siouxfan512 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Chewey, here's the undeniable problem with "University of North Dakota North Dakota": < formal institution name > < athletics nickname/mascot > For example ... U of Minnesota Gophers U of Miami Hurricanes In a "University of North Dakota North Dakota" world - the formal name is "University of North Dakota" - the nickname is "North Dakota" Oh, wait ... the nickname now includes Dakota ... and Dakota is a tribal name. That's in violation of the settlement agreement --> back on the sanctions list. A tribal name in a formal name is fine, see U of Iowa* or U of Sioux Falls or U of Miami**, but a tribal name in a nickname is sanctions. *Iowa is named for the Kiowa tribe. **the Miami tribe Except that North Dakota would not actually be the nickname. It would just be The University of North Dakota. You twisting facts to support your own opinions. There would be no redundancy in remaining the University of North Dakota. Are we the University of North Dakota North Dakota right now? No? So enough with your terrible, thoughtless argument. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Pretty good that I already responded to your response, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkster Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Roughriders: Already in use by a local high school North Dakota: It's not a nickname and worse, we don't want to redo this fiasco again in a couple years. Sorry but this route is simply unacceptable to both me and the NCAA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxfan512 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Chewey, here's the undeniable problem with "University of North Dakota North Dakota": < formal institution name > < athletics nickname/mascot > For example ... U of Minnesota Gophers U of Miami Hurricanes In a "University of North Dakota North Dakota" world - the formal name is "University of North Dakota" - the nickname is "North Dakota" Oh, wait ... the nickname now includes Dakota ... and Dakota is a tribal name. That's in violation of the settlement agreement --> back on the sanctions list. A tribal name in a formal name is fine, see U of Iowa* or U of Sioux Falls or U of Miami**, but a tribal name in a nickname is sanctions. *Iowa is named for the Kiowa tribe. **the Miami tribe Sorry Sic, but you arguments are ridiculous. Dakota can be in the formal school name, but not the nickname, even if it a state name. I completely understand the argument of not like"no nickname", but don't twist every single argument to support your opinion. Everything you have said completely contradicts itself. School Name: University of North Dakota (ok) Athletics Name: University of North Dakota (not ok) Then we have been out of compliance for the last three years. Like I said, I understand you not liking the "no name" route, but your ridiculous arguments are doing nothing but diminishing the credibility of your opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Except that North Dakota would not actually be the nickname. It would just be The University of North Dakota. Now that we've agreed upon and established that, let's address the part of the settlement agreement that says "transition to a new nickname and logo" and explain how going with North Dakota and continuing to use the existing interlocking ND exclusively as the only logo doesn't seem to fit. Maybe the NCAA doesn't care right away but sure gives them a pretty easy out to revisit it and we do this whole circus again. Nothing like poking a bear who is already tired of your antics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoHawks! Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Eff em. Of course we all agree on that, but we cannot get into a situation like this again, where we lose a name and have to get a new one due to someone being pissed off about it. That is why the name will be something like Spirit or Pride I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Chewey said, "University of North Dakota North Dakota" By that statement -- Formal name: University of North Dakota Nickname: North Dakota And there's a nickname with a tribe name (Dakota) in it. Sanctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxfan512 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Now that we've agreed upon and established that, let's address the part of the settlement agreement that says "transition to a new nickname and logo" and explain how going with North Dakota and continuing to use the existing interlocking ND exclusively as the only logo doesn't seem to fit. Maybe the NCAA doesn't care right away but sure gives them a pretty easy out to revisit it and we do this whole circus again. Nothing like poking a bear who is already tired of your antics. Old Name: Fighting Sioux New Name: North Dakota I'm not saying it is THE option, but it is my preference. I think everyone who is anti-no nickname (which I understand) is trying to use a single ambiguous word in the legal agreement to support their own opion. A single ambiguous word, which they have no real clarity on that would deter the use of University of North Dakota. I have to believe that the committee and the University of North Dakota (yes that is the name of the school) has more insight on the subject than the posters on this message board. If they say it is still in play, then they probably know something that you don't. Now, that doesn't mean we won't have another issues a few years down the road in some people wanting a nickname. BUT I am sick of people using the same tired argument, for which they have no real backup, to support their opinoion. Just say your opinion is to adopt a new nickname, and leave it at that.