TV Coverage

[darell1976]

The UND/SDSU game should draw a good crowd at the Al and also on TV for Midco.

http://youtu.be/IZvVEcIWN3o

And no, Fargo isn't the capital of North Dakota... even though they think they are.

And whatever UND is calling themselves these days. I got a chuckle out of that.

[UNDBIZ]

Just saw on the UNDSports website that only 3 of the 6 remaining home football games are going to be in HD. Anybody have any insight as to why the other 3 won't be???

[Redneksioux]

Just saw on the UNDSports website that only 3 of the 6 remaining home football games are going to be in HD. Anybody have any insight as to why the other 3 won't be???

I'd venture to guess the hd truck/equipment will be used elsewhere on these weekends

[UNDColorado]

Just saw on the UNDSports website that only 3 of the 6 remaining home football games are going to be in HD. Anybody have any insight as to why the other 3 won't be???

I know the day that we play EWU there is a hockey game that night so i'd imagine that would be a reason as to why the EWU game is not HD. I haven't checked on the others though...

[fightingsioux4life]

Let us know how things are when you move to NeverNeverLand. You say that you can't always get everything you want all the time, yet you complain because you aren't getting what you want. Companies like Cable One don't want to show something that is going to promote Midcontinent, so they aren't going to negotiate a "fair contract". And Midcontinent isn't paying $200,000 to UND per year plus all of the other costs involved in broadcasting games just so that they can help their competitors.

Again, like I said, I am not affected by this. I live in Grand Forks and I have season tickets to football and hockey. So I don't even have a dog in the fight, I was just making an observation. And I stand by that observation.

The bolded part is what is wrong with our economy today. Companies getting too big for their britches, to the point where they feel they can screw over their customers without any natural consequences. And in this case, they are taking that attitude and applying it to each other with regards to programming. There is lots of money to be made by a lot of people without putting anyone out of business. Cable One is not a threat to Midcontinent in the Upper Midwest. And Midcontinent can score points with potential, future customers in Fargo by cutting a deal with Cable One (because, sooner or later, that exclusive contract will be done away with). But we live in a short-sighted society and this is another symptom of that.

But please feel free to continue accepting whatever explanation you are given. I prefer to analyze it critically and point out things that need to be pointed out. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

[southpaw]

Again, like I said, I am not affected by this. I live in Grand Forks and I have season tickets to football and hockey. So I don't even have a dog in the fight, I was just making an observation. And I stand by that observation.

The bolded part is what is wrong with our economy today. Companies getting too big for their britches, to the point where they feel they can screw over their customers without any natural consequences. And in this case, they are taking that attitude and applying it to each other with regards to programming. There is lots of money to be made by a lot of people without putting anyone out of business. Cable One is not a threat to Midcontinent in the Upper Midwest. And Midcontinent can score points with potential, future customers in Fargo by cutting a deal with Cable One (because, sooner or later, that exclusive contract will be done away with). But we live in a short-sighted society and this is another symptom of that.

But please feel free to continue accepting whatever explanation you are given. I prefer to analyze it critically and point out things that need to be pointed out. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Midco is trying to get into Fargo once the contract with CableOne is up. If Midco gives CableOne their channel, they essentially give away any incentive to switch over to Midco once that move is made.

You don't see manufacturers just giving their products to companies to sell so why do you expect something different from TV? CableOne has to buy the channel before they can pass it on to their customers, just like every other business.

[82SiouxGuy]

Again, like I said, I am not affected by this. I live in Grand Forks and I have season tickets to football and hockey. So I don't even have a dog in the fight, I was just making an observation. And I stand by that observation.

The bolded part is what is wrong with our economy today. Companies getting too big for their britches, to the point where they feel they can screw over their customers without any natural consequences. And in this case, they are taking that attitude and applying it to each other with regards to programming. There is lots of money to be made by a lot of people without putting anyone out of business. Cable One is not a threat to Midcontinent in the Upper Midwest. And Midcontinent can score points with potential, future customers in Fargo by cutting a deal with Cable One (because, sooner or later, that exclusive contract will be done away with). But we live in a short-sighted society and this is another symptom of that.

