darell1976 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 You are indeed delusional. Kids within this area, the upper Midwest, are way, way more likely to have heard of, and give damn about, the teams in the MVFC and the Summit than those in the Big Sky. If you don't understand that, I can't help you. And I bet people thought Oakland was in Michigan not California. Outside of the former NCC teams and maybe UNI no one knew anything about the other SL/MVFC teams. Indiana State is only known for Larry Bird, Denver is known for hockey, and SIU is known for Dale Lennon. Other than that most teams are still unknown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 You are indeed delusional. Kids within this area, the upper Midwest, are way, way more likely to have heard of, and give damn about, the teams in the MVFC and the Summit than those in the Big Sky. If you don't understand that, I can't help you. These "kids" you speak of must be pretty oblivious to their surroundings if they haven't heard of Montana, Montana State, Eastern Washington, etc. Point is, student-athletes aren't as unaware as you make them out to be; thus, they don't prefer the MVFC/Summit simply because there happens to be familiar Dakota schools in the conference. There are so many more factors than just conference geography, such as academics, program tradition, and facilities. To say that a student-athlete from North Dakota would rather play against South Dakota State every year rather then Montana is real hit-and-miss. That is, it's a lot less common than you make it out to be. The Big Sky Conference and MVFC/Summit are just too similar to make a difference. Sorry, but your argument is full of holes. It sounds nice and politically correct, but it lacks common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosidel Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 And I bet people thought Oakland was in Michigan not California. Outside of the former NCC teams and maybe UNI no one knew anything about the other SL/MVFC teams. Indiana State is only known for Larry Bird, Denver is known for hockey, and SIU is known for Dale Lennon. Other than that most teams are still unknown. You know it's really hard to find a cogent point in this post. Oakland isn't in the Summit anymore, and the rest of your post actually presents a very strong case that the Summit schools do have much better recognition in this area than do the Big Sky schools. The NCC schools + UNI = 5 schools with better recognition than any school in the Big Sky. That seems pretty significant to me. And, geez, isn't UND a hockey school itself, and a hockey intense rival of Denver's? Even if Denver's presence doesn't help basketball recruiting much in this area, wouldn't UND fans like to play Denver twice a year in MBB and WBB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 You know it's really hard to find a cogent point in this post. Oakland isn't in the Summit anymore, and the rest of your post actually presents a very strong case that the Summit schools do have much better recognition in this area than do the Big Sky schools. The NCC schools + UNI = 5 schools with better recognition than any school in the Big Sky. That seems pretty significant to me. And, geez, isn't UND a hockey school itself, and a hockey intense rival of Denver's? Even if Denver's presence doesn't help basketball recruiting much in this area, wouldn't UND fans like to play Denver twice a year in MBB and WBB? So no one has heard of Montana, Montana State, SUU (your former conference mate), ex NCC member Northern Colorado, your former GWFC mates Cal Poly and UC Davis, Eastern Washington (just mention the red turf), with UND that's 7 teams Bison fans and regional fans will know. You saying no one knows teams in the Big Sky with Montana being the Big Sky State proves you are completely clueless. Take off the yellow glasses, it helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosidel Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 These "kids" you speak of must be pretty oblivious to their surroundings if they haven't heard of Montana, Montana State, Eastern Washington, etc. Point is, student-athletes aren't as unaware as you make them out to be; thus, they don't prefer the MVFC/Summit simply because there happens to be familiar Dakota schools in the conference. There are so many more factors than just conference geography, such as academics, program tradition, and facilities. To say that a student-athlete from North Dakota would rather play against South Dakota State every year rather then Montana is real hit-and-miss. That is, it's a lot less common than you make it out to be. The Big Sky Conference and MVFC/Summit are just too similar to make a difference. Sorry, but your argument is full of holes. It sounds nice and politically correct, but it lacks common sense. Again, you're delusional. In this area, there just isn't any comparison. I live in the Twin Cities, for instance. I deal with alumni of the SL/MVFC schools on a daily basis. I don't recall the