Conference Realignments - Take 2

[SiouxVolley]

22 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

UND just cut 3.1 Million dollars from their athletic budget.  What makes you think they can afford FBS?!!

It was well over what was needed and the reduced travel costs haven't even kicked in yet.  UND would need some major donations for facility improvements anyway, but think it will come.  The main point is that the XDSU fans just might have been forced to give up the delusion that the MVC was lusting after their basketball prowess.  Their interested in a new DI program Omaha but not multI dance XDSU programs - for real?   Football is all they got to focus on and invest in now, and that means FBS will be on the plate.

[jdub27]

33 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Football is all they got to focus on and invest in now, and that means FBS will be on the plate.

If that was the case, you'd think they'd be looking for ways add women's scholarships instead of cut them....

[SiouxVolley]

4 hours ago, jdub27 said:

If that was the case, you'd think they'd be looking for ways add women's scholarships instead of cut them....

In retrospect, the cutting of women's swimming was surprising if FBS is in the plans.  But there are actually other women's sports that can be cheaper and don't require expensive facility upgrades.  Idaho cut back to FCS and is now losing more money and had to ask the state for more.  But women's swimming has stayed intact when it could have been cut now.

If an FBS upgrade is announced, a school just has to have a plan for adding women's schollies.  It doesn't have to be immediate. Getting to 16 sports is the immediate part.

[southpaw]

15 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

How long will it be to get the bison trolls saying that league should be FBS?  They were steadfast against a UND WAC but would be in favor of this being FBS.  As Liberty has shown, the NCAA can give schools and conferences waivers to be FBS now.  The WAC was the only vehicle available to go without a waiver.

You're not naive enough to think there is even a similar comparison between this new conference going FBS vs a pretty random set of schools going FBS with the WAC. 

 

[Bison06]

On 4/21/2017 at 7:57 AM, zonadub said:

Why is the MVC more appealing to NDSU for you?

It's not at this point. 10 years ago, I would have been all for it, but not now. The only appeal for me at this point is UNI.

[SiouxVolley]

17 hours ago, southpaw said:

You're not naive enough to think there is even a similar comparison between this new conference going FBS vs a pretty random set of schools going FBS with the WAC. 

It's so obvious the your eyes glazed over whenever I had mentioned FBS as most of the teams are the same.  Same dumb a** posts by you.  Your incapable of reading and understanding, because you seem to be so incensed at even the concept.  The XDSU's have learned that they are just the fat girls tagging along to the MVC bar to make the other MVC gals look like models.  And here they thought there were wonderful and flattering comments, but no one wants them.  They finally now realize the whole MVC setup doesn't lead to a meaningful promotion and they are just being used.

You don't give any options if the Slummit deteriorates, which can happen if Omaha and the IP-soups leave.

It may be the only thing a Dakota 4 have to offer a multi bid conference is a conviction and seriousness to start FBS.  You  can scoff at that all you want, but we could end us as independents without a very serious run at FBS.  But UND has even more facility issues than the other three, as we don't have them yet.  Idaho wants an FBS league that is affordable and regional.  The same might be true of the Montanas and EWU, as they can't afford to compete in the MWC but a lower league might be up their alley.  But you'll deny it til kingdom come.

[SiouxVolley]

12 hours ago, Bison06 said:

It's not at this point. 10 years ago, I would have been all for it, but not now. The only appeal for me at this point is UNI.

It seems that is finally sinking in in Fargo.  NDSU will never be in the MVC.  You have to look west now or move up Northern Sun or MIAA schools.

[zonadub]

For those of you in the know...

who initiates campus visits?

in other words, did Omaha apply to the MVC or is the MVC looking at Omaha unsolicited to return to Omaha after losing Creighton? Another example would be Sioux Volley has said the MVC was interested in Belmont the last time around, but they are not scheduled for a campus visit (at least there is not one being reported). Is the MVC not visiting Belmont because they are not interested in being turned down or are they not invited to Belmont?

iirc, UND had applied to the Summit (and abruptly cancelled a campus visit by Douple) before they were accepted in the Big Sky, but there was really no press about the Big Sky making a campus visit to UND before the Sioux were accepted into the BSC. Was Faison working behind the scenes soliciting the Big Sky or was Fullerton working behind the scenes to rescue UND from football irrelevance?