But please feel free to continue accepting whatever explanation you are given. I prefer to analyze it critically and point out things that need to be pointed out. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

First, it doesn't affect me at all because I also live in Grand Forks and have season tickets to both football and hockey. It doesn't matter what I believe, it does matter what is real.

You seem to analyze these things with some altruistic bent, not from any sense of reality. Business has almost always operated by their own self interest. They don't give stuff away. Look back through history and you will see businesses doing what will make them the most money, not doing things that are good for people, especially not for people that aren't their customers. Do you think that Standard Oil or any of those monopolies were doing things just to be nice to non-customers? I don't think so. They wouldn't have been broken up if they were doing a lot of good things for people.

You are right, business has trended toward making short term financial decisions the last 20 years or so. Sometimes that has a detrimental effect on their business for the long term. But southpaw is correct. This is more akin to a manufacturer giving away their product to a competitor. Midcontinent has a product that creates demand, UND Hockey. Midcontinent is paying for the rights to that product. Giving it to competitors is bad business. They either make the competitor pay for it, enough to make it worthwhile, or they use the product to entice the customer away from the competitor. That is what is happening in places like Fargo, with companies like Cable One. If Midcontinent wanted, they could refuse to let other competing cable companies have the product at all. They are at least making it available. But they are in no way obligated to give the product away.

[mksioux]

Midco is trying to get into Fargo once the contract with CableOne is up. If Midco gives CableOne their channel, they essentially give away any incentive to switch over to Midco once that move is made.

You don't see manufacturers just giving their products to companies to sell so why do you expect something different from TV? CableOne has to buy the channel before they can pass it on to their customers, just like every other business.

Again, like I said, I am not affected by this. I live in Grand Forks and I have season tickets to football and hockey. So I don't even have a dog in the fight, I was just making an observation. And I stand by that observation.

The bolded part is what is wrong with our economy today. Companies getting too big for their britches, to the point where they feel they can screw over their customers without any natural consequences. And in this case, they are taking that attitude and applying it to each other with regards to programming. There is lots of money to be made by a lot of people without putting anyone out of business. Cable One is not a threat to Midcontinent in the Upper Midwest. And Midcontinent can score points with potential, future customers in Fargo by cutting a deal with Cable One (because, sooner or later, that exclusive contract will be done away with). But we live in a short-sighted society and this is another symptom of that.

But please feel free to continue accepting whatever explanation you are given. I prefer to analyze it critically and point out things that need to be pointed out. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

My two cents - the real issue is not about what Midco or Cable One are doing. They're doing what businesses do. The gripe, if any, should be with UND signing an exclusive deal with Midco knowing it would not likely be distributed to the largest city in North Dakota. Again, this comes down to the exposure versus money argument. UND (through the Fighting Sioux Sports Network) used to put a premium on exposure. Lately, the focus seems to be more on money. Two different philosophies and I think there are reasonable arguments on both sides.

My personal opinion is that exposure should be the primary goal, and in the long run, it will lead to more money through increased fan interest. But I also understand the pressure of budgets and the immediate need for a direct monetary benefit through television deals.

[Matt]

I apologize in advance if this has already been asked and answered, but is UND producing the broadcast in house and bidding out the licensing the broadcast rights or is Midco actually producing/broadcasting the entire thing?

[82SiouxGuy]

I apologize in advance if this has already been asked and answered, but is UND producing the broadcast in house and bidding out the licensing the broadcast rights or is Midco actually producing/broadcasting the entire thing?

Midco took over television production 1 year ago. The productions are part of Midcontinent's Sports Network. UND never would have purchased HD equipment this year like Midco did. I believe that this week's football game will be the first in HD.

[Matt]

Midco took over television production 1 year ago. The productions are part of Midcontinent's Sports Network. UND never would have purchased HD equipment this year like Midco did. I believe that this week's football game will be the first in HD.

Then I sure don't blame them for refusing rights to cable one or charging a hefty fee.

[southpaw]

My two cents - the real issue is not about what Midco or Cable One are doing. They're doing what businesses do. The gripe, if any, should be with UND signing an exclusive deal with Midco knowing it would not likely be distributed to the largest city in North Dakota. Again, this comes down to the exposure versus money argument. UND (through the Fighting Sioux Sports Network) used to put a premium on exposure. Lately, the focus seems to be more on money. Two different philosophies and I think there are reasonable arguments on both sides.