last time I encountered anyone from a Big Sky school other than UND. That's why UND has traditionally recruited in this area and not so much in footprint of the Big Sky. It's just a lot easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Again, you're delusional. In this area, there just isn't any comparison. I live in the Twin Cities, for instance. I deal with alumni of the SL/MVFC schools on a daily basis. I don't recall the last time I encountered anyone from a Big Sky school other than UND. That's why UND has traditionally recruited in this area and not so much in footprint of the Big Sky. It's just a lot easier. UND is not trying to recruit in the Big Sky Conference footprint exclusively, at least in football. UND football (now with Bubba) recruits the traditional areas of ND, MN, and Manitoba. From what I've heard, Bubba and his staff have found that a lot of recruits are interested in playing against the Montana schools and traveling to the west coast. As a result, the BSC becomes a draw to these same regional recruits who you claim dislike the BSC versus the Summit/MVFC. As for MBB, the extensive geography covered by the BSC is a plus for some and a negative for others. Comes down to the recruits preferences. I just don't agree with you, at all, that recruiting would be much easier for UND if they were in the MVFC/Summit. Future collegiate student-athletes don't concentrate just on conference locale, and the FCS/low-major conferences certainly do not produce a make or break difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosidel Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 UND is not trying to recruit in the Big Sky Conference footprint exclusively, at least in football. UND football (now with Bubba) recruits the traditional areas of ND, MN, and Manitoba. From what I've heard, Bubba and his staff have found that a lot of recruits are interested in playing against the Montana schools and traveling to the west coast. As a result, the BSC becomes a draw to these same regional recruits who you claim dislike the BSC versus the Summit/MVFC. As for MBB, the extensive geography covered by the BSC is a plus for some and a negative for others. Comes down to the recruits preferences. I just don't agree with you, at all, that recruiting would be much easier for UND if they were in the MVFC/Summit. Future collegiate student-athletes don't concentrate just on conference locale, and the FCS/low-major conferences certainly do not produce a make or break difference. OK, I'll put it this way. Let say you're living in the Twin Cities, or Madison WI, or some other city in the upper Midwest. Let's further say that you have a kid and that kid is a good athlete who receives scholarship offers from two schools, one in the Big Sky an one in the SL/MVFC. As the kid's father, with I hope a fair amount of influence over the kid, which offer are you going to want the kid to take? The one were you can drive to Brookings, or Fargo to see him play away games? Or the one were his away games are at least 1,000 miles from your home? Now, put yourself in the kid's shoes, wouldn't you like to have your family at an away game or two, and maybe some of your friends too? Heck, some of those friends may already be attending some of those schools. Do you really think that those sorts of factors don't have anything to do with recruiting decisions? Sorry, but there's no doubt that UND is at a disadvantage in this area versus SL/MVFC schools because of its affiliation with the Big Sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkster Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 OK, I'll put it this way. Let say you're living in the Twin Cities, or Madison WI, or some other city in the upper Midwest. Let's further say that you have a kid and that kid is a good athlete who receives scholarship offers from two schools, one in the Big Sky an one in the SL/MVFC. As the kid's father, with I hope a fair amount of influence over the kid, which offer are you going to want the kid to take? The one were you can drive to Brookings, or Fargo to see him play away games? Or the one were his away games are at least 1,000 miles from your home? Now, put yourself in the kid's shoes, wouldn't you like to have your family at an away game or two, and maybe some of your friends too? Heck, some of those friends may already be attending some of those schools. Do you really think that those sorts of factors don't have anything to do with recruiting decisions? Sorry, but there's no doubt that UND is at a disadvantage in this area versus SL/MVFC schools because of its affiliation with the Big Sky. Shouldn't that Big Sky disadvantage be favorable to NDSU? We like it here, why do you care where we are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Shouldn't that Big Sky disadvantage be favorable to NDSU? We like it here, why do you care where we are? Bingo!! In fact with the BSC being so negative why did NDSU, SDSU, try to join? And in the case of USD if it wasn't for a backdoor deal they would've joined