UND's New Hockey Conference

[The Sicatoka]

What are you, a second grader?

First grade is tough and he wasn't "promoted" this year so take it easy on him.

[darell1976]

So far no talk on BVille about NDSU starting hockey although 1 person did talk about Moorhead joing the WCHA (what's left of it). Funny how they think this is selfish of UND and this whole thing is UND's fault. HMMM do they feel that way about MInnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan St, and Ohio State since they are the first teams to leave the WCHA for their own conference? Of course their hatred for UND is comical because they have "moved on".

[tnt]

Which idiom should we use...

...Pot calling the kettle black?

...People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones?

...What's good for the goose is good for the gander?

I laugh at the Gophers holier than thou attitude, if the roles were reversed they would be looking at the very same options.

What also makes me laugh is their delusion that UND needs them on the schedule every year...they don't. Teams would be falling over themselves trying to get UND on their schedule if Minnesota gave up their series. Honestly with their level of play the last 3 or 4 years you could make the argument that we could find better OOC opponents from the East than Minnesota...although I for one would really miss kicking their ass in the Ralph on a regular basis.

Exactly. UND had one of it's biggest draws ever last year against Alaska Anchorage. How did Minnesota draw against Alaska last year -- and in the playoffs no less.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

At least our fans have all our teeth.

Dude, have you ever been to some of the suburbs? I was at the Players Club in Forest Lake once, and thought the Fox Racing hat wearing hillbillies were going to kick my ass for being an out of towner! Just quit with the Twin Cities Sophisticated vs Grand Forks Hick argument. It simply doesn't work.

[The Sicatoka]

If this new group is looking to run like a business and actually cut some decent media deals, you have to wonder how some of the eastern powers feel about it. Will BC and BU be pleased to hear that this new conference is negotiating for national (continental?) television deals? How will they respond? Yes, they are trying to lure Notre Dame their direction, but what if they don't get them? How will they respond then?

[Riverman]

I find it amusing to read Goofy fans proposing what is essentially a boycott of the new conference. Weren't these the same buffoons who, after the BTHC was announced, said the Goofs should only schedule MN OOC games? The way they keep talking out of both sides of their mouths', it's a wonder they can keep their teeth from falling out!

Wasn't the reason UM and Wisc leaving was to distance themselves from the WCHA's MSUM,SCSU,BSU,UMD's?

[tnt]

So far no talk on BVille about NDSU starting hockey although 1 person did talk about Moorhead joing the WCHA (what's left of it). Funny how they think this is selfish of UND and this whole thing is UND's fault. HMMM do they feel that way about MInnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan St, and Ohio State since they are the first teams to leave the WCHA for their own conference? Of course their hatred for UND is comical because they have "moved on".

Are NDSU fans saying it is selfish on UND's part? If so, they would be indicting themselves for moving out of the NCC.

[The Sicatoka]

Wasn't the reason UM and Wisc leaving was to distance themselves from the WCHA's MSUM,SCSU,BSU,UMD's?

Are NDSU fans saying it is selfish on UND's part? If so, they would be indicting themselves for moving out of the NCC.

There you guys go citing the hypcricy of those other folks. Cut that out.

[ScottM]

So far no talk on BVille about NDSU starting hockey

Well, of course not. Do you know how difficult it is to skate with cow shiat on your skates? Not to mention it's tough to use a hockey stick when your banjo keeps gettin' in the way, and you have a plug of chew stuck in your mouth guard. And then there's the men...

[darell1976]

Well, of course not. Do you know how difficult it is to skate with cow shiat on your skates? Not to mention it's tough to use a hockey stick when your banjo keeps gettin' in the way, and you have a plug of chew stuck in your mouth guard. And then there's the men...

:lol: :lol:

[Doc Holliday]

Wasn't the reason UM and Wisc leaving was to distance themselves from the WCHA's MSUM,SCSU,BSU,UMD's?

Um....no. No, it wasn't. They left because of Big Ten conference rules.

Deep down, Barry Alvarez may have been fine with not being in bed with Minnesota state schools coming to Kohl Center instead of the Ohio State's & Michigan's, but it doesn't matter much in the overall scheme of things. Big Ten rules won out.

[Riverman]

If this new group is looking to run like a business and actually cut some decent media deals, you have to wonder how some of the eastern powers feel about it. Will BC and BU be pleased to hear that this new conference is negotiating for national (continental?) television deals? How will they respond? Yes, they are trying to lure Notre Dame their direction, but what if they don't get them? How will they respond then?

Doesn't Notre Dame have a HUGE contract with NBC? Isn't Versus owned by NBC? IMHO, the new league UND, UNO and DU are trying to put together sure would be happy with what Notre Dame could bring to the table in marketing.

Lost in all this is UMD,UNO coached by former UND coaches are signed up for the new league.

[The Sicatoka]

Um....no. No, it wasn't. They left because of Big Ten conference rules.

So we blame the Big Ten (and its Network), Jim Delaney, and ultimately that evil donor that gave Penn State hockey start-up money. I'm good with all that.