My personal opinion is that exposure should be the primary goal, and in the long run, it will lead to more money through increased fan interest. But I also understand the pressure of budgets and the immediate need for a direct monetary benefit through television deals.

When UND signed the contract, CableOne and Midco had an agreement in place. That's not the case anymore. When UND signed the contract with Midco, they were increasing the number of games broadcast and the promise of going to HD within three years (they did it after year one). When UND signed the contract they were getting both money and exposure. Blame CableOne and Midco for not renewing their contract, but this is far from UND's fault.

[mksioux]

When UND signed the contract, CableOne and Midco had an agreement in place. That's not the case anymore. When UND signed the contract with Midco, they were increasing the number of games broadcast and the promise of going to HD within three years (they did it after year one). When UND signed the contract they were getting both money and exposure. Blame CableOne and Midco for not renewing their contract, but this is far from UND's fault.

What agreement between Midco and CableOne are you referencing? Whatever it was, it obviously wasn't a long-term agreement if it could be cancelled or non-renewed so quickly. Did UND just assume Midco and CableOne would get along and renew their deal? If making sure UND games were shown in Fargo was critically important to UND, then someone in the general counsel's office didn't do a very good job in negotiating the deal to ensure that it would happen for the entire life of the TV deal. Or maybe the money on the table from Midco was more important than insisting on UND games being shown in Fargo for the life of the contract? I'm not privy to the negotiations and don't claim to know what was available or realistic and at what cost. What I do know is that UND gave up control for maximum exposure when it decided to give production and distribution rights to Midco. And I also know that a dispute between Midco and CableOne should have been anticipated. I'm not saying UND doesn't care at all about exposure. I'm sure they do. But from an outsider's perspective, it appears UND cared more about the money it was getting from Midco than in ensuring maximum exposure. Fargo is a pretty glaring hole in the coverage network, don't you think?

[Vegas_Sioux]

The only beef that anyone has with UND in the tv rights arena is the NCHC tv contract and they were stuck with it. Which sucks for fans outside of the area. But hopefully they can work something out.

[southpaw]

What agreement between Midco and CableOne are you referencing? Whatever it was, it obviously wasn't a long-term agreement if it could be cancelled or non-renewed so quickly. Did UND just assume Midco and CableOne would get along and renew their deal? If making sure UND games were shown in Fargo was critically important to UND, then someone in the general counsel's office didn't do a very good job in negotiating the deal to ensure that it would happen for the entire life of the TV deal. Or maybe the money on the table from Midco was more important than insisting on UND games being shown in Fargo for the life of the contract? I'm not privy to the negotiations and don't claim to know what was available or realistic and at what cost. What I do know is that UND gave up control for maximum exposure when it decided to give production and distribution rights to Midco. And I also know that a dispute between Midco and CableOne should have been anticipated. I'm not saying UND doesn't care at all about exposure. I'm sure they do. But from an outsider's perspective, it appears UND cared more about the money it was getting from Midco than in ensuring maximum exposure. Fargo is a pretty glaring hole in the coverage network, don't you think?

There are an estimated 109,000 people living in Fargo. Based on cable subscriber numbers from other cities about 20-25% of a population are cable customers. So that's about 27,000 CableOne subscribers in Fargo. Which is more important? Having three football home games on TV but making sure those 27,000 people can view it? Or having $5 million and all of the football home games, 3 more volleyball games, the same number of men's and women's basketball games and women's hockey games on TV and those 27,000 people have to travel five miles to watch the game?

[82SiouxGuy]

What agreement between Midco and CableOne are you referencing? Whatever it was, it obviously wasn't a long-term agreement if it could be cancelled or non-renewed so quickly. Did UND just assume Midco and CableOne would get along and renew their deal? If making sure UND games were shown in Fargo was critically important to UND, then someone in the general counsel's office didn't do a very good job in negotiating the deal to ensure that it would happen for the entire life of the TV deal. Or maybe the money on the table from Midco was more important than insisting on UND games being shown in Fargo for the life of the contract? I'm not privy to the negotiations and don't claim to know what was available or realistic and at what cost. What I do know is that UND gave up control for maximum exposure when it decided to give production and distribution rights to Midco. And I also know that a dispute between Midco and CableOne should have been anticipated. I'm not saying UND doesn't care at all about exposure. I'm sure they do. But from an outsider's perspective, it appears UND cared more about the money it was getting from Midco than in ensuring maximum exposure. Fargo is a pretty glaring hole in the coverage network, don't you think?

