ND Supreme Court Rules against the NDSBoHE

[82SiouxGuy]

you sound hopeful

I don't know who you're talking to, but I'm hopeful that the madness ends before anything real bad happens to UND. Something real bad would include the Big Sky deciding to get rid of UND. And the madness ending would mean letting UND move on and retire the nickname.

[Bison Dan]

Well if UND has a lot of fans out there with the mentiality of DaveK you're screwed!

[Teeder11]

Well if UND has a lot of fans out there with the mentiality of DaveK you're screwed!

Dave's not a UND fan. He's just obsessed with our "cool" nickname and logo. With friends like that ....

[Chewey]

Smart move (slippery?) by the AG but technically correct. All to date, people have associated "yes" with the nickname and logo. I can divine the marketing strategy - no means yes (as per the G.F. Herald) or "just vote no to NCAA bullying."

[Chewey]

Dave's not a UND fan. He's just obsessed with our "cool" nickname and logo. With friends like that ....

And I suppose being a fan means acquiescing to NCAA bullying and allowing the NCAA to rend your school history and a big part of your athletic program's tradition? I suppose being a fan means throwing in with a board and other related allies who a wont to swim in contradictions, misrepresentations and misstatements?

[darell1976]

And I suppose being a fan means acquiescing to NCAA bullying and allowing the NCAA to rend your school history and a big part of your athletic program's tradition? I suppose being a fan means throwing in with a board and other related allies who a wont to swim in contradictions, misrepresentations and misstatements?

Being a fan means supporting your school. If your school wants to retire the name you go along with it no matter what the situations are. I will always be a fan of Grand Forks Central, just because they were no longer the Redskins didn't mean I would be no longer a fan. I will be a fan of UND no matter what they are called. Yes we all agree the NCAA is very much corrupt but unless congress or the US Supreme Court (someone above the NCAA) steps in against them there is nothing that can be done.

[Fetch]

Sounds like an Alum. to me that has followed the ladder of total brainwashing to the pillars of Rome, just before it collasped - or a paid Minion of Kelly admin.

[Fetch]

you can sure tell the memo's are coming out - what to say - by the wizard behind the curtain

[MplsBison]

Now with the yes/no switch - I can see the vote coming in at 50-50. Then comes the debate "who really won?" and accusations of voter fraud. Then come the lawsuits.

[darell1976]

Sounds like an Alum. to me that has followed the ladder of total brainwashing to the pillars of Rome, just before it collasped - or a paid Minion of Kelly admin.

I am not an alumn of UND..just Aaker's Business College.

[Fetch]

I like you barely better

[Chewey]

Being a fan means supporting your school. If your school wants to retire the name you go along with it no matter what the situations are. I will always be a fan of Grand Forks Central, just because they were no longer the Redskins didn't mean I would be no longer a fan. I will be a fan of UND no matter what they are called. Yes we all agree the NCAA is very much corrupt but unless congress or the US Supreme Court (someone above the NCAA) steps in against them there is nothing that can be done.

Being a fan means advocating for your institution and not tolerating the intolerable or acquiescing to it. What is happening is completely analogous to a rape - not entirely figuratively speaking either. The difference is just bending over for it vs. fighting for your life against it, screaming and drawing some passers-by out of their lulled sensibilities to assist. My affiliation with our local women's and animal shelters, in part, informs my position on this. You don't stand for abuse - ever. If there were a unified clarion call by all against this business, there would be movement. Your position is flawed.

[Fetch]

I could use my sheep analogy here again but Ira ran off with both of them

[82SiouxGuy]

And I suppose being a fan means acquiescing to NCAA bullying and allowing the NCAA to rend your school history and a big part of your athletic program's tradition? I suppose being a fan means throwing in with a board and other related allies who a wont to swim in contradictions, misrepresentations and misstatements?

Dave has admitted that he would rather allow the UND athletic department be destroyed and shut down than lose the nickname. That means he isn't a UND fan, he is just a fan of the nickname.