[Doc Holliday]

So we blame the Big Ten (and its Network), Jim Delaney, and ultimately that evil donor that gave Penn State hockey start-up money. I'm good with all that.

It, at least, would be more accurate than laying blame at the hands of purely Minnesoat & Wisconsin.

[darell1976]

Doesn't Notre Dame have a HUGE contract with NBC? Isn't Versus owned by NBC? IMHO, the new league UND, UNO and DU are trying to put together sure would be happy with what Notre Dame could bring to the table in marketing.

Lost in all this is UMD,UNO coached by former UND coaches are signed up for the new league.

Any chance NBC could show Sioux hockey. Wouldn't that be something.

[star2city]

The remnants of the WCHA and CCHA are set up fairly well to create their own conference and align it with east and west divisions for ease of scheduling and travel. Add in UAH to boot. And that group won't be as intimidating to a start-up as say the current WCHA but will still have some credibility for calibre of hockey.

Assuming the new conference is UND, DU, CC, UNO, UMD, MoOH, NDU, and WMU what is left is:

HRC (Hockey Remnants Conference):

West - SCSU, MSU-M, BSU, UAA, UAF, (new team here, say MSU-Moorhead)

East - BGSU, FSU, NMU, MTU, LSSU, UAH

This group is set perfectly to try to get schools to add hockey and split into two separate conferences later. Lindenwood in the west. Who knows, maybe another MAC school in the east.

With the new hockey order, it creates all types of opportunities for additional schools to add hockey. Look at what the "stability" of hockey caused in the past ten years:

Wayne State - begged and pleaded with the CCHA to admit then: denied, Wayne State dropped hockey

Findlay - wanted CCHA membership instead of CHA membership: denied, Findlay dropped hockey

Mercyhurst, Niagara, Robert Morris - wanted full scholarship hockey ever since CHA dispanded: CCHA denied membership so schools are forced to comply with the AHA scholarship limits

UAH - begged and pleaded with CCHA for membership: denied, but UAH carries on as an independent.

Lindenwood - moved to DII, but only moved women's hockey to varsity status because of conference issues on the men's side

Grand Valley State - has not pursued hockey, in part because the CCHA never showed interest

Davenport (Grand Rapids) - top ranked club team moving it's athletic program to DII, has interest in DI hockey

Liberty (Va) - has on-campus rink and highly ranked club, without a conference opportunity has placed varsity hockey "on ice"

In the west:

Montana State-Billings - studied adding hockey in the past decade, but with no meaningful conference affiliation available chose not to pursue hockey (Billings has a nice rink downtown)

MSU-Moorhead - ditto, but with Scheels Arena complex

Minot State - thought to have moved to DII in large part just so it can start hockey (flood may have changed that status)

The CCHA and WCHA membership policies have limited hockey's growth in the past. That's about to change.

[darell1976]

With the new hockey order, it creates all types of opportunities for additional schools to add hockey. Look at what the "stability" of hockey caused in the past ten years:

Wayne State - begged and pleaded with the CCHA to admit then: denied, Wayne State dropped hockey

Findlay - wanted CCHA membership instead of CHA membership: denied, Findlay dropped hockey

Mercyhurst, Niagara, Robert Morris - wanted full scholarship hockey ever since CHA dispanded: CCHA denied membership so schools are forced to comply with the AHA scholarship limits

UAH - begged and pleaded with CCHA for membership: denied, but UAH carries on as an independent.

Lindenwood - moved to DII, but only moved women's hockey to varsity status because of conference issues on the men's side

Grand Valley State - has not pursued hockey, in part because the CCHA never showed interest

Davenport (Grand Rapids) - top ranked club team moving it's athletic program to DII, has interest in DI hockey

Liberty (Va) - has on-campus rink and highly ranked club, without a conference opportunity has placed varsity hockey "on ice"

In the west:

Montana State-Billings - studied adding hockey in the past decade, but no meaningful conference affiliation available so chose not to pursue hockey (Billings has a nice rink downtown)

MSU-Moorhead - ditto, but with Scheels Arena complex

Minot State - thought to have moved to DII in large part just so it can start hockey (flood may have changed that status)

The CCHA and WCHA membership policies have limited hockey's growth in the past. That's about to change.

The teams in bold IMO has the best chance of joining D-I hockey within the next 10 years.

[star2city]

The teams in bold IMO has the best chance of joining D-I hockey within the next 10 years.

The hockey cartel system is dead, at least in the west. In a cartel, the dead weight schools benefit the most, while the outsiders can't join the party.

Findlay has no chance: they took out their ice making equipment and remodeled the rink, making it non-usable for hockey.

Wayne State has very little chance: still don't have a rink on campus and Michigan has major financial issues.

The Super League, especially if it has Notre Dame as a member, might actually have a chance of getting higher profile non-Big 10 schools to start hockey: like DePaul, Iowa State, Utah, or even Texas. Not especially likely, but with the old WCHA, name schools like would never have considered it.

What is concerning about Notre Dame's wait is that the Irish are probably lobbying another Big East school like Syracuse or UConn to join them in Hockey East.

[Sioux-cia]

It, at least, would be more accurate than laying blame at the hands of purely Minnesoat & Wisconsin.