I could be wrong, but I don't think that Cable One ever broadcast every UND game that was available. I think they passed on hockey games every year and I don't know how many games they broadcast for other sports. That was when they were able to get the games for free. Now you expected them to agree to promote a Midcontinent product, the Midco Sports Network, for 5 years. Especially when everyone knows that the 2 companies are competing for customers and that Midcontinent is planning to move into Fargo. And you expect Midcontinent to provide that product, one of the things they plan to use to differentiate themselves from companies like Cable One, at a low cost to their competitor. Cable One didn't like broadcasting the games for free, do you think they are going to pay a substantial fee to broadcast the games?

There was no way that UND could have gotten a deal that guaranteed exposure in Fargo. Not when 2 competing companies are fighting over the territory. And only 1 of them was interested in the TV rights. That is an unreasonable expectation. Midcontinent was actually willing to pay for TV rights, something that no one else was willing to do. UND took the best option available for television broadcast rights at the time.

[mksioux]

There are an estimated 109,000 people living in Fargo. Based on cable subscriber numbers from other cities about 20-25% of a population are cable customers. So that's about 27,000 CableOne subscribers in Fargo. Which is more important? Having three football home games on TV but making sure those 27,000 people can view it? Or having $5 million and all of the football home games, 3 more volleyball games, the same number of men's and women's basketball games and women's hockey games on TV and those 27,000 people have to travel five miles to watch the game?

I think you just made my point. I wasn't arguing that UND should have insisted on Midco making the games available to CableOne subscribers in Fargo, just that they could have done so and didn't. Or UND could have kept production in-house through the joint venture of the Fighting Sioux Sports Network. The money was more important.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

How long is CableOne's exclusive contract with Fargo? When can Midco try to get that market?

[mksioux]

I could be wrong, but I don't think that Cable One ever broadcast every UND game that was available. I think they passed on hockey games every year and I don't know how many games they broadcast for other sports. That was when they were able to get the games for free. Now you expected them to agree to promote a Midcontinent product, the Midco Sports Network, for 5 years. Especially when everyone knows that the 2 companies are competing for customers and that Midcontinent is planning to move into Fargo. And you expect Midcontinent to provide that product, one of the things they plan to use to differentiate themselves from companies like Cable One, at a low cost to their competitor. Cable One didn't like broadcasting the games for free, do you think they are going to pay a substantial fee to broadcast the games?

I don't expect CableOne to do anything of the sort. And maybe you're right that CableOne wouldn't have picked up any Midco-produced games even if the feed was free (but I doubt that is actually the case). I was just pointing out that UND chose to contract out production and take the money over keeping it in-house and ensuring maximum exposure.

There was no way that UND could have gotten a deal that guaranteed exposure in Fargo. Not when 2 competing companies are fighting over the territory. And only 1 of them was interested in the TV rights. That is an unreasonable expectation. Midcontinent was actually willing to pay for TV rights, something that no one else was willing to do. UND took the best option available for television broadcast rights at the time.

You could very well be right that Midco wouldn't have offered anything if it was required to deal with CableOne first. At a minimum, the money Midco was willing to pay would have been drastically reduced. Again, I'm not necessarily arguing UND made the wrong decision, just pointing out that, to me, there was a subtle shift away from exposure in favor of money. I'm not saying that's wrong. But as an outsider (who admittedly is "just a fan" and doesn't know the budget situation and a million other specifics), I would have preferred UND keep production in-house and keep something like the Fighting Sioux Sports Network joint venture intact. That would have ensured maximum exposure, but it would have yielded less money for UND.

[southpaw]

I don't expect CableOne to do anything of the sort. I was just pointing out that UND chose to contract out production and take the money over keeping it in-house and ensuring maximum exposure.

