NCAA Post-Season Format

[MafiaMan]

This was started off-topic in the annual "Fire Hakstol" thread so I thought I would start a new thread for it. I think most, if not all college hockey fans would agree, the current regional format, for lack of a better choice of words, TOTALLY SUCKS. North Carolina vs Duke, Syracuse vs UConn, or Michigan State vs Ohio State for the right to GET TO the Final Four is something that rarely, if ever, happens in college basketball. Contrast that with men's ice hockey, where NCAA tries to arrange Denver vs UND, Minnesota vs UND, UNH vs BC, or other rivalries on almost a yearly basis. Not to mention the fact that supposed #1 overall seeds like '98 North Dakota wind up playing an away game in Yost Arena vs Michigan or '05 Minnesota winds up with a potential match-up with North Dakota in Grand Forks (until the now infamous upset at the hands of Sacred Heart Holy Cross happened and wiped out that game). This just simply should NOT happen in college hockey and the current format is unacceptable.

The days of the two games and total goal differential would almost be preferable to lifeless regionals being held in places like Toledo, Green Bay, or Grand Rapids. I've already suggested going back to the teams being seeded 1-16 and the first round (if not first two rounds) being held in the higher seed's building. This may present logistical issues such as the one Wilbur pointed out in the afore-mentioned thread in paragraph one, where a conflict with another event could force a venue change, but I think those issues can and could be dealt with as they occur.

What are some other thoughts on the current format vs changing the format? Do you like the format as it currently stands? Or should it be blown up completely?

[BeazSioux]

Blow it up. I like the first round being best of three, then even a championship weekend where it's single elimination at one site for the remaining eight. Make it Wed, Friday, Saturday for the championship. Or something like that.

[puck]

Blow it up. I like the first round being best of three, then even a championship weekend where it's single elimination at one site for the remaining eight. Make it Wed, Friday, Saturday for the championship. Or something like that.

Bring the first round back on campus with best of 3 series using rankings #1 hosting #16, etc. No manipulations for "attendance" reasons. Even if you end up with 1500 in a 2000 seat barn, you will have a better atmosphere than the current regionals. The second round could also be on campuses if you want to keep a "Frozen Four" tournament, or go to an eight team tournament over a weekend, like Thurs, Sat, Championship Monday. Doesn't BB have their championship on Monday night? Coaches (some of them anyway) are calling for a change. http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/260568/

[keikla]

"Great run so far, kid. Now put your season on the line in an empty arena, on an unsafe playing surface, with a toilet for a locker." - NCAA

General by UNDSID on Apr 5, 2013 10:35:13 AM

Jayson's going on a bit of a rant about it on twitter right now. And so he should. For those who didn't see the picture, Chyzyk's 'locker' was essentially the urinal stall because there wasn't enough space in the lockerroom.

The atmosphere in Grand Rapids was pathetic at best. The Griffins fans (the GR AHL team) in front of us said, "Well, it's a Friday afternoon...did you expect better?" Yes. Yes, we did. Obviously for that specific regional, the NCAA was banking on at least one Michigan team making it. So, let's say that Michigan managed to sneak out the CCHA conference tourney win and take that 4th spot in the regional. Then, Minnesota gets rewarded as the #2 overall seed by playing them in their backyard? Talk about a flawed system...

[Goon]

Yep, that was a hot button subject at the last media day. In the past they have talked about having a best 2/3 series at the homes site of the higher seeds and they moving to a super region.

[MafiaMan]

So, let's say that Michigan managed to sneak out the CCHA conference tourney win and take that 4th spot in the regional. Then, Minnesota gets rewarded as the #2 overall seed by playing them in their backyard? Talk about a flawed system...

Even more amusing about the two-hour ride to the host side Grand Rapids...is that the Wolverines would have probably preferred the 66 mile drive straight south to Toledo instead.

Personally, I thnk the first round best-of-three is a no-brainer. The question is...what's the best format after that? I'd hate to see two dead-dog tired teams playing for a national title...

[SiouxTupa]

The atmosphere in Grand Rapids was pathetic at best. The Griffins fans (the GR AHL team) in front of us said, "Well, it's a Friday afternoon...did you expect better?" Yes. Yes, we did.

