UND - Fargo

[The Sicatoka]

Oh mighty Hydras of specious arguments, I concede that you can come up with two complaints about NDSU for every one I counter. You sure do produce a lot of arguments. Maybe you should spend more time crafting intelligent ones.

You asked. I answered and stated my point of view.

Yet, another ad hominem attack surfaces.

[Hansel]

The land grant concept was needed at one time, namely a century and a half ago. The facilities to educate, to drive the country, would not have happened in that era without the Morrill Act.

Now, in today's world, the land grant designation is used by those with it to shut out non-land grant institutions that are qualified to do certain (primarily Federal) research from even bidding on it.

It has gone from a wonderful concept (promoting education of the general populace) to a licence to keep some from competing fairly and evenly for research dollars. But the land grants cling firmly to that century old designator as some sort of badge of honor.

PS - I'll avoid the words "Agriculture and Mechanic Arts" and the word "duplication" regarding other programs at land grants for now.

What types research dollars can non-land grant schools compete for

[PCM]

ScottM, didn't Ralph say something remarkably similar about President Kupchella?

I can't speak for Scott, but I'm guessing that he was putting Chapman and Kupchella in the same boat.

[The Sicatoka]

What types research dollars can non-land grant schools compete for

Normally, any qualified researcher/school can go after a grant.

However, a subset of Federal research grants require the proposer to not only be qualified but to be at a school carrying the "land grant" designator. That locks qualified groups from even bidding on the work. (That's paraphased from a recent Fargo Forum article quoting a UND VP.)

[NDSU grad]

Sic, then how do you explain this. There's alot of liberal arts schools (both private and public) on that list. With state budgets for higher education being reduced all across the country, universities are becoming more and more dependant on these research funds. UND should be raking in NIH money with the medical school.

And you conveniently left this out of your "definition" of the Morrill Act: ...without excluding other scientific and classical studies...

The Morrill Act

[PCM]

UND should be raking in NIH money with the medical school.

There are 23 states that receive a combined total of 5 percent of the NIH budget. North Dakota is one of those states. Until recently, the UND School of Medicine and Health Sciences focused on educating doctors, not on research. That is rapidly changing.

However, it takes time to build up biomedical research infrastructure and to attract researchers capable of pulling in NIH funding. Having a medical school doesn't automatically make a university a magnet for federal research dollars.

[NDSU grad]

PCM, I agree, but I do think Kupchella is going to have to make research more of a priority, and from the sounds of your post he may be doing that. I also think its ridiculous that Sicatoka thinks being a land grant school makes it a magnet for federal funding. The main granting agencies of the federal government are NIH, NSF, and DOE. I see no innate advantage to being a land grant school in garnering those organization's research dollars.

[The Sicatoka]

I didn't choose to omit anything. I borrowed the definitions from this site.

Next, please re-read what I stated: It was a UND VP for Research quoted in the Fargo Forum who said (paraphrased) that UND was at a competitive disadvantage for certain Federal research dollars because they aren't allowed to bid because they aren't a land grant. I'm not claiming it. A man who knows the system is stating it.

[Hansel]

A man who knows the system is stating it.

Considering how far UND is lagging in Research Dollars... I would say maybe the VP doesn't know the system

8 of the top 10 institutions in research dollars are not land-grant schools

10/10 do have Medical Schools though

[Corella]

PCM, I agree, but I do think Kupchella is going to have to make research more of a priority, and from the sounds of your post he may be doing that.

Kupchella is making it more of a priority, but he has other goals in place, chief amongst them are 1)giving out as many parking tickets as possible to drive up revenue, 2)getting enrollment up to 14,000 ASAP without adding parking for a few years (which plays into #1), 3)making life as hard as possible for the athletic department (like raising the minimum ACT to 22 which doesn't help #2), 4)carrying around the largest smug attitude possible and maintaining no social skills whatsoever, and lastly (5) making the students not like him as much as humanly possible. I am not a fan, and can understand completely if he rubs anyone the wrong way.

[PCM]

10/10 do have Medical Schools though

Which means nothing.