You could very well be right that Midco wouldn't have offered anything if it was required to deal with CableOne first. At a minimum, the money Midco was willing to pay would have been drastically reduced. Again, I'm not necessarily arguing UND made the wrong decision, just pointing out that, to me, there was a subtle shift away from exposure in favor of money. I'm not saying that's wrong. But as an outsider (who admittedly is "just a fan" and doesn't know the budget situation and a million other specifics), I would have preferred UND keep production in-house and keep something like the Fighting Sioux Sports Network joint venture intact. That would have ensured maximum exposure, but it would have yielded less money for UND.

You keep using the term maximum exposure. Half of the home football games is not maximum exposure. You lose 27,000 POTENTIAL viewers with the current deal. In the past, you lose EVERY viewer when the game isn't even on TV.

Exposure has increased with this deal.

[82SiouxGuy]

I don't expect CableOne to do anything of the sort. And maybe you're right that CableOne wouldn't have picked up any Midco-produced games even if the feed was free (but I doubt that is actually the case). I was just pointing out that UND chose to contract out production and take the money over keeping it in-house and ensuring maximum exposure.

You could very well be right that Midco wouldn't have offered anything if it was required to deal with CableOne first. At a minimum, the money Midco was willing to pay would have been drastically reduced. Again, I'm not necessarily arguing UND made the wrong decision, just pointing out that, to me, there was a subtle shift away from exposure in favor of money. I'm not saying that's wrong. But as an outsider (who admittedly is "just a fan" and doesn't know the budget situation and a million other specifics), I would have preferred UND keep production in-house and keep something like the Fighting Sioux Sports Network joint venture intact. That would have ensured maximum exposure, but it would have yielded less money for UND.

But it wouldn't have ensured maximum exposure unless they were able to reach contract agreement with all of the different cable systems. Cable One didn't show all of the games before, why would they sign a 5 year agreement to show them now? This is just my guess, but I don't think that Cable One liked showing the product for 2 reasons. One is that Midcontinent was involved in the production and got credit for it during the games. Cable One didn't like promoting a competitor. The other is that Cable One has concerns about getting too connected to UND when Fargo is an NDSU town. They would rather upset the UND fans than upset the NDSU fans.

Even if UND had produced the games, I don't think that Cable One would have signed a long term agreement as long as Midcontinent was involved in any way. And UND would have had a hard time making the production work for 40 plus games without partners like Midcontinent and WDAZ. I also don't think that you would have seen HD during this 5 year contract if UND was producing the games. Considering the tight budgets for college athletics, the money involved was also very important. But I don't think that the ideal conditions that you are talking about was ever going to be available.

[fightingsioux4life]

Just happened to run across this article from the LA Times (reprinted in today's Star Tribune). This is the point I have been trying to make, that Midcontinent and Cable One shouldn't sacrifice the long-term for the short-term:

Cord-cutting reality: Pay-TV industry loses 217,000 subscribers

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-pay-tv-industry-loses-subscribers-20130903,0,7983225.story

The report illustrated why Time Warner Cable had little choice but to settle its contentious dispute with CBS Corp., which led to a monthlong blackout of CBS-owned stations in Los Angeles, New York and Dallas.

Cable companies turn off potential future customers at their own peril. Of course, the customer only has leverage if they use it. Fighting Sioux fans in Fargo need to contact Cable One and tell them they want UND sports on their televisions.

[mksioux]

But it wouldn't have ensured maximum exposure unless they were able to reach contract agreement with all of the different cable systems. Cable One didn't show all of the games before, why would they sign a 5 year agreement to show them now? This is just my guess, but I don't think that Cable One liked showing the product for 2 reasons. One is that Midcontinent was involved in the production and got credit for it during the games. Cable One didn't like promoting a competitor. The other is that Cable One has concerns about getting too connected to UND when Fargo is an NDSU town. They would rather upset the UND fans than upset the NDSU fans.

Even if UND had produced the games, I don't think that Cable One would have signed a long term agreement as long as Midcontinent was involved in any way. And UND would have had a hard time making the production work for 40 plus games without partners like Midcontinent and WDAZ. I also don't think that you would have seen HD during this 5 year contract if UND was producing the games. Considering the tight budgets for college athletics, the money involved was also very important. But I don't think that the ideal conditions that you are talking about was ever going to be available.