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Are we the University of North Dakota North Dakota right now? No? So enough with your terrible, thoughtless argument. The University of North Dakota is transitioning to a new nickname. There is no recognized nickname at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxfan512 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Chewey said, "University of North Dakota North Dakota" By that statement -- Formal name: University of North Dakota Nickname: North Dakota And there's a nickname with a tribe name (Dakota) in it. Sanctions. Again you are aguing semantics. If that was the case, then all Dakota school would be banned because really the Bison are the North Dakota State Bison; and don't argue the where the word lies in the phrase actually determines actionable sanctions. AND by that logic most schools would be under sanctions as their state names are associated with native americans. Again, I get that you don't like this route, but your argument carries no weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxfan512 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 The University of North Dakota is transitioning to a new nickname. There is no recognized nickname at this time. The notion of using "North Dakota" would be to operate as is. If it is on the list, then it is currently in play. What about that concept is so hard to grasp? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 ... is trying to use a single ambiguous word in the legal agreement ... " ... transition to a new nickname and logo ... " I'll state this: "North Dakota" as a nickname would be new (and redundant), but it would also violate the "no tribal names" policy that got us here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post UND-RedSox fan Posted June 11, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted June 11, 2015 Roughriders: Already in use by a local high school North Dakota: It's not a nickname and worse, we don't want to redo this fiasco again in a couple years. Sorry but this route is simply unacceptable to both me and the NCAA. I don't see why so many people have such a problem with Roughriders being UND's nickname because RRHS has it as one too. Talk to a random person in Bismarck or Dickinson or Williston or Minot or heck even Fargo and there is a decent chance they would have no idea that Red River is the Roughriders. That is within the state. Absolutely no one anywhere outside of North Dakota would know that Red River is the Roughriders or even that Red River is a high school in Grand Forks. I just think that RRHS is completely irrelevant to the discussion about UND's nickname. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Again you are aguing semantics. If that was the case, then all Dakota school would be banned because really the Bison are the North Dakota State Bison; and don't argue the where the word lies in the phrase actually determines actionable sanctions. AND by that logic most schools would be under sanctions as their state names are associated with native americans. Again, I get that you don't like this route, but your argument carries no weight. North Dakota State University -- formal name Bison -- nickname Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxfan512 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 " ... transition to a new nickname and logo ... " I'll state this: "North Dakota" as a nickname would be new (and redundant), but it would also violate the "no tribal names" policy that got us here. I'll pacify you right now with redundancy ... University of North Dakota North Dakota (WHICH THEY WOULD NEVER GO BY) Placement of the first Dakota (acceptable), Placement of the second Dakota (unacceptable). You logic and stupidity amazes me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxfan512 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 North Dakota State University -- formal name Bison -- nickname Doesn't matter, they still use Dakota. That f-ing offensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxfan512 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I'll pacify you right now with redundancy ... University of North Dakota North Dakota (WHICH THEY WOULD NEVER GO BY) Placement of the first Dakota (acceptable), Placement of the second Dakota (unacceptable). You logic and stupidity amazes me. What about University of North Dakota NoDaks? you are referencing Dakota? Is that out too then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I'll state this also: If "North Dakota" is on that list, and intends to mean really "no nickname", I'd like to see a document from the NCAA saying that "no nickname" (a blank space) complies with the settlement agreement in their point of view so we don't repeat this fiasco. One final statement: Pick a new nickname. A blank space is not good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Doesn't matter, they still use Dakota. That f-ing offensive. Not in the eyes of the people that made the (admittedly arbitrary and capricious) rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 What about University of North Dakota NoDaks? you are referencing Dakota? Is that out too then? You didn't say "Dakota" (the tribe name). It escapes. (Again, not my arbitrary and capricious rules.