[SiouxVolley]

20 minutes ago, zonadub said:

For those of you in the know...

who initiates campus visits?

in other words, did Omaha apply to the MVC or is the MVC looking at Omaha unsolicited to return to Omaha after losing Creighton? Another example would be Sioux Volley has said the MVC was interested in Belmont the last time around, but they are not scheduled for a campus visit (at least there is not one being reported). Is the MVC not visiting Belmont because they are not interested in being turned down or are they not invited to Belmont?

iirc, UND had applied to the Summit (and abruptly cancelled a campus visit by Douple) before they were accepted in the Big Sky, but there was really no press about the Big Sky making a campus visit to UND before the Sioux were accepted into the BSC. Was Faison working behind the scenes soliciting the Big Sky or was Fullerton working behind the scenes to rescue UND from football irrelevance?

The MVC schedules site visits when there is mutual interest.  Omaha is probably a Tier 2 candidate though.  Valpo and Murray being Tier 1.

My theory was the Montanas gave an ultimatum to the BSC that they wanted the Dakotas or they would leave.  The other BSC teams voted so the Montanas would stay.

[southpaw]

9 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Your incapable of reading and understanding, because you seem to be so incensed at even the concept.

And yet you didn't even read my comment.  I was pointing out that there is a big difference in this "Big North" going FBS and your complete lie of a WAC conference that you keep predicting will happen.  As usual, you're moving some goalposts.  It was a nice month when you went into your shell after UND joined the Summit and you had to hide from people showing how wrong you were.

However, you aren't dumb enough (although history has probably proven otherwise) to believe that UND and NDSU fans would have similar thoughts towards your old WAC conference and the Big North as the WAC.  I don't think anybody wanted to be in a WAC that consisted of NMSU, UTRGV and other random schools.  I don't think anyone would turn down the chance to be part of a WAC that was the 4 Dakotas, the Montanas and Idaho/EWU.

[southpaw]

10 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

It's so obvious the your eyes glazed over whenever I had mentioned FBS as most of the teams are the same.

Most of the teams in the MVC are the same as they were 10 years ago.  But which conference is better? 2007 MVC or 2017 MVC?  Is the MVC still appealing to the Dakotas?  I don't think so.

[The Sicatoka]

The Dakota 4 and the Montana group are a random group of schools just like the rogue's gallery that is today's WAC. In the eyes of the NCAA that's reality. Never forget that. 

SV's point in the past was that if the Dakotas and Montana group wanted to go FBS, ever, they needed the vessel called the WAC. You had to have a bona fide invite from an FBS granting conference to go FBS. The WAC had retroactive power to invite teams to FBS as that conference (forget who's in it today) was, and retains power as, an FBS conference at one time. 

Since then, the world has changed: Liberty got permission from the NCAA to go FBS without a bona fide invitation from an existing FBS conference. 

Thus, the WAC is no longer needed as the vessel, the portal, to FBS. The NCAA has set precedence. They waived Liberty through to FBS without that FBS conference invitation. 

Now the dream of a "Great North" conference no longer needs to consider how to wrest control of the WAC (and it's magic FBS granting power) away from that group of rogues. Liberty saw to that. 

Now, in this post Liberty decision world, this consortium of the Dakota 4 and the Montana group can form up and then make the same request Liberty did at the time of their choosing. 

[The Sicatoka]

The speculation I'm seeing out in other forums is that the MVC will go to 12 (add 3) and that the preference order right now is: Murray State, Valpo, UW-Milw, Omaha. 

There's a claim in one place that the UNO visit did not go well and UW-Milw became preferred. 

If the MVC pulls two from the Horizon (Valpo, Milw) I still see the Horizon back filling from within their footprint and from the Summit (IUPUI, IPFW). 

[SiouxVolley]

19 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

The Dakota 4 and the Montana group are a random group of schools just like the rogue's gallery that is today's WAC. In the eyes of the NCAA that's reality. Never forget that. 