to. Bison fans should have embraced joining the Gateway/Midcon not put it down like they did in the beginning, oh and don't forget how pissed fans and I am sure Gene Taylor was when the BSC picked UNC to join over them. But not a peep of negativity until UND was offered a full membership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 OK, I'll put it this way. Let say you're living in the Twin Cities, or Madison WI, or some other city in the upper Midwest. Let's further say that you have a kid and that kid is a good athlete who receives scholarship offers from two schools, one in the Big Sky an one in the SL/MVFC. As the kid's father, with I hope a fair amount of influence over the kid, which offer are you going to want the kid to take? The one were you can drive to Brookings, or Fargo to see him play away games? Or the one were his away games are at least 1,000 miles from your home? Now, put yourself in the kid's shoes, wouldn't you like to have your family at an away game or two, and maybe some of your friends too? Heck, some of those friends may already be attending some of those schools. Do you really think that those sorts of factors don't have anything to do with recruiting decisions? Sorry, but there's no doubt that UND is at a disadvantage in this area versus SL/MVFC schools because of its affiliation with the Big Sky. Or maybe things like what degrees are offered at the school, the quality of the academic programs, the quality of the facilities, and the big one, relationship with the coaching staff, might all rank well above the proximity to a few away games. Moreover, some students might appreciate a chance to visit Portland, OR, San Francisco, CA, Salt Lake City, UT, and Big Sky Country over trips to Brookings, SD, Vermillion, SD, Omaha, NE, or Carbondale, IL among the high points in the Summit/MVFC. Desire to have some friendly faces at a couple of away games may resonate with a few student-athletes, but it isn't the major deciding factor that you are trying so, so hard to sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I've been pretty vocal about my opinons on conference affilitation since like 2005, but I'll reiterate them now. For me, hands down it's the Big Sky, it's not even close, no contest, I really can't believe anybody would prefer any other arrangement. Big Sky affiliation guarantees athletic and academic relationships with peer schools like Montanta, Montana St. , Idaho, South Dakota St., North Dakota St., and South Dakota. Summit membership would cut that number in half. Big Sky affiliation provides us with a relationship with what ESPN calls one of the 50 Greatest NCAA Basketball Programs of all time in Weber St. The Big Sky represents North Dakota's alumni so much more so than does the Summit. Outside of the Twin Cities, North Daktota's alumni base are most commonly found by a wide margin in California, Colorado, Washington, and Arizona, all of which have a Big Sky presence. On a personal level, I absolutely don't see how the travel argument is detrimental at all to the Big Sky. I travel to one road football game every year. Easy to say I prefer Davis, CA and the like to places like Macomb, IL. As far as recruiting goes, which would you prefer? A 3 hr plane ride or an 8 hr bus ride? If we were in the Summit, there is no guarantee like some claim that we could schedule Weber and the Montana schools in non-conference play. Hell, we can't even schedule USD for basketball, yet some feel Montana would be a given as a non-conference opponent. As far as the Summit Basketball Tourney in Sioux Falls that everyone has been gushing about of late, it looked impressive on TV with a great atmosphere. That was due to being in the heart of SDSU and USD country. Until UND starts filling out its own "smallish" home venue, I have hard time believing that a significant number of fans are going to follow them to any conference tournament. Both are good leagues, but there is no arguing that the Summit is what you take when that is all you are offered. There are six former NCC schools in DI right now, and 5 of them applied to the Big Sky. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd1sufan Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Bingo!! In fact with the BSC being so negative why did NDSU, SDSU, try to join? And in the case of USD if it wasn't for a backdoor deal they would've joined to. Bison fans should have embraced joining the Gateway/Midcon not put it down like they did in the beginning, oh and don't forget how pissed fans and I am sure Gene Taylor was when the BSC picked UNC to join over them. But not a peep of negativity until UND was offered a full membership. OK, lets say you are right and NDSU fans favored the BSC over a Gateway/MidCon combo, which I disagree with. NDSU fans preferred the BSC over the Great West/No football conference combo. But lets say you are correct and NDSU fans favored the BSC over the MVFC/Summit. Now that everybody has seen both options, I for one and I think most NDSU fans and UND fans would agree the MVFC/Summit