I'd almost buy that excuse for the Friday game, but Saturday attendance was just as bad.

[MafiaMan]

I'd almost buy that excuse for the Friday game, but Saturday attendance was just as bad.

It was Easter weekend, folks!

[watchmaker49]

Cut it back to 8 teams and top 4 get home ice for a 2/3 series. Too many teams are making the tourney that should not be there. Throw out the league championship clause also. Is it really parity in college hockey that the lower seeds are winning? Or just they had one good night and the top team and off night?

[jdub27]

Cut it back to 8 teams and top 4 get home ice for a 2/3 series. Too many teams are making the tourney that should not be there. Throw out the league championship clause also. Is it really parity in college hockey that the lower seeds are winning? Or just they had one good night and the top team and off night?

I believe Yale was one of the last two teams in. They must have had 2 good nights because they beat two of the top 8 teams.

The other issue is, starting next year how many autobids will there be? 6? Leaving only two at-large bids.

[watchmaker49]

I believe Yale was one of the last two teams in. They must have had 2 good nights because they beat two of the top 8 teams.

Neither of which played worth a damn.

[MafiaMan]

Cut it back to 8 teams and top 4 get home ice for a 2/3 series. Too many teams are making the tourney that should not be there. Throw out the league championship clause also. Is it really parity in college hockey that the lower seeds are winning? Or just they had one good night and the top team and off night?

Go back to 12 with a first-round bye? Next 8 teams compete at highest seeded team's barn and the winners from there go on to play the 1-4 seeds?

[Fighting Sioux 23]

I believe Yale was one of the last two teams in. They must have had 2 good nights because they beat two of the top 8 teams.

The other issue is, starting next year how many autobids will there be? 6 (I think)? Leaving only two at-large bids.

Even this year, the tournament would have looked like this...

Autobid to League Tournament Champion:

#1 Quinnipiac vs. #8 Canisius*

#2 Minnesota vs. #7 Wisconsin*

#3 Massachusetts Lowell* vs. #6 Union*

#4 Notre Dame* vs. #5 Miami

Autobid to League Regular Season Champion:

#1 Quinnipiac* vs. #8 St. Cloud State*

#2 Minnesota vs. #7 Niagara*

#3 Massachusetts Lowell* vs. #6 Boston College

#4 Notre Dame vs. #5 Miami*

* - Autobid

[keikla]

Ha! I overheard a guy at a table next to us explaining how they should expand it to a 64-team field and set it up like basketball. Clearly, he doesn't follow college hockey too closely.

Keeping the conference tourney auto-bids is a way to reward teams for getting hot at the right time (as opposed to teams like UNH who started strong and limped to the finish...). And I think 8 teams would leave too many deserving teams on the outside looking in.

Not that I have a solution for any of it, of course. But something needs to change.

[Goon]

Go back to 12 with a first-round bye? Next 8 teams compete at highest seeded team's barn and the winners from there go on to play the 1-4 seeds?

So you want top 20 teams in the tourney?

[Goon]

Ha! I overheard a guy at a table next to us explaining how they should expand it to a 64-team field and set it up like basketball. Clearly, he doesn't follow college hockey too closely.

Keeping the conference tourney auto-bids is a way to reward teams for getting hot at the right time (as opposed to teams like UNH who started strong and limped to the finish...). And I think 8 teams would leave too many deserving teams on the outside looking in.

Not that I have a solution for any of it, of course. But something needs to change.

Yeah, we would need to add a few teams.

[jodcon]

It makes sense from a lot of angles.

1) In the first round alone you would get between 16-24 games at the home of the higher seed with good crowds, the format now is a TOTAL of 15 games with most of them played in a building full of empty seats. I watched almost all the first-round games, the attendance was terrible for most games. Attendance issue solved.

2) It gets the tournament back in hockey schools barns, this isn't NCAA football or basketball where you can arrange a game anywhere and people will flock to it, there are not enough casual college hockey observers to fill buildings. It also rewards the teams that have endured the long season to secure one of the top 8 spots with a better chance of moving on to the final tournament, as we've seen many times hockey more than any other sport is very dangerous in a single-elimination format, one greasy goal can be a game-changer. Anybody can beat anybody on a given night, winning 2 of 3 deserves to move on.

