Kelley has deceived the media and you

[Herd]

The paranoya has a strong grip star. Kelley is trying to save you from yourself, but you would prefer an honorable death, hey i get it. We all have to live with our choices.

[The Sicatoka]

Al Carlson put it "the well has been poisoned".

I'll say the bell has been rung.

You can't unring a bell.

Al Carlson's bill was a renig on a legal agreement.

That's not how North Dakotans do business.

There's no honor in that.

The NCAA won't change.

UND will have to.

Accept it.

Hey Sicatoca, u should get a job with the NCAA since u are in the Business of telling others what to do.

Thank you anyway, I have no interest in accepting it. Just like I have no interest in accepting uneducated fatscists telling me and other fair minded rational people who happen to love the Sioux name and all that it symbolizes that we must give away what we love for no good reason.

All of my statements are situation appraisal, save for the very last two words. If that's "telling others what to do" ...

Much of life is accepting the wrongs that others believe are right because the others have the power. UND is stuck in one of those situations.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

This whole situation SUCKS. As a lifelong Sioux fan, I feared the day that we would be having these types of discussions.

I believe there are 2 separate issues:

1-The Fighting Sioux name and its effect on the athletic program

2-President Kelley, and whether or not he has been honest with us

Issue #1: it seems clear that the name is going to set the athletic department back significantly. There are too many loud "anti-nicknamers" out there who will keep making this an issue. In the past, it was about saying that the nickname was racist. Votes on the reservation and general opinion have shown that the nickname is liked by the majority of American Indians, and non-American Indians. Now, the people who want to get rid of the name have changed their tune, they say that the name will hurt our athletic programs, and certain loud "anti-nicknamers" (see U of MN, U of Iowa), have made this a reality. The number of "anti-nicknamers' are low, but unfortunately, many seem to be in high places, making important decisions.

Issue #2- President Kelley is your typical college president. Did he lie to us? I would put a good deal of money down that he did. I don't trust the guy at all, that is my personal opinion. You see, President Kelley is another "anti-nicknamer", just like the leaders at the U of MN and NCAA. If you terminate Kelley today, you will just get another liberal minded person to assume his role. Anyone who is familiar with the university environment knows what it takes to be a leader, it is much different than other fields where common sense is more prevalent.

The final outcome on this one is becoming pretty clear. The game is almost over, it is 5-3 with 30 seconds to go, we have our goalie pulled....

This sucks.

[ScottM]

The final outcome on this one is becoming pretty clear. The game is almost over, it is 5-3 with 30 seconds to go, we have our goalie pulled....

This sucks.

I agree. This whole, long process of fighting the NC$$ over the Sioux name/logo sort of reminds me of watching a good friend or relative die a lingering death and accepting that fact, only to have somebody pull out "Dr. Al's Miracle Snake-Oil Cure" and claim it can stop the inevitable, and grow hair. I'm not at all happy at losing the name/logo, but I figured that was going to happen when the decision was made to move to D1 and the settlement was trotted out.

[The Sicatoka]

The number of "anti-nicknamers' are low, but unfortunately, many seem to be in high places, making important decisions.

As I said ...

Much of life is accepting the wrongs that others believe are right because the others have the power.

The final outcome on this one is becoming pretty clear. The game is almost over, it is 5-3 with 30 seconds to go, we have our goalie pulled....

This situation reminds me more and more of a certain recent April day in The X versus Michigan.

[The Sicatoka]

I'm not at all happy at losing the name/logo, but I figured that was going to happen when the decision was made to move to D1 and the settlement was trotted out.

Yup. It was a pressure-point the NCAA could use for their agenda.

[star2city]

The paranoya has a strong grip star. Kelley is trying to save you from yourself, but you would prefer an honorable death, hey i get it. We all have to live with our choices.

Says the simpleton that can't process multiple-layered information and must always yield to conventional thought and peer pressure.

For people like you, I will distill the facts down:

FACT:

Fullerton stated that no Big Sky vote has been taken on the Sioux name. Fullerton further stated that any vote would be if Grand Forks can host any Big Sky tournament. Fullerton denied that UND's membership is in jeopardy.

Outright Lie by Kelley:

Kelley has stated UND's membership in the Big Sky is under threat, unless the nickname is changed. Kelley has stated that the Big Sky Presidents have voted, or at least so he heard, and the vote happened while he wasn't in the meeting.