combo is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niouxsiouxfan Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 Again, you're delusional. In this area, there just isn't any comparison. I live in the Twin Cities, for instance. I deal with alumni of the SL/MVFC schools on a daily basis. I don't recall the last time I encountered anyone from a Big Sky school other than UND. That's why UND has traditionally recruited in this area and not so much in footprint of the Big Sky. It's just a lot easier. OK, I'll put it this way. Let say you're living in the Twin Cities, or Madison WI, or some other city in the upper Midwest. Let's further say that you have a kid and that kid is a good athlete who receives scholarship offers from two schools, one in the Big Sky an one in the SL/MVFC. As the kid's father, with I hope a fair amount of influence over the kid, which offer are you going to want the kid to take? The one were you can drive to Brookings, or Fargo to see him play away games? Or the one were his away games are at least 1,000 miles from your home? Now, put yourself in the kid's shoes, wouldn't you like to have your family at an away game or two, and maybe some of your friends too? Heck, some of those friends may already be attending some of those schools. Do you really think that those sorts of factors don't have anything to do with recruiting decisions? Sorry, but there's no doubt that UND is at a disadvantage in this area versus SL/MVFC schools because of its affiliation with the Big Sky. If you have an athletic child that is receiving offers from UND/NDSU I hope the kid picks UND! It is ultimately the players decision as he should be 18 or close to 18 and he is the one that has to live with his first decision that will probably have a major impact on his life. There are many factors that go into choosing: degrees offered, campus life, job placement and earning potential, and many athletic considerations (lets use basketball). Location-ease of family/friends to see games. These are generally home games with friendly crowd, as many wont travel to regular season away game due to environment and distance. There are exceptions, local away games, big conference away games. Depends on scheduling, and this is some factor but generally if a recruit is coming in a coach will notify the player that they will try to get a game in their home state. Style of play. The athlete has to look at what program fits them, as well as if it gives them a chance to succeed. TV coverage. Both conferences have ESPN Championship coverage. UND has FSN North package. Conference. The Summit footprint is the midwest, BSC is North Dakota and west. Many kids recruited from the Cities area and Dakotas have seen the midwest thru AAU and high school, they may want to see more. They have also heard of Weber St, Montana, EWU. I know kids that would love to go play in California, just one example. I think what UND has to offer is better. I believe the draw of a bigger, potentially stronger conference, is what the basketball athlete is looking for. However, there are variables that could sway a player to NDSU, but they are few. UND just has more recognized schools in conference and more opportunity for the player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FargoBison Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I don't think there is a difference between either conference for basketball. There are no recognizable names in either conference really, no Gonzaga or Wichita State's. I don't think kids really care where they travel to, they mostly want to play high level competition and both conferences offer the same ability to schedule power five schools in non-conference. Neither conference has a high level basketball program, both are one bid leagues. Really for recruiting you are mostly looking at relationship with the coach, academic major, style of play, program tradition, facilities, and perhaps location could play a bit of role but it is probably further down the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 OK, I'll put it this way. Let say you're living in the Twin Cities, or Madison WI, or some other city in the upper Midwest. Let's further say that you have a kid and that kid is a good athlete who receives scholarship offers from two schools, one in the Big Sky an one in the SL/MVFC. As the kid's father, with I hope a fair amount of influence over the kid, which offer are you going to want the kid to take? The one were you can drive to Brookings, or Fargo to see him play away games? Or the one were his away games are at least 1,000 miles from your home? Now, put yourself in the kid's shoes, wouldn't you like to have your family at an away game or two, and maybe some of your friends too? Heck, some of those friends may already be attending some of those schools. Do you really think that those sorts of factors don't have anything to do with recruiting decisions? Sorry, but there's no doubt that UND is at a disadvantage in this area versus SL/MVFC schools because of its affiliation with the Big Sky. So if the Slummit is such a powerful draw, how come the Bison don't have anybody of consequence from the Cities on their roster, but UND does? NDSU basketball mostly relies on Illinois and Wisconsin. The Horizon and MVC just weren't interested in those players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 15 seed NDSU vs 2 seed Gonzaga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 15 seed NDSU vs 2 seed Gonzaga Go Gonzaga! Shut those people up.....please. