Conference Realignments - Take 2

[Cratter]

UNO isn't getting into the MVC as long as Creighton is there.

Not even in 15 years? Creighton won't allow it?

UNO will be playing their games in the 9,300 seat Omaha Civic Auditorium following in Creightons footsteps.

[darell1976]

You also just gained Omaha and instead of Notre Dame you got St. Cloud so I believe you picked up a school you didn't really want either. You have a bad habit of grouping all NDSU fans into one. I have never dismissed your hockey titles nor would I ever. I could fire back at you with NDSU winning 8 titles in football and then wait for you do dismiss them because they are from so long ago and were won while still in D2. It can go on like this forever so why even do it? I don't understand how you justify NCC schools being in your conference because they have been in DI for a number of years while dismissing their other programs who are just making the move. They are still former NCC schools who have played pretty good hockey throughout the years and have had success at the D2 level. Now their other programs finally have an opportunity to play at the same level as their hockey teams. Why are the former NCC schools so inferior to you when they are playing in sports other than hockey? Do UNO and SCSU have different schools for the kids in hockey than the ones in all other sports? Do you think these former NCC schools would be as successful in DI hockey if there were over 300 schools participating? My point is we both have the same number of former NCC schools in our respective conferences and even a couple of the same. It is true that they have done some pretty good things in hockey but that doesn't mean that after a few years competing in DI they won't start playing some pretty good ball either. UND will eventually be playing these schools for OOC games and with the smack you are laying down you better hope they don't catch up.

Is it not NDSU fans that rip on UND playing teams in the same division at St. Cloud and Mankato? Yes it was too bad ND went east instead of our conference, and we were stuck with St. Cloud, but I thought going DI NDSU and SDSU wanted to get "away" from teams like Omaha and St. Cloud, and now one is in the Summit because UNL won't let them have football (thanks to Trev Alberts), and the other is in the NSIC. You lost a team that danced 3 times in the last 6 years and would replace that team with Mankato or St. Cloud?? Omaha is replacing SUU...don't you see that your conference is going to be the worst in basketball since its not a basketball rich conference. SUU, IUPUI, ORU, NDSU, and Oakland are the only current members to ever "dance" from the Summit. Now you lose 2 of them. Replaced by Omaha so far. I have nothing against the NCC it was the best in DII (IMO!!) but that was DII this is DI. There is only 1 positive thing the Summit has going for them and that is baseball. BSC is the only conference not to sponsor it. They are sponsoring softball effective 2012, but thats where the line is drawn on major sports. I don't know how both stack up to volleyball or track. But in basketball the Big Sky is now clearing going to be better than the Summit..and more stable too.

[RD17]

I seriously doubt that the MVC would take USD or SDSU before NDSU.

Take a look at a map. The MVC is in contiguous states. The league works because it has great basketball within a tight geographic footprint. There is no way it leapfrogs South Dakota to take NDSU.

[star2city]

NDSU should have been in the Big Sky in 2003. Fullerton or the Presidents were too focused on Geography and not focused on institutions as they apparently are now. No one can tell me with a straight face the UNC has more to offer a FCS conference than NDSU.

Northern Colorado has actually given the Big Sky major dividends: Altitude Network broadcasts and some games on Fox regional. The inclusion of Northern Colorado brought the Big Sky into the 21st Century as far as media interests. NDSU is still stuck in the 20th Century as far as media.

Northern Colorado is also the school that allowed UND to be part of the Big Sky: as Northern Colorado is the school that bridges into the plains region.

If Big Sky Presidents had to do it all over, there is no question that they would have brought in Northern Colorado again.

[darell1976]

My friends at USD all hate Terry Vandrovec, as they believe hes in the bag for the Jacks. Here he has some thoughts on UND and conferences.

http://ia700700.us.archive.org/34/items/TerryVandrovec8Oct.25th2011SportsBlock/TerryVandrovecOct.25th2011.mp3

I don't see how we left the Summit on poor terms...we told them we are cancelling the on-site visit because we got accepted into the BSC. Its not like we wasted their time by flying them up and then doing the tour and at the end saying oh by the way we choose Big Sky bye bye. This guy is an idiot.

