Big Sky Athlete Stipends

[Old Time Hockey]

Why does women's hockey lose so much money? Like pointed out earlier, it is a bus league and Idalskis salary can't be that much. D3 schools have it, so why does it cost so much?

[Old Time Hockey]

Are you drinker then me? It loses 1.4million per year

It barley makes the tourney

Women's vball and bball lose less and bball has been in march madness.

Cut women's hockey

Maybe you should donate some of your big money to help subsidize it! :-)

[cberkas]

Why does women's hockey lose so much money? Like pointed out earlier, it is a bus league and Idalskis salary can't be that much. D3 schools have it, so why does it cost so much?

 

Only 3 woman's programs turned a profit Dartmouth, Yale, and Vermont.

[UND92,96]

I don't think it's a Title IX problem.  That could be managed relatively easily as part of an overall trimming of sports offerings.  I agree that it is perceived as this insurmountable PR problem.  It's pretty clear that nothing will happen to womens hockey under the current AD, but I hope once the new AD comes in, he will take a serious look at dropping the sport.  Womens hockey gets Grade A coverage from Schlossman at the Herald, is second to none in terms of funding, plays in a beautiful facility, had two local superstars come through the program, and yet it still doesn't draw flies.  It is a non-revenue sport with a revenue sport budget.  It is not sustainable. 

 

Neither Bemidji, SCSU, Mankato, or Duluth are comparable.  None of them are DI, they have none of the costs associated with FCS football, and none will have to deal with FCOA for their football programs.  Minnesota, Ohio State, and Wisconsin are also not similarly situated because they have enormous overall budgets that can absorb the huge losses associated with womens hockey.  

 

I do think Duluth is a useful comparison, because they've tried to keep up with MN and WI (and UND) spending-wise, and it has led to some serious problems for them. I don't think women's hockey necessarily needs to be dropped. But the spending has to be looked at closely. If travel costs and coaches' salaries aren't the issue--and I don't believe they are--where is all the money going?

 

Here's an interesting link: http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/291770101.html

[The Sicatoka]

See how much Denver spends on lacrosse and that should give you an idea how much it's going to cost.

 

Undoubtedly costly, but it would gate more than baseball, M/W S&D, and W IH combined. 

[nodakhoops]

Why drop women's hockey?

It is the second most successful team sport on campus.

Drop men's basketball first! They suck!

 

 

You might be drunken than GFhockey with a post like this. Football with it's 25 conference titles and 1 national championship, Women's BBall with it's 3 national titles, 15 conference titles and 1 NCAA tourney bid, and men's bball with its 18 conference titles, 19 NCAA tourney appearances, 1 NBA Hall of Famer, 4 NBA draft picks might disagree with you saying Women's hockey is the 2nd most succesful team on campus....

 

Also in the last 4 years MBB has played countless games each year on ESPN, FSN, Fox Sports 1, with just regular season and Big Sky tourney games. Do you know what kind of exposure that gives UND? Also, if they make the NCAA tourney, do you know what kind of exposure that gives UND??? 

 

Women's Hockey doesn't even have their National Title game on TV. There are no NCAA tourney games even on TV. The highest attended team in the country averages around 1500 a game. This should be a big red flag for pumping money into that program. There is very little potential for growth with that sport. 

 

I'm not saying drop the program, but your post above makes no sense at all. 

[The Sicatoka]

I suspect Old Time Hockey's post was somewhat tongue-in-cheek. 

[jdub27]

Part of the issue is that the "cost" of scholarships for WH is skewed on the high side because of the amount of international and non-reciprocity players (9 and 3 respectively last season).  That alone probably "added" $100K or so to the women's hockey budget.  Not saying that other sports don't run into that as well but its much more disproportionate on the women's hockey team.

[nodakhoops]

Part of the issue is that the "cost" of scholarships for WH is skewed on the high side because of the amount of international and non-reciprocity players (9 and 3 respectively last season).  That alone probably "added" $100K or so to the women's hockey budget.  Not saying that other sports don't run into that as well but its much more disproportionate on the women's hockey team.

 

I was wondering about that. I was also thinking recruiting trips to Finland and Germany can't be all that cheap either. Costs a little more than driving to Warroad. 

[gfhockey]

They think they need everything the men's team get

Charter flights

Unlimited stick budget

New jerseys every other year.

Fancy hotels

It's out of control.

[gfhockey]

I bet idalski still coaches here for $30k less per year

Who else would hire him

He hasn't said anything special

[SooToo]

Undoubtedly costly, but it would gate more than baseball, M/W S&D, and W IH combined. 

Are you sure about this? Personally, I don't sense any great untapped fan interest in lacrosse, unless you assume UND fans just can't get enough of sports with a goalie and sticks. Personally, I'd hate to see baseball go, and I think those who say it can never be competitive need to take a look at results so far this season.

