PhillySioux Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 The question could just as well be: " would you guys hire a coach that was fired from his last FCS level job for taking a over a healthy playoff contending program and subsequently running it in to the ground?" No, no, a thousand times no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperman8 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 The question could just as well be: " would you guys hire a coach that was fired from his last FCS level job for taking a over a healthy playoff contending program and subsequently running it in to the ground?" No, no, a thousand times no. If we were talking about Dale I would say yes, yes, a thousand times yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxFanatic Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 If we were talking about Dale I would say yes, yes, a thousand times yes. I'd say no. He made his own bed. It was his decision to try and find greener pastures. Certainly nothing against doing that but at this point if Mussman is let go, I believe that there is someone out there that would be better for UND than opening our arms and letting Lennon return(which would require him to be fired or him voluntarily resigning from SIU). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 You have to remember Muss is trying to weed out the DII players while filtering in the DI players. Transition takes a toll on a team and yes some have great success in transition (NDSU) and some not so much (SDSU), we need to see how we do when there is playoffs at the end of the road not just a conference title. With a little more enthusiasm (I think players know about the 7 win DI to make the playoffs rule (most the of time)) they will show it more on the field. Coaches can only do 1 thing coach, its up to the players to perform. Mussman is not passing, or running, or catching. So maybe we need to take a step back look a the team next season in the Big Sky with a schedule 1000 times better than this one and see how we do. If we pull a UNC then maybe a change is needed in recruiting and coaching, if we somehow are up at the top maybe Muss is taking his time in making this team better...Roger Thomas did that with UND from 2-9 in 1986 to overtaking NDSU in 1993. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 You have to remember Muss is trying to weed out the DII players while filtering in the DI players. Transition takes a toll on a team and yes some have great success in transition (NDSU) and some not so much (SDSU), we need to see how we do when there is playoffs at the end of the road not just a conference title. With a little more enthusiasm (I think players know about the 7 win DI to make the playoffs rule (most the of time)) they will show it more on the field. Coaches can only do 1 thing coach, its up to the players to perform. Mussman is not passing, or running, or catching. So maybe we need to take a step back look a the team next season in the Big Sky with a schedule 1000 times better than this one and see how we do. If we pull a UNC then maybe a change is needed in recruiting and coaching, if we somehow are up at the top maybe Muss is taking his time in making this team better...Roger Thomas did that with UND from 2-9 in 1986 to overtaking NDSU in 1993. The problem with that theory is that we just struggled to beat the 32nd-ranked dII team in the country (per Massey) this past Saturday. Other than in 2002, that kind of thing rarely happened at home even when we were dII. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 The problem with that theory is that we just struggled to beat the 32nd-ranked dII team in the country (per Massey) this past Saturday. Other than in 2002, that kind of thing rarely happened at home even when we were dII. Would you chalk that up to bad recruiting or bad coaching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Would you chalk that up to bad recruiting or bad coaching? I'm not in a position to make that call. But regardless of the reason, I'm a bit troubled that we would struggle so much to beat a soon-to-be NSIC team, particularly considering what we used to routinely do to Winona State (the NSIC's best program prior to the breakup of the NCC). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ole in MSP Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I'm not in a position to make that call. But regardless of the reason, I'm a bit troubled that we would struggle so much to beat a soon-to-be NSIC team, particularly considering what we used to routinely do to Winona State (the NSIC's best program prior to the breakup of the NCC). Yes, we destroyed Winona a couple times in a row. If they are the measuring stick for the NSIC, which has had the National champ the last few years, we, UND are in trouble. I am seriously confused, whether the Sioux are any good or any bad. NDSU is not as good as they think and Minnesota is not as bad as people think. I love college FB, but I think it has become the NFL incognito. To MONEY oriented. I am not a Muss fan, but I think college FB overall is a mess. There are the elite programs in D1 and everybody else. Everybody else is just a mess. The NCAA and MONEY have screwed up what was a great pastime. UND should just continue to get better or as good as they can be. The NSIC is getting better athletes as a result of the Dakota 4 moving up. The difference in quality remains subject to question though. Would the UMD teams of the last few years match up against UND and NDSU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Yes, we destroyed Winona a couple times in a row. If they are the measuring stick for the NSIC, which has had the National champ the last few years, we, UND are in trouble. I am seriously confused, whether the Sioux are any good or any bad. NDSU is not as good as they think and Minnesota is not as bad as people think. I love college FB, but I think it has become the NFL incognito. To MONEY oriented. I am not a Muss fan, but I think college FB overall is a mess. There are the elite programs in D1 and everybody