[RD17]

My friends at USD all hate Terry Vandrovec, as they believe hes in the bag for the Jacks. Here he has some thoughts on UND and conferences.

http://ia700700.us.archive.org/34/items/TerryVandrovec8Oct.25th2011SportsBlock/TerryVandrovecOct.25th2011.mp3

He just doesn't get it. UND didn't/doesn't want the Summit because a) the Big Sky is more prestigious and b) it offers a home for football.

Vandrovec has worked in Fargo and Sioux Falls so he has apparently become indoctrinated into the COU complex that dominates those two communities. To those who think like Vandrovec, UND should be willing to put aside its own self interest (having a league for football in particular) to be part of what Fargo, Sioux Falls and the other Dakota schools see as important.

[star2city]

What makes you think the MVC will ever come knocking? You do realize that the MVC hasn't added a school in 17 years and has had just one departure in the last 26 years?

If the MVC announced tomorrow it was expanding, it would have interest from probably a dozen or more schools, with NDSU way down on its list. If the MVC ever did decide to expand northward, NDSU would be third in line behind USD and SDSU just based on geography.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if Taylor et al would have been smart enough to allow Summit football to happen as a parallel league to the MVFC, future stability could have been created for the Summit League as a whole.

Without football, the Summit is and forever will be nothing more than a "starter" league that everyone seeks to escape at its first opportunity. Thank goodness that UND skipped that step in the process.

Exactly. Because WIU/NDSU/SDSU refuse to consider a Summit football league, they are the very schools forever consigning the Summit to mediocrity.

By not sponsoring football, NDSU and the Summit are effectively rejecting schools like Grand Valley St, Saginaw Valley St, Wayne St (MI), as well as Mn-Duluth, and MIAA schools. If the Summit could get two schools like GVSU and UMD, it could really stabilize its footprint, but the politics of the Summit League and of NDSU/SDSU/WIU prevent that from ever happening. A MVFC with six remaining members would have to have a cross-scheduling agreement with a Summit football league. Each league would have an autobid. Win-win-win, except for NDSU / SDSU that think they can get in the MVC for basketball.

On Bisonville, fans are coming out of the woodwork that somehow think that NDSU will get in the MVC or that the MVC will agree to a Summit scheduling arrangement. Not sure if a fan base can be more delusional than that. Membership in the MVC when they have a basketball shed with amenities comparable to a hog farrowing operation? Unreal. Even the new remodeled BSA -and who knows when that will ever have funds - won't be of the caliber that the MVC demands.

[star2city]

Not even in 15 years? Creighton won't allow it?

UNO will be playing their games in the 9,300 seat Omaha Civic Auditorium following in Creightons footsteps.

Not only Creighton won't allow it, but the other schools won't want it either. Adding another Omaha school would do nothing for the MVC TV contracts, would potentially weaken Creighton basketball (which the other schools don't want to see), and doesn't expand the conference footprint, and does nothing to expand recruiting.

If Creighton left (for Big East basketball), then the MVC view on Omaha changes entirely.

There's a reason that Villanova is fighting tooth-and-nail to prevent Temple's admission to the Big East: why give another school in the same market all the advantages of being top dog in that market?

[star2city]

I don't see how we left the Summit on poor terms...we told them we are cancelling the on-site visit because we got accepted into the BSC. Its not like we wasted their time by flying them up and then doing the tour and at the end saying oh by the way we choose Big Sky bye bye. This guy is an idiot.

Kelley and Douple are now arch enemies: as both have accused the other of being a liar in the media.

Douple has a lot of dirt on the SBoHE, Chapman, Kelley, and the nickname situation. Douple would unleash a major scandal in ND if NDSU ever tried to leave the Summit for the Big Sky. Therefore, NDSU knows it can't leave the Summit while Douple is still commissioner.

