Moo U diaries

[Bison06]

7 minutes ago, homer said:

Competed fine against USD last season and they competed fine this season in the MVFC.  We have a couple years to continue to build the oline.  That was due more to lack of talent/depth left by previous staff.  I think we will be fine.  

USD was 4-7 last year, I'm not sure I'd classify that as competing fine.

[Siouxperfan7]

Run the ball, stop the run.  If you can do that you will be successful at every level.  UND is good at both and getting better.  And I don't see that changing.

[Bison06]

Different styles of football put strain on your team in different ways, meaning fatigue and injuries at those positions. Competing one gang against it is very different than playing against it every week. Your offensive line will need more depth and your front seven on defense though very talented will also need more depth of talent IMO.

[Bison06]

4 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Run the ball, stop the run.  If you can do that you will be successful at every level.  UND is good at both and getting better.  And I don't see that changing.

Again, your running game was solid in the big sky, I don't think the way it's currently built would have the same success week in and week out in the MVFC. Maybe I'm putting too much weight in the NDSU/UND game a couple of years ago, but UND had zero push up front and then the very next week ran all over Davis. Adding backs like JJ will help, but having an offensive line that can move a stout defensive front is the biggest weakness I see from UND. 

[UND-1]

18 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

USD was 4-7 last year, I'm not sure I'd classify that as competing fine.

NSDU beat them by 7.  SDSU beat them by 7.  They beat UNI.  They competed just fine.

[homer]

19 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

USD was 4-7 last year, I'm not sure I'd classify that as competing fine.

They lost a lot of 1 score games in the MVFC.  They weren't a doormat despite their record.  

[UND-1]

8 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Again, your running game was solid in the big sky, I don't think the way it's currently built would have the same success week in and week out in the MVFC. Maybe I'm putting too much weight in the NDSU/UND game a couple of years ago, but UND had zero push up front and then the very next week ran all over Davis. Adding backs like JJ will help, but having an offensive line that can move a stout defensive front is the biggest weakness I see from UND. 

The offensive line needs to get better and more consistent to run the ball on anybody, not just the bottom half of the conference.  Luckily for UND, they they are not joining the MVFC for another four years.

[darell1976]

1 hour ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

There is a certain capacity or overall limit for two DI North Dakota college football teams, though. That is, the dynamic is a bit of a balancing act. It would be very difficult for NDSU and UND to both be FCS no. 1 and no. 2 based on regional talent numbers (only so many good players in ND, Minnesota, Wisconsin). For UND to rise up the ranks, NDSU has to come down some. I'm not saying NDSU has to drop out of NC contention, but they won't be nearly as dominant as in years past if UND is doing the right thing. I think that is now the case due to UND's progress and Bubba's recruiting putting up far more resistance than in years past (pre-2014). 2016, and now 2017 NDSU, is far closer to 2016 or 2017 UND than 2013 NDSU was to 2013 UND - kind of confusing but just a comparison of both schools' recent trajectory. 

History proves that when one is down the other is up. Down not meaning in the dumps but barely holding on to a playoff spot, and the other hosting playoff games. 1993-2003 NDSU didn't host one single playoff game (down), UND hosted multiple playoff games and won a NC (up). 1981-1992 NDSU hosted multiple playoff games, and won NC's (up), UND had sub-par seasons and missed the playoffs every year (down). Its true that both can be "up" but most likely with both teams in the same conference things will even out and one team will fall in the historical roller coaster we have. 

[Bison06]

20 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

 

Bubba and his staff have been building UND in the MVFC mold since the first day Bubba arrived as head coach.

UND went from a bottom-of-the-league run defense in 2013 to the top run defense in the BSC in 2014. The same has held true in 2015 and 2016. Eric Schmidt has molded UND's defense to stop the run which will fit the MVFC perfectly. 

UND's deepest unit is their defensive line. They are 2 to 3 deep at each position on the D-line. Also, point out for me a MVFC team that has a deeper offensive backfield than Santiago, Oliveira, Johannesson, and Gordon - I don't think there is one other than maybe NDSU.