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDPritch Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 You know, I have never heard an NDSU fan deny that NDSU wanted in the Big Sky in the worst way. Fortunately, the Big Sky turned us down and things have worked out much better in Summit/MVFC. Of course had NDSU been accepted into the Big Sky, the Summit would not now be any better than the old MidCon. So, I guess it worked out well for everyone...well everyone except UND, which is stuck on an island with its nearest away games over 800 miles away.Unlike NDSU up until early 2000s, UND was already used to being a div 1 sports school due to its hockey program. 800 miles, used to traveling such distances--Anchorage 3,000 miles (?), Den 900 miles, CC 950 miles, Madison 575 miles, Omaha 500 miles, Mpls 300 miles,... Unlike NDSU for UND even pre-2000s it wasn't just 2 to 5 hours bus rides to St Cloud, Brookings, Vermillion, Duluth, Mankato,...so prob a non-issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niouxsiouxfan Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 Go Gonzaga! Shut those people up.....please. THIS^^^^ PLEASE!!!! But I fairly certain we don't have to worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 So potential recruits from North Dakota and Minnesota haven't heard of the University of Montana and aren't interested in playing in California? The Big Sky is a better league than the Summit, in terms of basketball. The Summit has a nice conference tournament venue, but the BSC has a wider geography range and big name schools in MBB (Weber, Montana). Also, I prefer that the regular season conference champion hosts the conference tournament; makes for good crowds and would be exciting to one day host in GF. Going to the Summit/MVFC is not an instant recruiting fix by any means, and to believe that is a result of simplified thinking. Targeting the right recruits and then developing them is still key. I would rather be part of an every year caravan to Sioux Falls than hope for a "one day" hosting situation. That was my shot to Archduke Ferdinand that started this world war. I apologize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I would rather be part of an every year caravan to Sioux Falls than hope for a "one day" hosting situation. That was my shot to Archduke Ferdinand that started this world war. I apologize. Doesn't look like it's going to matter much longer. Big Sky Conference is looking like it will move to a predetermined tournament site, such as Billings. When you look at that setup, I'd much rather travel to Sioux Falls. I just think hosting the tournament in GF would make for a great event. Too bad that won't be happening anytime soon it appears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I just think hosting the tournament in GF would make for a great event. Too bad that won't be happening anytime soon it appears. Had a great opportunity to do it with the talent that was on the 13 and 14 rosters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 That was my shot to Archduke Ferdinand that started this world war. Awesome historical reference, Matt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Doesn't look like it's going to matter much longer. Big Sky Conference is looking like it will move to a predetermined tournament site, such as Billings. When you look at that setup, I'd much rather travel to Sioux Falls. I just think hosting the tournament in GF would make for a great event. Too bad that won't be happening anytime soon it appears. I think they are bound and determined to try a neutral site for three years. I think after that experiment is up, they will go back to the home team hosting, I don't think any of the venues that are finalists are going to perform well enough to make them want to continue the neutral site. I'll give the Summit League SDSU/USD fans credit, they very much support the tournament in Sioux Falls. That place will be a morgue if/when those two teams get knocked out early some year. I guess it doesn't really matter as the tickets are sold, but crowd shots will look a little different. Look at the attendance (not the box score number either) for some of the other games that didn't involve those two teams for proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Awesome historical reference, Matt! No need for war here, just friendly discussion, so let's go ahead and sign that Treaty of Versailles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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