SV's point in the past was that if the Dakotas and Montana group wanted to go FBS, ever, they needed the vessel called the WAC. You had to have a bona fide invite from an FBS granting conference to go FBS. The WAC had retroactive power to invite teams to FBS as that conference (forget who's in it today) was, and retains power as, an FBS conference at one time. 

Since then, the world has changed: Liberty got permission from the NCAA to go FBS without a bona fide invitation from an existing FBS conference. 

Thus, the WAC is no longer needed as the vessel, the portal, to FBS. The NCAA has set precedence. They waived Liberty through to FBS without that FBS conference invitation. 

Now the dream of a "Great North" conference no longer needs to consider how to wrest control of the WAC (and it's magic FBS granting power) away from that group of rogues. Liberty saw to that. 

Now, in this post Liberty decision world, this consortium of the Dakota 4 and the Montana group can form up and then make the same request Liberty did at the time of their choosing. 

Precisely.

Wouldn't count out Wichita St fb, as they want to be full AAC members eventually.  Also, if NMSU doesn't have an  FBS invite, they might need to join.

Left out the XDSU's as they thought they were MVC material and it be hilarious if we went FBS first.

[SiouxVolley]

3 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

The speculation I'm seeing out in other forums is that the MVC will go to 12 (add 3) and that the preference order right now is: Murray State, Valpo, UW-Milw, Omaha. 

There's a claim in one place that the UNO visit did not go well and UW-Milw became preferred. 

If the MVC pulls two from the Horizon (Valpo, Milw) I still see the Horizon back filling from within their footprint and from the Summit (IUPUI, IPFW). 

Think Robert Morris will get a look too, but at least one of the IP's will be gone.

[The Sicatoka]

10 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Think Robert Morris will get a look too, but at least one of the IP's will be gone.

Wright State has significant budget issues right now. Some quarters are claiming one option is elimination of intercollegiate athletics. 

Should that happen, and Valpo and Milw, the Horizon would need to go shopping for three, and the logicals again are IUPUI, IPFW, and Robert Morris. However, historically, Bobby Mo has looked east for conference. 

[jacksfan29]

10 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Precisely.

Wouldn't count out Wichita St fb, as they want to be full AAC members eventually.  Also, if NMSU doesn't have an  FBS invite, they might need to join.

Left out the XDSU's as they thought they were MVC material and it be hilarious if we went FBS first.

This is where you get yourself in trouble. You can't really believe your WAC fantasy is the same as a conference with the four Dakota, two Montana, Idaho as anchors is the same as us moving to the WAC and having to accept the dregs in that conference for all our Olympic Sports? 

As for the XDSU's being MVC material. You do see who they are going after? The MVC are going for mediocrity and schools that do not threaten the status quo. Several writers, Bradley's especially has been adamant about not adding the XDSU's out of the fear that the conference would become FB centric. The privates hate FB with a passion. If they had their choice the public schools would drop the sport or leave the league.

In addition, at least in the case of SDSU I'm pretty sure our AD has some good insight into the MVC today v the past. Sell came from UNI, had a chance to go back to UNI and apply for their open AD job when Troy Dannen left. He chose to stay at SDSU. If the Valley our king, why do you think that is?

Of the schools being mentioned Valpo is the only school which still has a good BB program, though minus a Drew at the helm we will see how long they stay successful. All four schools, including Valpo have major issues whether it be facilities (Valpo/Murray), a screwed up athletic department (UWM) or major financial issues with no track record of success (Omaha). Do you wonder why they are only looking at those schools? The list gets approved by the school President's and each school needs 7 votes of the 9. WSU left the Valley because the conference schools had accepted, and even promoted mediocrity. CU had been looking to bolt long before the Big East came calling. What is left in the MVC, outside of maybe UNI and ISUr is not great. And those two schools have financial pressures even UND do not have.