NCAA statement was false:

The NCAA press release from Bernard Franklin's office stated that the Big Sky's policy was aligned with its own. Where in the world did the NCAA get that information? Could only have been Kelley or his administration. Bernard Franklin's office has caused embarrassment to the NCAA, because it listened to the wrong person.

Fullerton's letter:

The letter was about why Grand Forks wouldn't be able to host conference tournaments. Fullerton probably never intended that letter to be disbursed to the media, but only to the SBoHE and Legislature through Kelley.

The key people for the future are the local media, who consider themselves very sophisticated but couldn't solve a multi-level problem to save their life. The chance that Tom Dennis and Mike Jacobs actually authorize investigative journalism that could potentially cause Kelley his job is a joke. Both Dennis and Jacobs have defended Kelley as if he is some type of high priest or something. (In Jacobs' case, an academic bureaucrat is the pinnacle of spiritual success, so that priest characterization is accurate). Kelley is just a man with his own faults, like everyone else, and Kelley wants the name gone, dammit.

If anyone thinks that Kelley can lead UND into a post-Sioux era, that is delusional.

[Chewey]

I agree. This whole, long process of fighting the NC$$ over the Sioux name/logo sort of reminds me of watching a good friend or relative die a lingering death and accepting that fact, only to have somebody pull out "Dr. Al's Miracle Snake-Oil Cure" and claim it can stop the inevitable, and grow hair. I'm not at all happy at losing the name/logo, but I figured that was going to happen when the decision was made to move to D1 and the settlement was trotted out.

Yes, but by that tragedy a cure is found. If the nickname and logo become part of history, time to advocate for some changes to the NCAA -- Ma Bell sort of changes. And, time to advocate changes to higher education. You can bet that higher education is the very first place that should be drawn down in terms of funding. Give a couple of finance auditors and consultants a couple of months with UND and some other institutions and bring back their recommendations and implement them. While the letting go of the one administrator at UND was a black eye in terms of how it was handled, I commend Kelley and his staff for skimming off the curd. In addition, the SBoHE is a superfluous entity entirely. All of the ballyhoo about it being necessary to prevent preferential treatment of one school/area over another is way overstated.

[Hawkster]

Says the simpleton that can't process multiple-layered information and must always yield to conventional thought and peer pressure.

For people like you, I will distill the facts down:

FACT:

Fullerton stated that no Big Sky vote has been taken on the Sioux name. Fullerton further stated that any vote would be if Grand Forks can host any Big Sky tournament. Fullerton denied that UND's membership is in jeopardy.

Outright Lie by Kelley:

Kelley has stated UND's membership in the Big Sky is under threat, unless the nickname is changed. Kelley has stated that the Big Sky Presidents have voted, or at least so he heard, and the vote happened while he wasn't in the meeting.

NCAA statement was false:

The NCAA press release from Bernard Franklin's office stated that the Big Sky's policy was aligned with its own. Where in the world did the NCAA get that information? Could only have been Kelley or his administration. Bernard Franklin's office has caused embarrassment to the NCAA, because it listened to the wrong person.

Fullerton's letter:

The letter was about why Grand Forks wouldn't be able to host conference tournaments. Fullerton probably never intended that letter to be disbursed to the media, but only to the SBoHE and Legislature through Kelley.

The key people for the future are the local media, who consider themselves very sophisticated but couldn't solve a multi-level problem to save their life. The chance that Tom Dennis and Mike Jacobs actually authorize investigative journalism that could potentially cause Kelley his job is a joke. Both Dennis and Jacobs have defended Kelley as if he is some type of high priest or something. (In Jacobs' case, an academic bureaucrat is the pinnacle of spiritual success, so that priest characterization is accurate). Kelley is just a man with his own faults, like everyone else, and Kelley wants the name gone, dammit.

If anyone thinks that Kelley can lead UND into a post-Sioux era, that is delusional.

You keep trotting out these "Facts" without proof, but what we should be looking at is "Reality". If something isn't done and done IMMEDIATELY, we won't be in the BSC. REALITY trumps alleged Facts.

[The Sicatoka]

Kelley has stated UND's membership in the Big Sky is under threat, unless the nickname is changed. Kelley has stated that the Big Sky Presidents have voted, or at least so he heard, and the vote happened while he wasn't in the meeting.

The bolded part is the fact.

From whom comes the threat is possibly a question (BSC or NCAA?).