[82SiouxGuy]

Being a fan means advocating for your institution and not tolerating the intolerable or acquiescing to it. What is happening is completely analogous to a rape - not entirely figuratively speaking either. The difference is just bending over for it vs. fighting for your life against it, screaming and drawing some passers-by out of their lulled sensibilities to assist. My affiliation with our local women's and animal shelters, in part, informs my position on this. You don't stand for abuse - ever. If there were a unified clarion call by all against this business, there would be movement. Your position is flawed.

I'm pretty sure that the people I know working with victims of violence and abuse would disagree with your analogy and would probably be horrified by the comparison.

[Chewey]

I'm pretty sure that the people I know working with victims of violence and abuse would disagree with your analogy and would probably be horrified by the comparison.

Not sure if "horrified" is something that would be a justifiable reaction to the comparison. It's a party of dominance and control asserting dominion and forcing conduct upon a weaker party and causing that party to suffer economic damages (in this case) and humility and shame (as if there ever was "shame" in the Fighting Sioux nickname). Sounds pretty similar to me. Oh, and by the way, the women I work with at the local CADA house concur with this analogy so it's been "vetted" by the best of them.

[Goon]

I understand that you can't comprehend how the sanctions will affect UND. You, and people like you, are going to be the reason for the death of the UND athletics program. As a UND fan and alum, I have a major problem with that, so you'll have to forgive me if I come across as bitter and full of resentment.

You could talk to DaveK till you're blue in the face you could show him the sanctions in writing and he still wouldn't believe you... Lost cause.

[Hawkster]

I hope The Herald does some polling to see how everyone is leaning, and more importantly, I hope they word the polling question the right way, NOT "Do you support or oppose the Sioux nickname". I'm in Minnesota and not close to the RR Valley, so I'm not getting any vibes here.

What really worries me is I remember a Poly Sci prof telling the class that if you want a NO vote on an issue in ND, put it on the Primary election. Seems that's when the die hards all vote and they vote no.

[82SiouxGuy]

Not sure if "horrified" is something that would be a justifiable reaction to the comparison. It's a party of dominance and control asserting dominion and forcing conduct upon a weaker party and causing that party to suffer economic damages (in this case) and humility and shame (as if there ever was "shame" in the Fighting Sioux nickname). Sounds pretty similar to me. Oh, and by the way, the women I work with at the local CADA house concur with this analogy so it's been "vetted" by the best of them.

I've seen people start crying when talking about things that have happened to victims of abuse. Or start crying just listening to the stories. People that have been abused have died. Victims lives can be totally destroyed, families torn apart. Fighting Sioux is a nickname. If they are crying over the possibility of losing a sports nickname they are overreacting. Losing a nickname isn't life and death, abuse can sometimes be life and death. I don't know anyone on either side of the Fighting Sioux nickname that are feeling individual humility or shame. And the athletic department itself isn't feeling humility or shame. Victims of abuse often feel both humility and shame. I haven't bothered to ask the people at CVIC about the nickname issue, but I have a pretty good idea about how they would feel on the comparison. People need to get some perspective on this issue.

[Teeder11]

I've seen people start crying when talking about things that have happened to victims of abuse. Or start crying just listening to the stories. People that have been abused have died. Victims lives can be totally destroyed, families torn apart. Fighting Sioux is a nickname. If they are crying over the possibility of losing a sports nickname they are overreacting. Losing a nickname isn't life and death, abuse can sometimes be life and death. I don't know anyone on either side of the Fighting Sioux nickname that are feeling individual humility or shame. And the athletic department itself isn't feeling humility or shame. Victims of abuse often feel both humility and shame. I haven't bothered to ask the people at CVIC about the nickname issue, but I have a pretty good idea about how they would feel on the comparison. People need to get some perspective on this issue.

I wouldn't take Chewy's lead and start. How would one even broach such an inconsequential topic like that in a setting like the CVIC? Probably goes down something like this: "So, how do you feel about that whole UND nickname situation? Kind of analogous to what you got going on in your life, huh, sweetheart?" Maybe it's different in other states' victims' shelters but it does seem kind of callous to go surveying feelings about UND's nickname in a place like that. Bigger issues should take precedence, I would venture. How did we get off on this exit in the whole nickname debate, anyway?