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSSioux Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 The couple of years has shown that most will continue to use the Fighting Sioux nickname because there is nothing to fill the void. Leaving the void open will do nothing but continue that. Picking something new gives people guidance on where to go. Of course there will be people that will continue to use it, regardless of what is chosen but those people will slowly dwindle, as has happened at every other school and college that has went through the same process. That doesn't mean that people forget about it, but it means that people understand what is best for the University. I would very much argue that the NCAA feels the school has moved on. They had representatives in Fargo at the regionals and heard the Sioux chants. And as tSic would say, Marco Hunt being on the ice in Boston wasn't a coincidence/mistake it was a message... Please read the section on Intellectual Property (I believe section 2 - subsection J) before you keep spouting off on people keeping on chanting the Fighting Sioux. Anyone who has any background in IP knows the school is in more trouble with the NCAA agreement and how it will keep the trademark of Fighting Sioux and the Ben Brien logo, than if we remain just North Dakota. According to the agreement the school must maintain the rights to these or give them up to one of the local tribes. So regardless of what nickname, or having no nickname (by the way you can replace something with nothing - ask anyone who has been part of downsizing, or just anyone who knows basic math), those people who continue to shout Sioux, or wear the logo are actually helping to keep the agreement with the NCAA according to the IP section. I am definitely on record as wanting whatever name to go up against remaining North Dakota and needing to have it create a majority to win. I know that is now how it must be according to the committee, but that does not mean it is not the right thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperfan7 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 There were really good names that were thrown out for WAY less then the name "North Dakota". Of all the names suggested, "North Dakota" has to be the most controversial. Yet it still remains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperfan7 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Please read the section on Intellectual Property (I believe section 2 - subsection J) before you keep spouting off on people keeping on chanting the Fighting Sioux. Anyone who has any background in IP knows the school is in more trouble with the NCAA agreement and how it will keep the trademark of Fighting Sioux and the Ben Brien logo, than if we remain just North Dakota. According to the agreement the school must maintain the rights to these or give them up to one of the local tribes. So regardless of what nickname, or having no nickname (by the way you can replace something with nothing - ask anyone who has been part of downsizing, or just anyone who knows basic math), those people who continue to shout Sioux, or wear the logo are actually helping to keep the agreement with the NCAA according to the IP section. I am definitely on record as wanting whatever name to go up against remaining North Dakota and needing to have it create a majority to win. I know that is now how it must be according to the committee, but that does not mean it is not the right thing to do. Ummmm........No. . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxfan512 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 You didn't say "Dakota" (the tribe name). It escapes. (Again, not my arbitrary and capricious rules.) Wow you are inconsistent. Like I said before, you are simply twisting your own interpretations to support your own opinions. University of North Dakota - Not ok; Need "official" nickname. Contains word Dakota, but word placement is ok University of North Dakota North Dakota - Not ok; 1st Dakota is ok, 2nd Dakota is not ok University of North Dakota Nodaks - ok, still contains word Dakota, but placement is ok. Includes NoDaks which reference North Dakota, but as it is missing the letters -ota it is acceptable. This is not the NCAA's logic, this is your interpretation of an agreement to loophole in your opinion and exclude others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Please read the section on Intellectual Property (I believe section 2 - subsection J) before you keep spouting off on people keeping on chanting the Fighting Sioux. Anyone who has any background in IP knows the school is in more trouble with the NCAA agreement and how it will keep the trademark of Fighting Sioux and the Ben Brien logo, than if we remain just North Dakota. According to the agreement the school must maintain the rights to these or give them up to one of the local tribes. So regardless of what nickname, or having no nickname (by the way you can replace something with nothing - ask anyone who has been part of downsizing, or just anyone who knows basic math), those people who continue to shout Sioux, or wear the logo are actually helping to keep the agreement with the NCAA according to the IP section. I am definitely on record as wanting whatever name to go up against remaining North Dakota and needing to have it create a majority to win. I know that is now how it must be according to the committee, but that does not mean it is not the right thing to do. This was addressed in 2013. Dacotah Legacy Collection: The University of North Dakota is required by its 2007 settlement agreement with the NCAA to protect certain University trademarks. All manufacturers for the Dacotah Legacy Collection will be selected through Licensing Resource Group (LRG), UND’s licensing partner. Licensees with specific experience designing “throwback” or “legacy” collection items will be given consideration by LRG. Print off 100 limited edition shirts to keep the trademarks and sell for a huge profit. The NCAA is fine with it because its 100 items and is the only way the trademarks can stay active. And with the pace they've been doing it, it appears it will be extremely limited. Not sure how fans shouting "Fighting Sioux" or wearing old clothing helps UND in regards to this. Neither of those is considered commercial use which is needed to keep the trademarks. I personally own one of those shirts and will buy any other releases if I'm able. Why? Because I'm proud of the history and the University. That doesn't mean I don't want it to move on from a situation that continues to be a net negative for the University. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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