ND Supreme Court Rules against the NDSBoHE

[UNDBIZ]

I understand that you've been swayed over to the PC side of things via the scare tactics. You, and people like you, are going to be the reason for the death of the Fighting Sioux athletics program. As a Fighting Sioux fan I have a major problem with that, so you'll have to forgive me if I come across as bitter and full of resentment.

I understand that you can't comprehend how the sanctions will affect UND. You, and people like you, are going to be the reason for the death of the UND athletics program. As a UND fan and alum, I have a major problem with that, so you'll have to forgive me if I come across as bitter and full of resentment.

[82SiouxGuy]

I understand that you can't comprehend how the sanctions will affect UND. You, and people like you, are going to be the reason for the death of the UND athletics program. As a UND fan and alum, I have a major problem with that, so you'll have to forgive me if I come across as bitter and full of resentment.

What he said^^^^.

[Hayduke]

What he said^^^^.

Ditto.

[82SiouxGuy]

I understand that you've been swayed over to the PC side of things via the scare tactics. You, and people like you, are going to be the reason for the death of the Fighting Sioux athletics program. As a Fighting Sioux fan I have a major problem with that, so you'll have to forgive me if I come across as bitter and full of resentment.

Considering your lack of knowledge of the law and all things legal, and your willingness to destroy the University of North Dakota athletic department to keep a nickname, I will trust my instincts and the instincts of people with a lot more knowledge of the situation like Dale Lennon, Tim O'Keefe, Chris Mussman, etc. I am much more concerned about the future of the University of North Dakota and its athletics program than I am the Fighting Sioux nickname. And you come off as a lot of other things more than you come off as bitter and full of resentment.

[watchmaker49]

FYI, y'all... the ballot language has changed. "Yes", means drop the name ... "no" means keep it and watch UND athletics slowly decline.*

http://www.inforum.c...group/homepage/

* a littl editorializing by yours truly.

Whose on first? I don't know. I Don't Know is on second.

[JohnboyND7]

The NC$$ has shown time and again they have no problem sanctioning one school/state one way and another school/state in a completely different way. Just because that's how the statewide sanctions were implemented for SC doesn't mean that's how they would be for ND.

They wouldn't deny NDSU, Mary, or Minot State the right to host a playoff game because of another school's troubles. Maybe not allow the state to host NCAA tournements but its not like we do anyway. They tell NDSU that we can't host the Summit track tournement? I think we'll survive. They tell NDSU we can't host the Summit Basketball Tourney? Not like we are going to get it anyway.

[82SiouxGuy]

They wouldn't deny NDSU, Mary, or Minot State the right to host a playoff game because of another school's troubles. Maybe not allow the state to host NCAA tournements but its not like we do anyway. They tell NDSU that we can't host the Summit track tournement? I think we'll survive. They tell NDSU we can't host the Summit Basketball Tourney? Not like we are going to get it anyway.

I bolded the problem word with your post. They shouldn't do that. They probably won't do that. But never say that they won't do it, because over the past decade or so we have learned that the NCAA will do almost anything. Never say never with them.

[Chewey]

I just got an email back from President Kelley, in my letter I told him if he would go against the state law since there is no said penalty or if the NCAA could sanction the state...here is his response:

Looks like whatever the Board tells him to do he has to do it, and not to do anything other than what the board says.

To just go against the law is exactly what the other side would want. That's the one thing the SBoHE has done right. Don't you think that would play right into the hands of those who want to wrest full control of the university system back to the Legislative branch (where it should be in my opinion)? Protected turf inhabited by sanctimonious, self-righteous, supercilious, smarter-than-thou types (see professors and administrators who have not had a fresh thought in over 30 years feeding on the public tit and protected by tenure and, no doubt, a union of some sort) is not the sort of milieu in which one will find reasoned debate, rational thought or tolerance for differences of opinion which translates, because of aforesaid protection, into lack of accountability to the people. Academia is bloated and inefficient and its membership needs to be culled thoroughly. When you have "courses" in "whiteness studies" and "gender studies" and many other areas ordained by sheer political correctness rather than common sense, you know that you have a "Houston, we have a problem" situation. How is this crap going to allow people to produce a widget cheaper and more efficiently than the Chinese or Indians? How does it stimulate and serve to augment the creative muse which serves as the source for the development of innovation? It doesn't. Academia needs to be taken back from the so-called academics and given back to the people who are paying the freight. For North Dakota's sake, I would hope that President Kelley and the SBoHE do exactly as Darrell petitioned.