[Risky]

I listened to Terry Vandervoc's interview. I did have to chuckle when he talked about UND getting back into the good graces of the Summit and how we left. The only reason it came down the way it did was the way the Summit toyed with UND. If they hadn't played games with us, UND would have already been in the Summit. It kind of backfired on them. It never dawned on the Summit that the Big Sky would come after UND. They kind of got what they deserved. The end result is UND got in the league that they never dreamed they would have a chance to get into. It worked out great for UND. Not so good for the Summit.

[star2city]

He just doesn't get it. UND didn't/doesn't want the Summit because a) the Big Sky is more prestigious and b) it offers a home for football.

Vandrovec has worked in Fargo and Sioux Falls so he has apparently become indoctrinated into the COU complex that dominates those two communities. To those who think like Vandrovec, UND should be willing to put aside its own self interest (having a league for football in particular) to be part of what Fargo, Sioux Falls and the other Dakota schools see as important.

Vandrovec is a Kolpack mini-me (or is it the other way around).

Both demanded UND be NDSU's biotch during NDSU's transition, but then also thought NDSU had no future obligation to play UND after NDSU's transition or during a (then) possible UND transition.

[The Sicatoka]

... I could fire back at you with NDSU winning 8 titles in football ...

And you'd be off.

NDSU won five on the field.

The three other titles are "came in first in the last poll and there's no playoff" titles.

(And UND fans know about being #1 in the last poll before the playoffs.)

[UND1983]

Does Little Terry understand that the Sioux did not have a confirmed invite from the MVFC? Without that the Summit was even more worthless than it already was. The guys think pretty highly of himself, that much is obvious.

[johnson]

Is it not NDSU fans that rip on UND playing teams in the same division at St. Cloud and Mankato? Yes it was too bad ND went east instead of our conference, and we were stuck with St. Cloud, but I thought going DI NDSU and SDSU wanted to get "away" from teams like Omaha and St. Cloud, and now one is in the Summit because UNL won't let them have football (thanks to Trev Alberts), and the other is in the NSIC. You lost a team that danced 3 times in the last 6 years and would replace that team with Mankato or St. Cloud?? Omaha is replacing SUU...don't you see that your conference is going to be the worst in basketball since its not a basketball rich conference. SUU, IUPUI, ORU, NDSU, and Oakland are the only current members to ever "dance" from the Summit. Now you lose 2 of them. Replaced by Omaha so far. I have nothing against the NCC it was the best in DII (IMO!!) but that was DII this is DI. There is only 1 positive thing the Summit has going for them and that is baseball. BSC is the only conference not to sponsor it. They are sponsoring softball effective 2012, but thats where the line is drawn on major sports. I don't know how both stack up to volleyball or track. But in basketball the Big Sky is now clearing going to be better than the Summit..and more stable too.

I have already stated that the SU's didn't leave to distance themselves from the NCC. Some fans have said that in the past and it was simply incorrect. The two schools didn't have that mindset when leaving. The majority of conversations that I have been a part of when some of those comments were made were in response to UND fans smacking the teams NDSU was playing while in transition. The majority of comments I have seen recently about "moving on" are more from the Lakes type than from any level headed fan.

ORU has dominated the Summit in the past and now things aren't going in the direction they wanted it to. They have complained about having to play in the upper midwest for a few years now and have been really upset that the conference tournaments are being relocated up north. Their coaches and players have made comments about having to play a bunch of upper midwest teams full of white kids who play in cracker jack box stadiums. Their attendance for BB games is falling and I would be willing to bet that recruiting is getting a little more difficult now with the league migrating north away from their area. The SU's have won a few games already in the Summit tourney and have won the whole thing a couple of times already while being relatively young in DI and it is only a matter of time before they get established enough to take the place of what ORU has already done. Both SU's have more support than ORU and also have a much more rabbid fanbase. The same could be said of some of the new schools coming into the league as well. I have stated that losing ORU hurts and it isn't ideal to lose them just yet but I have seen stats that have shown that the league will still be rank about the same as it has without ORU as a member. It isn't as if ORU is a huge national power. They are simply a recognizable name for an average fan who knows a little bit about college athletics. The league will now have a group of teams very close together and some have a long history before the DI move. In time just like both of our schools they will eventually get through the first few years of being a newbie with D2 athleticism and start making some progress.