Anyone who reads this letter from the BSC and can't see that needs to re-read the letter.

[star2city]

The bolded part is the fact.

From whom comes the threat is possibly a question (BSC or NCAA?).

Anyone who reads this letter from the BSC and can't see that needs to re-read the letter.

Sic, to declare that membership is a threat based on that letter is arrogance on your part.

John Roberts and Ruth Ginsburg read the same documents, yet arrive at vastly different conclusions.

Fullerton is stating that UND will potentially be subject to the same Big Sky sanctions that the NCAA imparts: the inability to host playoff games.

To date, the Big Sky has not enacted any policy, which totally contradicts Kelley's statements to the press.

[GeauxSioux]

Sic, to declare that membership is a threat based on that letter is arrogance on your part.

John Roberts and Ruth Ginsburg read the same documents, yet arrive at vastly different conclusions.

Fullerton is stating that UND will potentially be subject to the same Big Sky sanctions that the NCAA imparts: the inability to host playoff games.

To date, the Big Sky has not enacted any policy, which totally contradicts Kelley's statements to the press.

"Could this lead to a time when league play and possibly league membership itself could be affected?"

Leads me to believe that there could be memberhip issues with UND in the Big Sky.

[PhillySioux]

"Could this lead to a time when league play and possibly league membership itself could be affected?"

Leads me to believe that there could be memberhip issues with UND in the Big Sky.

To assume otherwise would be irresponsible at best.

[UND1983]

"Could this lead to a time when league play and possibly league membership itself could be affected?"

Leads me to believe that there could be memberhip issues with UND in the Big Sky.

No, that is just your 'arrogance' showing through, according to Captain Knows-Alot.

[dakota fairways]

since the letter has been referenced again, something caught my eye that I had just read over before -

... the Presidents were comfortable with your personal position and the position that the University has taken ...

Considering the overall tone of the letter --- huh?

Still fels like UND is between a rock and a hard place & the NCAA has found help to push the rock.

[The Sicatoka]

"Could this lead to a time when league play and possibly league membership itself could be affected?"

That is a classic, thinly-veiled, passive-aggressive, realm-of-academia threat.

[iramurphy]

Sic, to declare that membership is a threat based on that letter is arrogance on your part.

John Roberts and Ruth Ginsburg read the same documents, yet arrive at vastly different conclusions.

Fullerton is stating that UND will potentially be subject to the same Big Sky sanctions that the NCAA imparts: the inability to host playoff games.

To date, the Big Sky has not enacted any policy, which totally contradicts Kelley's statements to the press.

"to date the Big Sky has not enacted any....". Are you serious? Would you really wait until they do?? it will be too late then!

What the hell are they teaching UND students these days?? There was nothing "arrogant" in Sicatoka's post. His other posts on this subject are also spot on. The few of you who still don't see the threat to UND, UND athletics and even UND hockey just don't get it. UND's admission to the Big Sky is at risk. That is a fact. The Gophers and Badgers and now possibly the other Big Ten hockey schools may not play UND. The league is ultimately controlled by the presidents of the respective schools not the coaches or even AD's. The college preseidents basically run the NCAA. That is one reason the NCAA is hypocritical and inconsistent. These guys are PC types without the courage to solve the real issues of kids taking money, drug use and academic fraud. This is an issue they can and will win unless the Standing Rock Tribe saves the name. Maybe that is how it should be. The real Sioux can step up and fight for the name and logo or maybe we shouldn't be calling our athletic teams the Fighting Sioux. Are the supporters the feared fighters our announcers claim they are before our athletic events, or are they not interested enough to get things done.

Some of you insulted those on this board who warned we would lose the Gophers and Badgers on the hockey schedule. That has come to pass. Some criticized those who were crazy enough to suggest our Big Sky membership might be in jeopardy if the name issue wasn't resolved either with NCAA approval or by complying with the agreement. That has come to pass. Write this down and see how this turns out: Hockey East and the other Big Ten hockey schools consider not playing UND if the issue isn't resolved. A few hundred people with a snootful of booze and the logo on thier shirts and hats have zero influence with the NCAA nor the college presidents who control these conferences, Dave Hakstol convinced enough people to lobby the state legislature but he won't be able to schedule some of the traditional hockey powers because of a name and logo. How smart was that? Which would you rather have: A great hockey schedule with no risk to our chances of winning and losing on the ice, or being able to sit at the end of the bar and shout to anyone who listens that we sure showed "them"( whomever them is). We will have all of the home and home series with St. Lawrence and Ferris State and maybe soon St. John's or Concordia.