The one unit that UND needs to work on is their offensive line. They have been active there, and by 2020, I expect it to be a deep, capable unit. 

I think you and I have different definitions of depth. Having players at the position that can come in is not depth. Depth is the guy backing up the starter isn't a large drop off and in some ways bring a different part to the game that the starter can't. NDSU's d line a couple of years ago was a good example, they had 4 DE that were almost interchangeable, Emmanuel was special, but when he needed a break his back up could provide a serious boost of pass rush that was better than what a tired Kyle Emmanuel could provide.

I realize you have a front seven that can stop the run, but could it still stop the run if 3 starters were on the sideline getting a break on some random 2nd down in the 3rd quarter? Depth isn't just players, depth of real talent is what I'm talking about and I don't believe UND has the depth of talent yet, at certain positions to hold up against the MVFC style of football. I could be wrong, but that's what I see.

By the way, that isn't a slight at UND, it's just the way football teams are built. if NDSU were building its team to win the big sky, I would expect the team to be much deeper in the secondary. Our starters are solid in most cases, but the backups need a lot of work.

[UND-FB-FAN]

29 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Different styles of football put strain on your team in different ways, meaning fatigue and injuries at those positions. Competing one gang against it is very different than playing against it every week. Your offensive line will need more depth and your front seven on defense though very talented will also need more depth of talent IMO.

The front seven on defense is already very deep (deepest on the team, in fact). Youre just over-praising the MVFC now. 2016 national champion came from the CAA, just as a reminder. UND will be just fine. Bubba and Schmidt know what it takes to compete in that league. 

[Bison06]

5 minutes ago, UND-1 said:

NSDU beat them by 7.  SDSU beat them by 7.  They beat UNI.  They competed just fine.

 

4 minutes ago, homer said:

They lost a lot of 1 score games in the MVFC.  They weren't a doormat despite their record.  

I'm not saying they were a doormat, but their record was what it was. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

16 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Again, your running game was solid in the big sky, I don't think the way it's currently built would have the same success week in and week out in the MVFC. Maybe I'm putting too much weight in the NDSU/UND game a couple of years ago, but UND had zero push up front and then the very next week ran all over Davis. Adding backs like JJ will help, but having an offensive line that can move a stout defensive front is the biggest weakness I see from UND. 

You are putting too much emphasis on that early 2015 game. Early season 2015 versus 2016 UND teams were quite different. More depth, more talent, and more cohesiveness moving forward. Record of the two teams (2015 vs 2016) speaks for itself. 

[UND-1]

Just now, Bison06 said:

I think you and I have different definitions of depth. Having players at the position that can come in is not depth. Depth is the guy backing up the starter isn't a large drop off and in some ways bring a different part to the game that the starter can't. NDSU's d line a couple of years ago was a good example, they had 4 DE that were almost interchangeable, Emmanuel was special, but when he needed a break his back up could provide a serious boost of pass rush that was better than what a tired Kyle Emmanuel could provide.

I realize you have a front seven that can stop the run, but could it still stop the run if 3 starters were on the sideline getting a break on some random 2nd down in the 3rd quarter? Depth isn't just players, depth of real talent is what I'm talking about and I don't believe UND has the depth of talent yet, at certain positions to hold up against the MVFC style of football. I could be wrong, but that's what I see.

By the way, that isn't a slight at UND, it's just the way football teams are built. if NDSU were building its team to win the big sky, I would expect the team to be much deeper in the secondary. Our starters are solid in most cases, but the backups need a lot of work.

UND plays nine defensive lineman.  Yes, there is a dropoff at around 7-9 but that is to be expected, as it is at every school.  Actually, the freshmen that are coming in and replacing the outgoing seniors are way better and way more talented.  The depth is there.  Now they need to build the same depth in the secondary.

