue dragged on for several years.  It is still going on.  It affected UND's league membership, which affected recruiting.  High school athletes aren't going to make their school decisions based on what should have happened, they make their decisions based on their impression of what is happening.  UND didn't join the Summit.  UND didn't find a home until after USD, and membership in the Big Sky was still somewhat a question mark until the name was dropped.  Players made their school decisions based on their impressions on those facts, not on your stupid assertion that they should have had a place in the Summit at the same time as USD.  That's how the nickname issue affected recruiting for Jones and for other coaches.

[UND92,96]

I've said it before and I will say it again. Facts don't lie. Scott Nagy's first 6 years in D1 he was 60-119. Brian Jones first 6 years he was 93-98. This IS an apples to apples comparison. Scott Nagy is now widely regarded as a top low/mid major coach. In the final analysis - this is the type of measurement that should be used. NDSU transition may have been better but before you drag this program through the mud - understand the perspective.

 

In the interest of full disclosure, Nagy had a track record of nine years, four NCC titles and a .781 winning percentage at the time SDSU started their transition. I don't pretend to know exactly why they struggled so badly for awhile there, but he clearly had earned a fair amount of slack given that pre-transition record.

[ArtVandalay]

In the interest of full disclosure, Nagy had a track record of nine years, four NCC titles and a .781 winning percentage at the time SDSU started their transition. I don't pretend to know exactly why they struggled so badly for awhile there, but he clearly had earned a fair amount of slack given that pre-transition record.

Sure. Just goes to show how difficult that transition can be.

[UND92,96]

Sure. Just goes to show how difficult that transition can be.

 

It's brutal for many, and less so for others. I don't think there's any way to predict how a given program is going to fare. 20 years ago, who in their right mind would have guessed that perennial NCC middle-of-the-pack programs like UNC and NDSU would have made it to the NCAA tournament early on in division I?

[ArtVandalay]

It's brutal for many, and less so for others. I don't think there's any way to predict how a given program is going to fare. 20 years ago, who in their right mind would have guessed that perennial NCC middle-of-the-pack programs like UNC and NDSU would have made it to the NCAA tournament early on in division I?

No question. Exception. Not the rule however.

[Siouxperfan7]

It doesn't matter what would have or could have happened.  The reality is that the nickname issue dragged on for several years.  It is still going on.  It affected UND's league membership, which affected recruiting.  High school athletes aren't going to make their school decisions based on what should have happened, they make their decisions based on their impression of what is happening.  UND didn't join the Summit.  UND didn't find a home until after USD, and membership in the Big Sky was still somewhat a question mark until the name was dropped.  Players made their school decisions based on their impressions on those facts, not on your stupid assertion that they should have had a place in the Summit at the same time as USD.  That's how the nickname issue affected recruiting for Jones and for other coaches.

 

 

Wait, so was Jones successfull because he finished in the top 3 of the Big Sky his first 2 years and made post season tournaments the last 4 years, or did his teams struggle because of the nickname issue?!   

[darell1976]

It doesn't matter what would have or could have happened. The reality is that the nickname issue dragged on for several years. It is still going on. It affected UND's league membership, which affected recruiting. High school athletes aren't going to make their school decisions based on what should have happened, they make their decisions based on their impression of what is happening. UND didn't join the Summit. UND didn't find a home until after USD, and membership in the Big Sky was still somewhat a question mark until the name was dropped. Players made their school decisions based on their impressions on those facts, not on your stupid assertion that they should have had a place in the Summit at the same time as USD. That's how the nickname issue affected recruiting for Jones and for other coaches.

So Hak going to another Frozen four, Brewster going to the dance, Hardee going to the top of the BSC is all because of coaching while Jones and Muss struggled because of the nickname issue?

[Cratter]

Yeah, hardly any school.....except NDSU.

Theres the #buttbison. Ill be waiting for for 4 consecutive national football championships at UND cause buttbison did that too.

Mark Cuban and Bill Gates are billionaires. They did it means I can too!

[Teeder11]

So Hak going to another Frozen four, Brewster going to the dance, Hardee going to the top of the BSC is all because of coaching while Jones and Muss struggled because of the nickname issue?

 

I'm largely neutral on Jones as I want to see what he can do with his first true crop of nontransition era high school recruits (next two years)... but I think men's hockey at UND and the women's sports are different animals compared to football and men's basketball when it comes to external impacts (i.e. nickname issue) and the reasons those athletes choose or do not choose a school.