Why is that any different than laying blame for the supposed demise of smaller hockey programs on the new conference and UND? The Big Ten isn't so arrogant to think that all other programs/conferences would remain stagnant while they grow in order to fill their coffers, is it?

[Riverman]

IMHO, The new league just created a new problem for the Big 10(6) If the new league is united this could force home and away games with B10(6) schools. And with this stipulation the Big 10(6) enter into contract with a new league where they(new league) probably will have their own media rights. Nice job of the new league to snag Duluth for the Minnesota market. Remember the quote from Faison"At the end of the day ,we have to do whats's in the best interest of UND hockey and that's what were going to do. It's an emotional decision. It's a BUISNESS decison". Funny how George at DU said the same thing about a week later... Go right ahead B10 (6) play all the left over teams of the WCHA and CCHA. It's probaby what the new league has plans of doing. So fear not teams left behind in a power conference CCHA/WCHA merger the new league just made you important.

[Doc Holliday]

Why is that any different than laying blame for the supposed demise of smaller hockey programs on the new conference and UND? The Big Ten isn't so arrogant to think that all other programs/conferences would remain stagnant while they grow in order to fill their coffers, is it?

Personally, I'm fine with North Dakota doing what they feel is in their best interests. They're responsible for themselves, not holding other programs a float.

My problem with the new league is I question if it will make more money than the WCHA minus MN & WI would....travel expenses are going to be greater, a TV deal won't net as much as most in the new conference think, and there's also the question about the postseason tournament. With the new conference, the only real economically viable solution that I see is holding it in Grand Forks every year, something I'm sure the other league foes would be "thrilled" with.

Obviously those in charge at NoDak & DU have thought about the economics much more than I or any Sioux fan has, but I have trouble seeing economics thrive any more than the WCHA minus MN & WI would.

[Brucesky02]

I think it is incredibly important that the new conference stays at 8 teams or below. That will allow us to schedule more out of conference games with teams we care about (MN, UW, BC, Boston, etc.) Maybe that can help clean up some of the inflated ratings and opinions of east vs. west teams that have happened over the past few years. Plus, fewer teams means a higher chance at an auto-bid, less sharing of revenues and a higher chance of making the conference tournament.

ALSO: What is the official stance of the new conference on the Sioux nickname?

SIDEBAR: Will Derek Shepherd be joining the officiating staff? Or will the "we want Shepherd" chant be lost in history?

[dakota fairways]

I think it is incredibly important that the new conference stays at 8 teams or below. That will allow us to schedule more out of conference games with teams we care about (MN, UW, BC, Boston, etc.) Maybe that can help clean up some of the inflated ratings and opinions of east vs. west teams that have happened over the past few years. Plus, fewer teams means a higher chance at an auto-bid, less sharing of revenues and a higher chance of making the conference tournament.

was thinking the same thing... The WCHA with 12 teams was too big. no full round robin home-and-homes. (kinda like the new Big Sky might be until the 14th team joins)

[Riverman]

Personally, I'm fine with North Dakota doing what they feel is in their best interests. They're responsible for themselves, not holding other programs a float.

My problem with the new league is I question if it will make more money than the WCHA minus MN & WI would....travel expenses are going to be greater, a TV deal won't net as much as most in the new conference think, and there's also the question about the postseason tournament. With the new conference, the only real economically viable solution that I see is holding it in Grand Forks every year, something I'm sure the other league foes would be "thrilled" with.

Obviously those in charge at NoDak & DU have thought about the economics much more than I or any Sioux fan has, but I have trouble seeing economics thrive any more than the WCHA minus MN & WI would.

Hmm since Duluth is in the new league I see no reason that the post season tournament can't be held at a true neutral site. Say the Excel or Target Center? Minnesota(Gophers) won't be using both will they?Pssst check out how many Sioux fans were at the X this year...Looks like the UNO bunch have no problems traveling either when they played at the Gophers rink this year.

[Sioux-cia]

Personally, I'm fine with North Dakota doing what they feel is in their best interests. They're responsible for themselves, not holding other programs a float.

My problem with the new league is I question if it will make more money than the WCHA minus MN & WI would....travel expenses are going to be greater, a TV deal won't net as much as most in the new conference think, and there's also the question about the postseason tournament. With the new conference, the only real economically viable solution that I see is holding it in Grand Forks every year, something I'm sure the other league foes would be "thrilled" with.

Obviously those in charge at NoDak & DU have thought about the economics much more than I or any Sioux fan has, but I have trouble seeing economics thrive any more than the WCHA minus MN & WI would.

Traveling to Ohio, and, possibly, Western Michigan or Indiana is likely to cost about the same or only a bit more than traveling to Anchorage, Houghton, Mankato and Madision. I also see more revenue coming from those games than Anchorage and Houghton. The big losers here will be the communities who will no longer have the travelingest fans in college hockey spending big bucks there. MN and WI/UND series were big money makers for all our programs but don't forget, they broke up with us. Difference here, we're not wallowing in 'oh poor me, now what am I going to do' shock, we have a new 'relationship'.