 

There's an old cliche in campaign politics: "If you want to gather roses, look where roses grow." I think the StarTrib article posted by 92,96 says all you need to know about where to look for athletic department savings. How many other women's programs could be strengthened by redirecting womens' hockey scholarships to other areas? And how much money would UND actually save by axing swimming and diving, or baseball? (IIRC, doesn't much of baseball's funding come through donations of former players?)

[nodakhoops]

Are you sure about this? Personally, I don't sense any great untapped fan interest in lacrosse, unless you assume UND fans just can't get enough of sports with a goalie and sticks. Personally, I'd hate to see baseball go, and I think those who say it can never be competitive need to take a look at results so far this season.

 

There's an old cliche in campaign politics: "If you want to gather roses, look where roses grow." I think the StarTrib article posted by 92,96 says all you need to know about where to look for athletic department savings. How many other women's programs could be strengthened by redirecting womens' hockey scholarships to other areas? And how much money would UND actually save by axing swimming and diving, or baseball? (IIRC, doesn't much of baseball's funding come through donations of former players?)

 

 

I would agree with this. Baseball is a great sport, I feel they can have success here, I feel they can make the NCAA tourney eventually (which all games are on ESPN), they have a very strong alumni base, and they recruit a ton of local talent. To me baseball is low cost high reward sport for UND that should be funded better imo. Shoot they might make the NCAA tourney this year. 

 

SDSU and NDSU have shown you can have success in baseball here, no reason UND can't. Plenty of other men's sports should go before baseball if it came to that.

[The Sicatoka]

Are you sure about this? 

 

When ya ain't gatin' squat it doesn't take much.

[UND92,96]

Could UND cut $200,000 per year from the women's hockey budget, and still achieve a similar record to the last couple of years? I would guess the answer is probably yes. 

[cberkas]

Undoubtedly costly, but it would gate more than baseball, M/W S&D, and W IH combined. 

 

Denver's lacrosse expenses are $2,028,585.

 

In the 2013 lacrosse season Denver had $1 higher in revenue over it's $2.03 million expenses.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-05-23/notre-dame-brings-lacrosse-s-lowest-revenue-into-ncaa-semifinals

 

Here's a map that shows how much college's spend od D1 lacrosse.

 

http://diycollegerankings.com/much-colleges-spend-d1-mens-lacrosse-programs-2/7471/

[gfhockey]

I bet Und could cut half a million from the women's budget and finish third and miss the tourney like they have been

[The Sicatoka]

Denver's lacrosse expenses are $2,028,585.

 

In the 2013 lacrosse season Denver had $1 higher in revenue over it's $2.03 million expenses.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-05-23/notre-dame-brings-lacrosse-s-lowest-revenue-into-ncaa-semifinals

 

Here's a map that shows how much college's spend od D1 lacrosse.

 

http://diycollegerankings.com/much-colleges-spend-d1-mens-lacrosse-programs-2/7471/

 

Dang, those costs have really jumped since the last time I did serious digging. 

 

I guess the only way to afford lacrosse ... is to not have football. < runs and hides > 

[Old Time Hockey]

I suspect Old Time Hockey's post was somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

You ruin all the fun!

[The Sicatoka]

You ruin all the fun!

 

Sometimes you have to give them the quarter and send them to the clue machine.  

[Old Time Hockey]

Could UND cut $200,000 per year from the women's hockey budget, and still achieve a similar record to the last couple of years? I would guess the answer is probably yes.

How much could we have cut during the Mussman era and had the same record?

[Shawn-O]

How much could we have cut during the Mussman era and had the same record?

 

Since they were compensated well below market, I'd say not much.  

[UND92,96]

How much could we have cut during the Mussman era and had the same record?

 

I'm not sure if you took a look at the link I posted earlier today, but UND is reportedly spending MORE than Minnesota and Wisconsin for women's hockey. I don't want women's hockey dropped, but neither do I understand the logic behind this level of spending.

[fightingsioux4life]

Dang, those costs have really jumped since the last time I did serious digging. 

 

I guess the only way to afford lacrosse ... is to not have football. < runs and hides > 

Well, several Division I hockey schools don't sponsor football (Denver, Alaska-Anchorage, Alaska-Fairbanks), so it wouldn't be all that unprecedented.  And I have said over and over again that if we aren't committed to being a top-tier FCS program, then we are better off without having a program at all.  But I am hoping Bubba can make some big strides in the next couple of years.

[SiouxVolley]

Colorado St is adding women's lax. The bizon might have a sport with which to join the Mountain West as lakes wants, and take a big step in solving their Title IX issues. Fresno and San Diego St have it too, but I guess bison board policy prohibits air travel unless its to Indiana or Oklahoma.

ConcordiaSP is adding it too, but at a DII level.