[Chewey]

I understand that you can't comprehend how the sanctions will affect UND. You, and people like you, are going to be the reason for the death of the UND athletics program. As a UND fan and alum, I have a major problem with that, so you'll have to forgive me if I come across as bitter and full of resentment.

The English circa 1940 could have said the same thing and acquiesced to an histrionic perspective of extinction. Fortunately, they had resolve and willpower. If the vote goes against the SBoHE, what happens? The Big Sky schools change their schedules only to have legal exposure and have presumed damages to UND suddenly become liquidated? Not going to happen.

[82SiouxGuy]

UND athletics without the Fighting Sioux nickname attached to it is tainted, plain and simple. The mere fact that you would be so quick to accept a bastardized 2nd rate version of the team that we have come to know and love for so many years is sickening beyond belief!!! You are no Sioux fan, and the same goes for anybody else who shares your cowardly view on this topic.

UND athletics is the student athletes, and the coaches and the trainers and the other staff. It isn't the nickname. It is the tradition of success, both in the classroom and in competition. It isn't the nickname. It is the cheerleaders and the band. It isn't the nickname. It is the fans that support the athletes, the donors that provide financial support, and the alumni that have been part of the tradition. It isn't the nickname. Your concept of TEAM is absolutely unique, and about as far from reality as is possible.

The nickname doesn't score points. It doesn't block or tackle. It doesn't make passes. It doesn't stop pucks. It doesn't run fast. It doesn't swim or dive. It doesn't hit home runs. It doesn't sink putts. It doesn't win games or matches. It's just a nickname. It's a great marketing tool and is very popular. But it isn't the team. And it isn't the athletic program.

Anyone that believes the teams would be 2nd rate versions just because the nickname changes doesn't understand anything about sports. Ask the players. Ask the coaches. Ask anyone actually involved in the program and they will tell you. The Fighting Sioux nickname is a part of the athletic program and has been for many years. But the program will go on and be successful without it.

[82SiouxGuy]

The English circa 1940 could have said the same thing and acquiesced to an histrionic perspective of extinction. Fortunately, they had resolve and willpower. If the vote goes against the SBoHE, what happens? The Big Sky schools change their schedules only to have legal exposure and have presumed damages to UND suddenly become liquidated? Not going to happen.

The Big Sky has a method to remove a school if they so desire. The method for removing full members is in the bylaws. We don't know if they have a separate policy for removing incoming members. UND would not have a case for damages if they are removed by the process in place. There is absolutely no guarantee that UND gets to keep the games on the schedule through 2016. That schedule is for conference members. If UND is no longer a member they would not have rights to those games. It is doubtful that the Big Sky would cancel game scheduled for 2012-2013 just because it is getting late to fill those games for the conference members, but they could be turned into non-conference games. Games beyond that could easily be cancelled and the Big Sky would have no risk of losing a lawsuit if they follow their own policies. Is threatening a lawsuit the only way you think that you can get something done?

[watchmaker49]

The Big Sky has a method to remove a school if they so desire. The method for removing full members is in the bylaws. We don't know if they have a separate policy for removing incoming members. UND would not have a case for damages if they are removed by the process in place. There is absolutely no guarantee that UND gets to keep the games on the schedule through 2016. That schedule is for conference members. If UND is no longer a member they would not have rights to those games. It is doubtful that the Big Sky would cancel game scheduled for 2012-2013 just because it is getting late to fill those games for the conference members, but they could be turned into non-conference games. Games beyond that could easily be cancelled and the Big Sky would have no risk of losing a lawsuit if they follow their own policies. Is threatening a lawsuit the only way you think that you can get something done?