USD and Omaha are replacing SUU and Centenary. USD and Omaha are better products than Centenary and Omaha just dropped FB and Wrestling so you know they aren't going to let the remaining programs fail. If anything they are going to work their rears off early to justify the move. Omaha has a lot to prove now and they are going to want to compare themselves to their local counter part in Creighton. We all know it will be a hard road for them to do that but by doing what they did they have to succeed quickly and it seems to me that they are wanting to compete for fans in that town. This move could eventually make that happen years down the road.

The Summit is obviously not the Ideal conference for everyone and it is too bad that the MVC isn't more willing to make a move like the BSC. But to think that the Summit will be the worst conference in DI is far from accurate. Who knows what will happen when the big schools figure out where they are going to go. Ten years ago I didn't think either ND school would be having these types of conversations involving DI and now look where we both are today.

[johnson]

And you'd be off.

NDSU won five on the field.

The three other titles are "came in first in the last poll and there's no playoff" titles.

(And UND fans know about being #1 in the last poll before the playoffs.)

Thanks for the correction.

[darell1976]

I have already stated that the SU's didn't leave to distance themselves from the NCC. Some fans have said that in the past and it was simply incorrect. The two schools didn't have that mindset when leaving. The majority of conversations that I have been a part of when some of those comments were made were in response to UND fans smacking the teams NDSU was playing while in transition. The majority of comments I have seen recently about "moving on" are more from the Lakes type than from any level headed fan.

ORU has dominated the Summit in the past and now things aren't going in the direction they wanted it to. They have complained about having to play in the upper midwest for a few years now and have been really upset that the conference tournaments are being relocated up north. Their coaches and players have made comments about having to play a bunch of upper midwest teams full of white kids who play in cracker jack box stadiums. Their attendance for BB games is falling and I would be willing to bet that recruiting is getting a little more difficult now with the league migrating north away from their area. The SU's have won a few games already in the Summit tourney and have won the whole thing a couple of times already while being relatively young in DI and it is only a matter of time before they get established enough to take the place of what ORU has already done. Both SU's have more support than ORU and also have a much more rabbid fanbase. The same could be said of some of the new schools coming into the league as well. I have stated that losing ORU hurts and it isn't ideal to lose them just yet but I have seen stats that have shown that the league will still be rank about the same as it has without ORU as a member. It isn't as if ORU is a huge national power. They are simply a recognizable name for an average fan who knows a little bit about college athletics. The league will now have a group of teams very close together and some have a long history before the DI move. In time just like both of our schools they will eventually get through the first few years of being a newbie with D2 athleticism and start making some progress.

USD and Omaha are replacing SUU and Centenary. USD and Omaha are better products than Centenary and Omaha just dropped FB and Wrestling so you know they aren't going to let the remaining programs fail. If anything they are going to work their rears off early to justify the move. Omaha has a lot to prove now and they are going to want to compare themselves to their local counter part in Creighton. We all know it will be a hard road for them to do that but by doing what they did they have to succeed quickly and it seems to me that they are wanting to compete for fans in that town. This move could eventually make that happen years down the road.

The Summit is obviously not the Ideal conference for everyone and it is too bad that the MVC isn't more willing to make a move like the BSC. But to think that the Summit will be the worst conference in DI is far from accurate. Who knows what will happen when the big schools figure out where they are going to go. Ten years ago I didn't think either ND school would be having these types of conversations involving DI and now look where we both are today.

I just don't get why the MVC can't just swallow up the MVFC teams, then have the remaining ones enter conferences close to them (ex. Horizon), and leave the startup teams (St. Cloud, Mankato if they choose) to the Great West. But I guess thats the NCAA for you. Some things are not supposed to make sense.

[johnson]

I just don't get why the MVC can't just swallow up the MVFC teams, then have the remaining ones enter conferences close to them (ex. Horizon), and leave the startup teams (St. Cloud, Mankato if they choose) to the Great West. But I guess thats the NCAA for you. Some things are not supposed to make sense.