UND will not go FBS before either XDSU. Neither XDSU will go FBS before UND. If FBS ever occurs it will be a very different FBS then you see today. The ESPN mess is going to push the P5 to act soon to consolidate revenues meaning the G5, other then maybe the AAC and MWC (who the P5 need) are in serious trouble. Relax, the Summit is not dying. The MVFC is fine as is the BSC, for now. UND are no where close to having the facilities to move up. Neither is USD. Both have time to get ready. Things will change eventually, the XDSU's are ready, UND and USD will be ready by the time they need to be. Be patient.

[jacksfan29]

17 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Wright State has significant budget issues right now. Some quarters are claiming one option is elimination of intercollegiate athletics. 

Should that happen, and Valpo and Milw, the Horizon would need to go shopping for three, and the logicals again are IUPUI, IPFW, and Robert Morris. However, historically, Bobby Mo has looked east for conference. 

Wright State are not dropping athletics. Just because a fan boy states it online doesn't mean it is true. And I know what "quarters" you are talking about. The same person posted the rumor three years ago. There is an agenda there, who knows what it is but their is an agenda. Wright State are actually strengthening their athletic department and increasing spending. A school looking to drop athletics doesn't do that. 

And it is likely neither IUPUI or IPFW ever goes to the Horizon. They have been passed over so many times they don't even try any more. I would say it is more likely for UWM and Green Bay to end up in the Summit then both Indiana schools are in the Horizon. You and SV really have to stop.

[FargoBison]

The WAC idea had way too many moving pieces. 

The Summit/Big North idea is somewhat simpler but still requires a lot of things happening. 

[FargoBison]

I think Milwaukee will be the 12th, I don't know what school in the MVC would even push for Omaha. UNI is the closest public school and I think they would prefer Milwaukee since Wisconsin is a big recruiting area for them. 

If the Horizon loses Valpo and Milwaukee could the Summit make a run at GB? 

[The Sicatoka]

5 minutes ago, FargoBison said:

If the Horizon loses Valpo and Milwaukee could the Summit make a run at GB? 

Wouldn't that trigger a Horizon run at IUPUI and IPFW? 

[FargoBison]

1 minute ago, The Sicatoka said:

Wouldn't that trigger a Horizon run at IUPUI and IPFW? 

It might but losing Milwaukee and Valpo are two pretty big blows for that league. Leaving GB kind of isolated. 

[The Sicatoka]

3 minutes ago, FargoBison said:

It might but losing Milwaukee and Valpo are two pretty big blows for that league. Leaving GB kind of isolated. 

Losing Valpo and UWMilw takes them to eight; lose UWGB makes seven and a conference can't live long at seven. 

[homer]

2 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

The Dakota 4 and the Montana group are a random group of schools just like the rogue's gallery that is today's WAC. In the eyes of the NCAA that's reality. Never forget that. 

SV's point in the past was that if the Dakotas and Montana group wanted to go FBS, ever, they needed the vessel called the WAC. You had to have a bona fide invite from an FBS granting conference to go FBS. The WAC had retroactive power to invite teams to FBS as that conference (forget who's in it today) was, and retains power as, an FBS conference at one time. 

Since then, the world has changed: Liberty got permission from the NCAA to go FBS without a bona fide invitation from an existing FBS conference. 

Thus, the WAC is no longer needed as the vessel, the portal, to FBS. The NCAA has set precedence. They waived Liberty through to FBS without that FBS conference invitation. 

Now the dream of a "Great North" conference no longer needs to consider how to wrest control of the WAC (and it's magic FBS granting power) away from that group of rogues. Liberty saw to that. 

Now, in this post Liberty decision world, this consortium of the Dakota 4 and the Montana group can form up and then make the same request Liberty did at the time of their choosing. 

Do you need an FBS conference invite or is it the preferred and costly way to do it?

can you not move up and be an independent like Liberty? 

[The Sicatoka]

Being a DI indy is not preferred. It's expensive. You're racing to make a complete schedule every year. That's why many are skeptical that NMSU will survive as an FBS indy. (Idaho chose to drop back to FCS rather than try to be an FBS indy.) 

Liberty has a shot because they're in a part of the country where there are more teams close by and available to play (and they have some wealthy folks bankrolling their gambit).