[Chewey]

I've seen people start crying when talking about things that have happened to victims of abuse. Or start crying just listening to the stories. People that have been abused have died. Victims lives can be totally destroyed, families torn apart. Fighting Sioux is a nickname. If they are crying over the possibility of losing a sports nickname they are overreacting. Losing a nickname isn't life and death, abuse can sometimes be life and death. I don't know anyone on either side of the Fighting Sioux nickname that are feeling individual humility or shame. And the athletic department itself isn't feeling humility or shame. Victims of abuse often feel both humility and shame. I haven't bothered to ask the people at CVIC about the nickname issue, but I have a pretty good idea about how they would feel on the comparison. People need to get some perspective on this issue.

Maybe those women should talk to the women here. The ones I know would probably say you're minimizing the issue; I certainly think you are. Call it a rape. Call it bullying. The bottom line is that you have one party forcing another party to do something it shouldn't have to do and, ultimately, doesn't want to do. That's the perspective. Saying that something is just this or just that is a hazardous, equivocating and insipid perspective. You could call a gay person some idiotic, homophobic epithet or you could call a black person a similar name and say it's just a word. Why are you allowing that simple word to have such control over you? In the end, it's a simple perspective - truly. It's a wrong and it is not to be tolerated. Capice?

[Chewey]

I wouldn't take Chewy's lead and start. How would one even broach such an inconsequential topic like that in a setting like the CVIC? Probably goes down something like this: "So, how do you feel about that whole UND nickname situation? Kind of analogous to what you got going on in your life, huh, sweetheart?" Maybe it's different in other states' victims' shelters but it does seem kind of callous to go surveying feelings about UND's nickname in a place like that. Bigger issues should take precedence, I would venture. How did we get off on this exit in the whole nickname debate, anyway?

It's simple really. Abuse in varying degrees. Tolerating abuses eventually can wind up in tolerating bigger abuses. It's like erosion and one gets desensitized to it. It's beyond the realm of possibility that a counselor or two graduated from UND?

[Teeder11]

Maybe those women should talk to the women here. The ones I know would probably say you're minimizing the issue; I certainly think you are. Call it a rape. Call it bullying. The bottom line is that you have one party forcing another party to do something it shouldn't have to do and, ultimately, doesn't want to do. That's the perspective. Saying that something is just this or just that is a hazardous, equivocating and insipid perspective. You could call a gay person some idiotic, homophobic epithet or you could call a black person a similar name and say it's just a word. Why are you allowing that simple word to have such control over you? In the end, it's a simple perspective - truly. It's a wrong and it is not to be tolerated. Capice?

The only party forcing anyone to do something it doesn't want to do is the state Legislature (and by extension the petitioners who forced the ballot question -- which is the people's right and I support the exercise, just not happy with the result), which is forcing the SBOHE, and by extension UND, to retain an athletic nickname is can't afford to keep. The NCAA isn't even "raping" anyone in this case. They haven't told UND that it has to do anything. For all the NCAA cares, UND can be the Fighting Sioux forever and ever. All they have ever said is that if you want to be in our club, you have to play by our rules, and here are the guidelines. Capice?

[UNDBIZ]

I like you barely better

You dislike people just because they're UND alums?? Please become a "fan" of a different team and go bother them, UND doesn't want you.

[UNDBIZ]

Being a fan means advocating for your institution and not tolerating the intolerable or acquiescing to it. What is happening is completely analogous to a rape - not entirely figuratively speaking either. The difference is just bending over for it vs. fighting for your life against it, screaming and drawing some passers-by out of their lulled sensibilities to assist. My affiliation with our local women's and animal shelters, in part, informs my position on this. You don't stand for abuse - ever. If there were a unified clarion call by all against this business, there would be movement. Your position is flawed.

You're comparing the loss of a nickname to rape. Your position is flawed...