[Bison06]

2 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

The front seven on defense is already very deep (deepest on the team, in fact). Your just over-praising the MVFC now. 2016 national champion cam drom the CAA, just as a reminder. UND will be just fine. Bubba and Schmidt know what it takes to compete in that league. 

And two of the four national semi finalists/one of the finalists came from the MVFC...just a reminder.

[UND-FB-FAN]

13 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

I think you and I have different definitions of depth. Having players at the position that can come in is not depth. Depth is the guy backing up the starter isn't a large drop off and in some ways bring a different part to the game that the starter can't. NDSU's d line a couple of years ago was a good example, they had 4 DE that were almost interchangeable, Emmanuel was special, but when he needed a break his back up could provide a serious boost of pass rush that was better than what a tired Kyle Emmanuel could provide.

I realize you have a front seven that can stop the run, but could it still stop the run if 3 starters were on the sideline getting a break on some random 2nd down in the 3rd quarter? Depth isn't just players, depth of real talent is what I'm talking about and I don't believe UND has the depth of talent yet, at certain positions to hold up against the MVFC style of football. I could be wrong, but that's what I see.

By the way, that isn't a slight at UND, it's just the way football teams are built. if NDSU were building its team to win the big sky, I would expect the team to be much deeper in the secondary. Our starters are solid in most cases, but the backups need a lot of work.

Wow, talk about NDSU bias. 

Yes, UND's backups have "real talent" and aren't just overlooked players that arrogant NDSU coaches couldn't look twice at. UNDs defensive line had injuries last season (including a broken collarbone for one starter) and didn't miss a beat. Nice try, though. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

11 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

And two of the four national semi finalists/one of the finalists came from the MVFC...just a reminder.

And the other was from the Big Sky Conference. This just goes round and round. The MVFC team in the finals got run out of the stadium.

[Bison06]

2 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Wow, talk about NDSU bias. 

Yes, UND's backups have real talent and aren't just overlooked players that arrogant NDSU coaches couldn't look twice at. UNDs defensive line had injuries last season (including a broken collarbone for one starter) and didn't miss a beat. Nice try, though. 

Wow, that's one hell of a stretch your taking there. Why go that direction with the conversation? I never mentioned for a second that any of your players weren't good enough to play at NDSU...sheesh

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

1 hour ago, Bison06 said:

I think the UND coaching staff may find themselves in a bit of an interesting recruiting position these next few years. As we know, nearly every team is built to win its respective conference. Conference teams are who you play the majority of your games against so it makes sense to build your team to beat those teams specifically. What's interesting is the style to win the big sky and the style to win the MVFC are very different and IMO require a different approach in building your team. e.g. In the big sky, your defense better be able to handle 5 wide on a consistent basis, meaning you'll likely want to have a lot of depth in your secondary. In the MVFC if you see 5 wide it won't be all game so you probably don't need quite the depth in the secondary. In the MVFC you'll get more of a steady dose of the power running game and will likely need a much deeper front 7, especially the d line. NDSU has won championships on the back of a defense that is built from the front back and their d line depth has been amazing these past 7 years.

How do you think the UND coaches will approach the task of staying competitive in the big sky for the time being, but also knowing that their team will need to be built differently to compete in the MVFC year in and year out.

They have 3 years to be ready for the MVFC, 1st there going to make some noise in the Big Sky, then we'll C U at a conference home game in GF.

[UND-FB-FAN]

2 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Wow, that's one hell of a stretch your taking there. Why go that direction with the conversation? I never mentioned for a second that any of your players weren't good enough to play at NDSU...sheesh

You certainly implied it when you said UND's backups don't have "real talent". What else would that mean? Let's not backpedal here. 

We can respectfully disagree on the capability of the players. I think UND's players are just fine and are at the "MVFC caliber" (whatever that is I don't know - just know it's a concept from you NDSU folk).

[Bison06]

5 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

And the other was from the Big Sky Conference. This just goes round and round. The MVFC team in the finals got run out of the stadium.