[CoteauRinkRat]

Kupchella is making it more of a priority, but he has other goals in place, chief amongst them are 1)giving out as many parking tickets as possible to drive up revenue, 2)getting enrollment up to 14,000 ASAP without adding parking for a few years (which plays into #1), 3)making life as hard as possible for the athletic department (like raising the minimum ACT to 22 which doesn't help #2), 4)carrying around the largest smug attitude possible and maintaining no social skills whatsoever, and lastly (5) making the students not like him as much as humanly possible. I am not a fan, and can understand completely if he rubs anyone the wrong way.

Your post definitely sums up my feelings towards Chuck.

[siouxjoy]

Just to clarify, the changes in admission requirements do not mean that a person with below a 22 will not be admitted to UND. The way the process works is that in 2005 a person with a 22 or higher (that is from outside ND) and has a 2.50 GPA along with the required high school classes will automatically be admitted. For students that don't have those automatic admission standards a committee evaluates their information and decides if they will be admitted or not.

I don't mind if a person states their opinion, and I think some of what Pres. Kupchella has been doing lately isn't all that great, but I just want to make sure the information they use to back it up is correct.

[sioux fan in phoenix]

The way the process works is that in 2005 a person with a 22 or higher (that is from outside ND) and has a 2.50 GPA along with the required high school classes will automatically be admitted.

Aren't most Sioux hockey players from outside N.D. & won't they have to meet these higher standards? Is Kupchella trying to turn UND into a little Harvard on the Prairie?

[CoteauRinkRat]

Aren't most Sioux hockey players from outside N.D. & won't they have to meet these higher standards? Is Kupchella trying to turn UND into a little Harvard on the Prairie?

Exactly, most of these players are from outside of ND and adding a committee to decide on a case by case basis of people who do not meet the criteria will only ignite arguments of, "he got admitted only because he is a hockey player".

[Hansel]

What will the standard for ND High School students be?

[PCM]

Gee, look what I found.

[ScottM]

Gee, look what I found.

Cool. Maybe these guys will have the balls to form a D1 hockey team.

[The Sicatoka]

What will the standard for ND High School students be?

Ask and ye shall receive.

From here:

Effective for Fall 2005, the following admission criteria will be used for freshmen and transfer students with less than 24 transferable credits.

In order to be admitted to the University of North Dakota, all students must meet the following minimum criteria:

- ACT composite score of 21 or SAT combined score of 990 for North Dakota residents, OR

- ACT composite score of 22 or SAT combined score of 1,030 for residents of states other than North Dakota

- Minimum high school cumulative GPA of 2.50 for all freshman applicants

- Completion of the high school core curriculum* which includes:

-- Four units** of English, including the development of written and oral skill,

-- Three units of mathematics, Algebra I and above

-- Three units of laboratory science

-- Three units of social studies

The Student Academics Standards Committee will consider applicants who have not met the minimum admission criteria.

*All students who graduate from high school, whether in North Dakota or any other state, in 1993 or later are required to complete a core curriculum before entering the University of North Dakota.

**A unit is equal to one year.

I also found this interesting compare and contrast document from LSU.

[Cratter]

"UND Claims Fargo Footing"

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm...28&section=news

[ScottM]

"UND Claims Fargo Footing"

[url="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=76728

[iramurphy]

I can't speak for Scott, but I'm guessing that he was putting Chapman and Kupchella in the same boat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quick, anyone have a torpedo that can range that boat???

[jloos]

Check out the Forum's chat on the subject - Forum

While you're there check out the other chats - man what a bunch of whiners.

[Gaggle]

UND-Fargo ordered to shut down by North Dakota University System Chancellor Robert Potts.

UND Fargo Center expelled

[Supertrex]

I wonder how many other policy decisions Potts has made after reviewing the Forum chat rooms for guidance. That's quite a barometer. Maybe he should be expelled. This leaves me wondering where he went to school? Seems like the whiners got their way - so much for access and progress. Pott's alternative solution must be to build a new center on the UND campus and provide student services remotely rather than utilize existing and available space to serve students locally when available (Why are my taxes so high???).

Believe it or not Mr. Pott's, some people actually prefer to have a degree from UND even if NDSU is in their backyard. It should be the student's choice and the program should be allowed to succeed or fail on that basis only.