You expect anything less from a small town lawyer whose even appeals DUI cases, which he lost by the way.

[82SiouxGuy]

You expect anything less from a small town lawyer whose even appeals DUI cases, which he lost by the way.

That's the kind of lawyer that gives attorneys a bad name.

[watchmaker49]

That's the kind of lawyer that gives attorneys a bad name.

Or why they practice in towns with populations of 4,000 or less.

[Hawkster]

I TOLD YOU SO. For months I said YES would mean No nickname, and No would mean the nickname stays.

[82SiouxGuy]

I TOLD YOU SO. For months I said YES would mean No nickname, and No would mean the nickname stays.

Congratulations, you were right. Let's all vote YES.

[Chewey]

You expect anything less from a small town lawyer whose even appeals DUI cases, which he lost by the way.

I did not know I was in the peanut gallery until now. Give it up already. You don't know who I am. Whomever this small town lawyer is, he must have gotten one over on you at some point which, quite obviously, is probably not that hard to do.

[Hawkster]

Congratulations, you were right. Let's all vote YES.

Yes, yes, yes.

[ScottM]

The English circa 1940 could have said the same thing and acquiesced to an histrionic perspective of extinction. Fortunately, they had resolve and willpower. If the vote goes against the SBoHE, what happens? The Big Sky schools change their schedules only to have legal exposure and have presumed damages to UND suddenly become liquidated? Not going to happen.

Really? You've read the agreement with BSC? Much like the NC$$, it's their ball, their park and their rules. UND is has no right to be a member of either organization. If UND's sanctions adversely impact other BSC schools, you can bet your bar card they'll kick UND to the curb.

[Chewey]

That's the kind of lawyer that gives attorneys a bad name.

Contracts have damages clauses and UND and BS signed one while UND's teams were referred to as the Fighting Sioux. Was there some provision in the contract indicating that UND would change the name? Was there some provision that the schedule was set forth with the understanding, in writing, that the name would be changed? Not following contracts has consequences. Call it litigious. Call it unreasonable. Or, as the cognitively somnambulant Watchmaker, rail against some obscure small town lawyer who got the better of one's small town capabilities. But, it's still a contract we're discussing.

As to the proposed

[watchmaker49]

I did not know I was in the peanut gallery until now. Give it up already. You don't know who I am. Whomever this small town lawyer is, he must have gotten one over on you at some point which, quite obviously, is probably not that hard to do.

More like you are saying how the hell does he know who I am. I have connections at the UND law school.

[choyt3]

Who gives a $hit who's who. Congrats, you know who Chewey is. Big effing deal.

[Chewey]

More like you are saying how the hell does he know who I am. I have connections at the UND law school.

Wonderful! Some purpose finally. Too bad your "connections" don't translate cognitively.

[82SiouxGuy]

Contracts have damages clauses and UND and BS signed one while UND's teams were referred to as the Fighting Sioux. Was there some provision in the contract indicating that UND would change the name? Was there some provision that the schedule was set forth with the understanding, in writing, that the name would be changed? Not following contracts has consequences. Call it litigious. Call it unreasonable. Or, as the cognitively somnambulant Watchmaker, rail against some obscure small town lawyer who got the better of one's small town capabilities. But, it's still a contract we're discussing.

As to the proposed

First, it had been announced that UND was giving up the Fighting Sioux nickname on a date effective before UND would become a full member of the Big Sky. The Conference had a reasonable expectation that this would happen. Second, the Big Sky can remove a school as long as they follow their procedures. And they make their own procedures. For instance, they could easily pass a conference policy that a school that is on the NCAA Native American sanctions list and therefore on NCAA sanctions is not eligible to be a full member of the conference. Or they could just use Article IV Section 3 of the bylaws. That article says that membership in the Conference is based on active institutional control of athletics. UND doesn't have active institutional control of their own nickname. Either way, the Big Sky could expel or suspend UND. And it only takes a 2/3 majority to suspend a school.

[Fetch]

you sound hopeful