Maybe I misunderstood the reason you mentioned that a non-MVFC team won the finals this year. What was your reasoning for mentioning that?

[UND-FB-FAN]

3 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Maybe I misunderstood the reason you mentioned that a non-MVFC team won the finals this year. What was your reasoning for mentioning that?

CAA plays a different style that still worked fine against the MVFC. 2016 Big Sky conference teams EWU and UND competed fine against MVFC and CAA (although UND ultimately lost two close games to CAA). Essentially, don't get too lost in conference affiliation. 

[Bison06]

2 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

You certainly implied it when you said UND's backups don't have "real talent". What else would that mean? Let's not backpedal here. 

First of all, that's not a direct quote so you quoting me as saying "real talent" is already a stretch. Secondly, depth is about emphasis on a position, which is what my point has been this entire discussion. NDSU emphasizes certain positions due to the nature of how they are built. Because of that they don't take chances in recruiting with certain positions. O line and d line are two good examples. They offer many scholarships and bring many guys on campus to compete, some of them work out some of them don't but they don't leave it to chance by only recruiting one or two guys each year. Opposite example would be wide receiver, this is not a position of emphasis for NDSU, they don't allocate a lot of scholarship money to it each year. Probably why you have seen so many walk on receivers have success over the years. Nobody is disrespecting your players, I'm saying the coaches need to emphasize recruiting certain positions to compete in a different style of football.

[Bison06]

3 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

CAA plays a different style that still worked fine against the MVFC. 2016 Big Sky conference teams EWU and UND competed fine against MVFC and CAA (although UND ultimately lost two close games to CAA). Essentially, don't get too lost in conference affiliation. 

Fair, but if you watch the CAA it's built very similar to the MVFC.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

2 hours ago, JohnboyND7 said:

Is Alabama sliding every year or two then? I mean,  they didn't win the title!

Every year(including the juggernaut 2013 team), ndsu has had close games.  Losing coaches is not a bad thing,  means you are doing a good job finding good people.  Would you rather have a low energy guy who can't do any better than FCS? No. 

You have a prescription misfire?????? Too many pills?????? You are so full of yourselves.............

You no ALABAMA.

2 hours ago, Bison06 said:

You're really reaching for this one. Not every team can be better than the previous year's team. This past year in my mind was already going to be a team that was looking to replace some great players, corners were both green, offensive line was replacing NFL talent and then of course there's replacing Carson wentz, all that was before our two best and possibly most important defensive players went down for the season and the team still made the national semifinals, lost to the eventual champion and beat the other team in the championship in the regular season. The 2014 team wasn't as good as the 2013 team, did that mean they were slipping?  I realize for a UND fan it is comforting to think NDSU's run might be over, but all indications are that NDSU is primed and ready for another deep playoff run next year so don't hold your breath. 

Scratch the first sentence and you getting closer. Next years last loss could be on the road.

 

[UND-FB-FAN]

7 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

First of all, that's not a direct quote so you quoting me as saying "real talent" is already a stretch. Secondly, depth is about emphasis on a position, which is what my point has been this entire discussion. NDSU emphasizes certain positions due to the nature of how they are built. Because of that they don't take chances in recruiting with certain positions. O line and d line are two good examples. They offer many scholarships and bring many guys on campus to compete, some of them work out some of them don't but they don't leave it to chance by only recruiting one or two guys each year. Opposite example would be wide receiver, this is not a position of emphasis for NDSU, they don't allocate a lot of scholarship money to it each year. Probably why you have seen so many walk on receivers have success over the years. Nobody is disrespecting your players, I'm saying the coaches need to emphasize recruiting certain positions to compete in a different style of football.

I agree with your points. Just for your information, though, - as I don't know what you know about UND football - Bubba and his staff certainly emphasize defensive and offensive linemen, too. They are building their program in a very similar fashion to NDSU. UND also emphasizes athletic body types (6'2" 185 - 215 lbs.) that can play either outside backer or safety and also have significant special teams roles.