With all the craziness going on with conferences changing shape some might eventually have no choice but to start doing things like that.

[dmksioux]

I have already stated that the SU's didn't leave to distance themselves from the NCC. Some fans have said that in the past and it was simply incorrect. The two schools didn't have that mindset when leaving. The majority of conversations that I have been a part of when some of those comments were made were in response to UND fans smacking the teams NDSU was playing while in transition. The majority of comments I have seen recently about "moving on" are more from the Lakes type than from any level headed fan.

ORU has dominated the Summit in the past and now things aren't going in the direction they wanted it to. They have complained about having to play in the upper midwest for a few years now and have been really upset that the conference tournaments are being relocated up north. Their coaches and players have made comments about having to play a bunch of upper midwest teams full of white kids who play in cracker jack box stadiums. Their attendance for BB games is falling and I would be willing to bet that recruiting is getting a little more difficult now with the league migrating north away from their area. The SU's have won a few games already in the Summit tourney and have won the whole thing a couple of times already while being relatively young in DI and it is only a matter of time before they get established enough to take the place of what ORU has already done. Both SU's have more support than ORU and also have a much more rabbid fanbase. The same could be said of some of the new schools coming into the league as well. I have stated that losing ORU hurts and it isn't ideal to lose them just yet but I have seen stats that have shown that the league will still be rank about the same as it has without ORU as a member. It isn't as if ORU is a huge national power. They are simply a recognizable name for an average fan who knows a little bit about college athletics. The league will now have a group of teams very close together and some have a long history before the DI move. In time just like both of our schools they will eventually get through the first few years of being a newbie with D2 athleticism and start making some progress.

USD and Omaha are replacing SUU and Centenary. USD and Omaha are better products than Centenary and Omaha just dropped FB and Wrestling so you know they aren't going to let the remaining programs fail. If anything they are going to work their rears off early to justify the move. Omaha has a lot to prove now and they are going to want to compare themselves to their local counter part in Creighton. We all know it will be a hard road for them to do that but by doing what they did they have to succeed quickly and it seems to me that they are wanting to compete for fans in that town. This move could eventually make that happen years down the road.

The Summit is obviously not the Ideal conference for everyone and it is too bad that the MVC isn't more willing to make a move like the BSC. But to think that the Summit will be the worst conference in DI is far from accurate. Who knows what will happen when the big schools figure out where they are going to go. Ten years ago I didn't think either ND school would be having these types of conversations involving DI and now look where we both are today.

My guess is that Omaha puts alot of their resources into their hockey program. They don't have to compete with Creighton and UN-L as they do in basketball. Focus on being a hockey school and have that be their bread and butter.

[Cratter]

I just don't get why the MVC can't just swallow up the MVFC teams.

Why would the MVC wanna do that? All their members are happy.

[Cratter]

Is it possible that the two schools might "need" each other? Let's be honest here, competition and rivalry are a good thing. Both UND and NDSU have a good tradition in athletics and support from alums. It would be nice to have that natural travel partner and I for one miss the rivalry. Dammit I don't even hate UND football like I used to anymore....I'm in favor of the Bison going to the Big Sky but realize it's probably unlikely.

Fans on both sides don't wanna admit it, but your right. All 4 Dakota schools "need" each other. They need to be the core members of a conference - an all sports conference. Then they get to choose the schools "they" want. Just need to take over a conference: Big Sky. Could have six flagship schools in the dakotas and montana. NDSU can be the first to move. Then when Sac St and Cal Davis leave for FBS ball the SD schools can join.

[JohnboyND7]

Northern Colorado has actually given the Big Sky major dividends: Altitude Network broadcasts and some games on Fox regional. The inclusion of Northern Colorado brought the Big Sky into the 21st Century as far as media interests. NDSU is still stuck in the 20th Century as far as media.

Northern Colorado is also the school that allowed UND to be part of the Big Sky: as Northern Colorado is the school that bridges into the plains region.

If Big Sky Presidents had to do it all over, there is no question that they would have brought in Northern Colorado again.