Fair enough. I don't know anywhere close to enough details about the Cable One situation to say you're wrong. I didn't realize Cable One did not show all the hockey games when it was produced by FSSN. I just really liked the idea of in-house production, controlling distribution, and focusing on increasing exposure. But you're probably right, the money just wasn't there to expand it in a way that I envisioned it. It seemed very promising in the beginning and it was disappointing to see it go out with such a whimper.

[82SiouxGuy]

Fair enough. I don't know anywhere close to enough details about the Cable One situation to say you're wrong. I didn't realize Cable One did not show all the hockey games when it was produced by FSSN. I just really liked the idea of in-house production, controlling distribution, and focusing on increasing exposure. But you're probably right, the money just wasn't there to expand it in a way that I envisioned it. It seemed very promising in the beginning and it was disappointing to see it go out with such a whimper.

There are a lot of benefits to keeping it in house. But it is a very specialized field and things are changing quickly, so I think that most schools would be willing to give up a lot of that control for working with an established firm and getting guaranteed money. You don't see very many schools doing television in house on a large scale. Most in house television is very localized. Radio seems to be easier for schools to handle in house.

[fightingsioux4life]

First, it doesn't affect me at all because I also live in Grand Forks and have season tickets to both football and hockey. It doesn't matter what I believe, it does matter what is real.

You seem to analyze these things with some altruistic bent, not from any sense of reality. Business has almost always operated by their own self interest. They don't give stuff away. Look back through history and you will see businesses doing what will make them the most money, not doing things that are good for people, especially not for people that aren't their customers. Do you think that Standard Oil or any of those monopolies were doing things just to be nice to non-customers? I don't think so. They wouldn't have been broken up if they were doing a lot of good things for people.

You are right, business has trended toward making short term financial decisions the last 20 years or so. Sometimes that has a detrimental effect on their business for the long term. But southpaw is correct. This is more akin to a manufacturer giving away their product to a competitor. Midcontinent has a product that creates demand, UND Hockey. Midcontinent is paying for the rights to that product. Giving it to competitors is bad business. They either make the competitor pay for it, enough to make it worthwhile, or they use the product to entice the customer away from the competitor. That is what is happening in places like Fargo, with companies like Cable One. If Midcontinent wanted, they could refuse to let other competing cable companies have the product at all. They are at least making it available. But they are in no way obligated to give the product away.

Where have I ever said that Midco should "give away" anything? Please do not put words in my mouth (and that goes for everybody else on this thread). Midcontinent should sell the rights to Cable One for whatever price they end up negotiating. The only point I have been trying to make is that both entities are trying to get 100% of what they want from each other. That never happens, I don't think it's even possible. And in the end, it's the customer (a.k.a. the people that ultimately pay the bills) that gets used as a pawn. Do you think Ralph Engelstad ever negotiated with the idea that he would get 100% of what he wanted from a potential partner and would walk away if he didn't get it? I say no. I say if he had, he wouldn't have been as successful in Las Vegas and we wouldn't have the $104 million arena bearing his name. I think Ralph even said he wanted to get out of the casino business because he tired of all the long legal contracts and liked it better when deals were sealed with a simple handshake.

And please don't think I am a shill for Cable One; I have a buddy in Fargo that HATES Cable One and has said if he couldn't have a dish, he would just go without anything. I think their monopoly is bad for customers and I think it's only a matter of time before it is done away with, no matter what happens with this deal. There are just too many people in Fargo that want a choice in cable providers for it not to happen eventually.

I am not promoting "altruism", I am promoting free market competition so that those of us paying ever-increasing monthly cable bills can vote with our wallets and influence what programming is offered to them. Cable One is just one example of how large, powerful, monopolistic companies are insulated from the natural consequences of marketplace competition and can just screw over whomever they want whenever they want. You, ironically, made my point for me when you brought up Standard Oil. They were broken up because they were using their monopolistic position to suck up all the wealth for themselves and shut out any potential competitors. AT&T was broken up in 1982; now there are a plethora of phone providers to choose from.

My ultimate point is that one or both of these cable providers are likely being stubborn with each other and are trying to get 100% of everything for themselves and that the rest of us pay the price for it. UND fans in Fargo need to call Cable One and tell them you want UND sports this season. Let your wallets do the talking.