3) It would make the final tournament more of an event. Now it's a 3-game affair involving 4 teams, it would become a 7 game weekend involving 8 teams...the attendance and hype would be fantastic.

I like it.

[MafiaMan]

Keeping the conference tourney auto-bids is a way to reward teams for getting hot at the right time (as opposed to teams like UNH who started strong and limped to the finish...). And I think 8 teams would leave too many deserving teams on the outside looking in.

The one concern I have with the conference tournament champion auto-bid process is that we're right back to where we were in 1994 or 1995 with regular-season champion Colorado College staying at home for the NCAA's thanks to a first-round conference tournament playoff loss at home to Michigan Tech. St Cloud was a Michigan or Boston U away from sitting at home for the tournament...and that wouldn't have been right.

[MafiaMan]

So you want top 20 teams in the tourney?

Poorly stated by me, I apologize. Yea, let's go 20, why not?

What I envisioned was the top four seeds getting a bye, seeds 5-12, 6-11, 7-10, and 8-9 facing off at the higher seed's venue. The top four from there would then move on to play the top four seeds (on the road obviously) and the winners from there would advance to the Frozen Four.

[keikla]

The one concern I have with the conference tournament champion auto-bid process is that we're right back to where we were in 1994 or 1995 with regular-season champion Colorado College staying at home for the NCAA's thanks to a first-round conference tournament playoff loss at home to Michigan Tech. St Cloud was a Michigan or Boston U away from sitting at home for the tournament...and that wouldn't have been right.

I'm a little too young to remember the CC debacle. With regards to SCSU, I agree that it wouldn't seem right to have the WCHA co-champion miss the national tourney, especially considering how good their team is this year. But, if they did miss out, they would only have themselves to blame...split with RIT, swept by UNH, and, most painfully, swept by Northern Michigan. It's one thing to lay an egg for one non-conference series. It's another thing to do it for 3 of them.

[keikla]

It was Easter weekend, folks!

While that's a completely valid reason to miss the regional, it's not like there would have been 5,000+ fans there had it been the weekend prior or after.

[MafiaMan]

While that's a completely valid reason to miss the regional, it's not like there would have been 5,000+ fans there had it been the weekend prior or after.

Location more than the weekend itself was to blame. The Bradley Center in 1997 did quite well attendance-wise despite it also being Easter weekend.

[MafiaMan]

I'm a little too young to remember the CC debacle.

1993-1994, CC wins MacNaughton Cup with a 18-9-5 WCHA record and sports a 23-9-5 overall record. Two WCHA playoff losses to Michigan Tech later, one of the top teams in the country poll-wise doesn't make a list of the top 12 who qualify for the NCAA playoffs? Screw-job big-time!

I believe in a different thread earlier this season I pointed out the 1994-1995 season as the one where CC missed the playoffs. That was incorrect. MafiaMan regrets the error.

[krustyklown]

Reposted from another thread...

Fix the 'Regionals' attendance/poor student-athlete experience issue by dropping them altogether, instead select...

>sixteen teams via PWR: maintain bracket integrity (#1 vs #16, etc, except if intra-conference)

>best-of-three: top eight seeds playing vs. bottom eight seeds in top seeds' barn

>maintain two week break to accomodate the round ball tournament

>@predetermined sites (pre-bidded): call it the 'Iced Eight' or 'Elite Eight'

...starting Tuesday (two games) & Wednesday(two games)

-or-

>winners meet in 'Frozen Four' round on Thursday or Friday, championship on Saturday

...alternatively for Elite Eight games, one could schedule games on Tuesday @noon, 3pm, 6pm, 9pm, then

have the two Frozen Four games on Thursday, championship on Saturday

[keikla]

>winners meet in 'Frozen Four' round on Thursday or Friday, championship on Saturday

...alternatively for Elite Eight games, one could schedule games on Tuesday @noon, 3pm, 6pm, 9pm, then

have the two Frozen Four games on Thursday, championship on Saturday

While the initial games would likely do much better, asking people to get an entire week off (Mon-Sun including travel) at the last minute for the Elite Eight doesn't seem like it would help attendance.