They'd take NDSU. NDSU has been successful in all of their sports since the move....volleyball, softball, soccer, football (Big Sky priority), basketball.

UNC's football program completely fell apart. They were a really good team and seriously, wow, they are awful year-in and year-out. Ask Montana and Montana St. who they'd rather play against. If it comes down to two teams who are both good and one brings in some more tv exposure, obviously you take the one with exposure. But when one is awful and brings some exposure and one brings good athletics, you take the athletics. At the time, the Big Sky made a good decision, in retrospect, no, they really didn't.

[star2city]

Fans on both sides don't wanna admit it, but your right. All 4 Dakota schools "need" each other. They need to be the core members of a conference - an all sports conference. Then they get to choose the schools "they" want. Just need to take over a conference: Big Sky. Could have six flagship schools in the dakotas and montana. NDSU can be the first to move. Then when Sac St and Cal Davis leave for FBS ball the SD schools can join.

http://forum.siouxsp..._hl__conference

Cratter. I normally respect what you write, but not this time.

UND hockey didn't need NDSU, SDSU, or USD hockey to get where it got. The vision of UND aviation didn't come from those schools. When UND really shines, it is when UND differentiates itself from those institutions.

DI is supposed to be about reaching beyond the Tri-state region. The Big Sky does that. The Summit doesn't offer any meaningful media beyond the two Dakota states.

I'm all for UND playing the other schools out-of-conference, but, in the long run, UND is far better off in a different conference than those three.

Alumni outside the tri-state region are hugely in favor of the Big Sky. Fans within the region are more influenced by Fargo and Sioux Falls media, so they are not as overwhelmingly enthusiastic.

[star2city]

They'd take NDSU. NDSU has been successful in all of their sports since the move....volleyball, softball, soccer, football (Big Sky priority), basketball.

UNC's football program completely fell apart. They were a really good team and seriously, wow, they are awful year-in and year-out. Ask Montana and Montana St. who they'd rather play against. If it comes down to two teams who are both good and one brings in some more tv exposure, obviously you take the one with exposure. But when one is awful and brings some exposure and one brings good athletics, you take the athletics. At the time, the Big Sky made a good decision, in retrospect, no, they really didn't.

UNC's been to the Big Dance more recently than NDSU - last spring actually - so I quess they really are awful year-in and year-out.

The BIg Sky always had an intention of gaining a foothold (albeit small) Denver media - especially cable - before adding a Dakota school. If NDSU and SDSU had waited until UNC finished its transition, the Big Sky would have been much more interested in those two after UNC had become an NCAA eligible member.

[star2city]

San Jose State football in mega-conference?

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_19185660

The Big West is sitting at 10 schools, but would like to add two more, San Jose St and UC-San Diego, to add schools in the two major California metro areas that it currently doesn't have a school in.

San Jose St wants the Big West (and would hope to park its football team elsewhere) or the MWC, not the WAC. If San Jose St gets in the MWC, then the Big West would become serious about adding Sac State and UC-San Diego, and Sac State would ask the Big Sky to be an affiliate in football (the same deal that the Big Sky gave UC Davis and Cal Poly.)

So there's a possibility that the BIg Sky will be down to 10 team next year in all-sports (but 13 in football).

[darell1976]

San Jose State football in mega-conference?

http://www.mercuryne...ews/ci_19185660

The Big West is sitting at 10 schools, but would like to add two more, San Jose St and UC-San Diego, to add schools in the two major California metro areas that it currently doesn't have a school in.

San Jose St wants the Big West (and would hope to park its football team elsewhere) or the MWC, not the WAC. If San Jose St gets in the MWC, then the Big West would become serious about adding Sac State and UC-San Diego, and Sac State would ask the Big Sky to be an affiliate in football (the same deal that the Big Sky gave UC Davis and Cal Poly.)

So there's a possibility that the BIg Sky will be down to 10 team next year in all-sports (but 13 in football).

Add the Dakota 3 and 1 more(Utah Valley?) you can have 2- 7 team divisions.