else. Everybody else is just a mess. The NCAA and MONEY have screwed up what was a great pastime. UND should just continue to get better or as good as they can be. The NSIC is getting better athletes as a result of the Dakota 4 moving up. The difference in quality remains subject to question though. Would the UMD teams of the last few years match up against UND and NDSU? In UND's last five years as a dII program, there were a total of 16 home games played vs. current NSIC teams (most of which obviously were NCC teams at the time). UND went 16-0 in those games, with an average score of 37-8. UND also went 10-1 on the road during that time period vs. current NSIC teams (SCSU in 2004 being the only loss). Would we see similar results now? I highly, highly doubt it. Maybe UND has overlooked too many MN/WI/SD kids since the start of the transition? I never hear anything about losing recruiting battles to NSIC schools, so presumably they are taking the "leftovers", and doing quite well with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Would you chalk that up to bad recruiting or bad coaching? Recruiting is a part of coaching...but I know what you mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 You have to remember Muss is trying to weed out the DII players while filtering in the DI players. Transition takes a toll on a team and yes some have great success in transition (NDSU) and some not so much (SDSU), we need to see how we do when there is playoffs at the end of the road not just a conference title. With a little more enthusiasm (I think players know about the 7 win DI to make the playoffs rule (most the of time)) they will show it more on the field. Coaches can only do 1 thing coach, its up to the players to perform. Mussman is not passing, or running, or catching. So maybe we need to take a step back look a the team next season in the Big Sky with a schedule 1000 times better than this one and see how we do. If we pull a UNC then maybe a change is needed in recruiting and coaching, if we somehow are up at the top maybe Muss is taking his time in making this team better...Roger Thomas did that with UND from 2-9 in 1986 to overtaking NDSU in 1993. Actually, the head coach has total control over the program. He hires the assistants, approves the schemes run, oversees recruiting of all players, manages the game, and imparts an overall philosophy and attitude on the team. To say the coach does only one thing is totally incorrect. True, he can't suit up, but he controls who does. If a team doesn't have a division I quarterback, that's on the head coach, if players underperform - well the head coach brought them in, if the team can't get fired up - head coach again. Another way of saying this team is just a quarterback away (It would help, but there are other issues) is "our coaches didn't recruit anyone who could be an outstanding quarterback at this level. Like it or not it is all on Muss. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDColorado Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Maybe we should have a little faith and see if the boys can finish out with two more FCS wins. If we lose them both then yes we should probably hit the panic button. That said I would be lying if I said I wasn't a bit worried. A wise man once told me that in these situations 'time will tell." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ole in MSP Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Actually, the head coach has total control over the program. He hires the assistants, approves the schemes run, oversees recruiting of all players, manages the game, and imparts an overall philosophy and attitude on the team. To say the coach does only one thing is totally incorrect. True, he can't suit up, but he controls who does. If a team doesn't have a division I quarterback, that's on the head coach, if players underperform - well the head coach brought them in, if the team can't get fired up - head coach again. Another way of saying this team is just a quarterback away (It would help, but there are other issues) is "our coaches didn't recruit anyone who could be an outstanding quarterback at this level. Like it or not it is all on Muss. Amen, the bottom line is the recruiting of quality QB's or lack of AND every other position is on the back of the Head coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iramurphy Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Head coach doesn't have total control over the program he has the resposibility for the overall program. Same head coach getting criticized landed the area's top QB this year and we are getting a number of other good early commits. Pretty difficult to judge someone's recruiting ability during transition but having said that we have who we have and we have not had good play from the QB position. Dale Lennon was an excellent coach but his biggest mistake as a UND coach was not playing Reed Manke as a Soph. He played Belmore who was a great kid, good athlete and had some decent games. He watched these guys everyday in practice and struggled with the decision. It isn't always as easy as it seems. That goes for other levels including the pros. Look at all of the sure things QB's who went bust (DeMarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf are two of the biggest). The Sioux have been OK this season. Should have won the Cal Poly game and are capable of beating Cal Davis and SDak. We need to see improvement year to year and I would say two years from now will be the key year, If we lay an egg next year or regress then that changes things. Coaches don't tend to return to their former schools so I think this question is moot. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I, for one, miss Dale. But I don't believe he will ever be back at UND. Here is what he said after beating UNI as a D2 team: North Dakota Head Coach Dale Lennon "We came in intending to win the game. We prepared to win and that was our attitude all week." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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