Quit wasting time criticizing UND officials for what you think but don't know about. Al Carlson is an NDSU guy who could care less about UND and in no way should he ever be elected to congress or the senate if you are a UND fan, He has helped create a disaster for UND and UND athletics and insulted Kelly. Doesn't matter if you like Kelly or not, Carlson is a jerk who is using the logo issue to try and position himself for future political gain. Some of us have been working to get support for the name and logo before some of the rest of you were even born. We have had plenty of time and the time is out and we didn''t get it done. During those last forty years we have won National and league championships in hockey, FB, WBB, and been a power in swimming in addition to the other successes. The name hasn't won one game, scored one point, nor blocked one puck. I think it is a great name and logo but our athletes, coaches, and the University are more important than the name.

I can't tell you what all the other schools and conferences will do over the next few years but I can say with conviction that if we are sanctioned by the NCAA and the name stays we won't be getting any teams who will come calling to get us on their schedule because the name stays. You want to win games or do you want to win a pissing contest with the NCAA and the PC crowd? Frankly I don't hang with those types when I can help it. I would rather associate with those who are on the field, the ice, the courts and are competing. We need to quit screwing a dead horse here and move on because soon it will be too late. We need to support the board and UND officials who are trying to get this dumb-ass legislation reversed. It has done nothing for the name and has put UND athletics and the University at risk potentially for years to come.

[Ole in MSP]

"to date the Big Sky has not enacted any....". Are you serious? Would you really wait until they do?? it will be too late then!

What the hell are they teaching UND students these days?? There was nothing "arrogant" in Sicatoka's post. His other posts on this subject are also spot on. The few of you who still don't see the threat to UND, UND athletics and even UND hockey just don't get it. UND's admission to the Big Sky is at risk. That is a fact. The Gophers and Badgers and now possibly the other Big Ten hockey schools may not play UND. The league is ultimately controlled by the presidents of the respective schools not the coaches or even AD's. The college preseidents basically run the NCAA. That is one reason the NCAA is hypocritical and inconsistent. These guys are PC types without the courage to solve the real issues of kids taking money, drug use and academic fraud. This is an issue they can and will win unless the Standing Rock Tribe saves the name. Maybe that is how it should be. The real Sioux can step up and fight for the name and logo or maybe we shouldn't be calling our athletic teams the Fighting Sioux. Are the supporters the feared fighters our announcers claim they are before our athletic events, or are they not interested enough to get things done.

Some of you insulted those on this board who warned we would lose the Gophers and Badgers on the hockey schedule. That has come to pass. Some criticized those who were crazy enough to suggest our Big Sky membership might be in jeopardy if the name issue wasn't resolved either with NCAA approval or by complying with the agreement. That has come to pass. Write this down and see how this turns out: Hockey East and the other Big Ten hockey schools consider not playing UND if the issue isn't resolved. A few hundred people with a snootful of booze and the logo on thier shirts and hats have zero influence with the NCAA nor the college presidents who control these conferences, Dave Hakstol convinced enough people to lobby the state legislature but he won't be able to schedule some of the traditional hockey powers because of a name and logo. How smart was that? Which would you rather have: A great hockey schedule with no risk to our chances of winning and losing on the ice, or being able to sit at the end of the bar and shout to anyone who listens that we sure showed "them"( whomever them is). We will have all of the home and home series with St. Lawrence and Ferris State and maybe soon St. John's or Concordia.

Quit wasting time criticizing UND officials for what you think but don't know about. Al Carlson is an NDSU guy who could care less about UND and in no way should he ever be elected to congress or the senate if you are a UND fan, He has helped create a disaster for UND and UND athletics and insulted Kelly. Doesn't matter if you like Kelly or not, Carlson is a jerk who is using the logo issue to try and position himself for future political gain. Some of us have been working to get support for the name and logo before some of the rest of you were even born. We have had plenty of time and the time is out and we didn''t get it done. During those last forty years we have won National and league championships in hockey, FB, WBB, and been a power in swimming in addition to the other successes. The name hasn't won one game, scored one point, nor blocked one puck. I think it is a great name and logo but our athletes, coaches, and the University are more important than the name.

I can't tell you what all the other schools and conferences will do over the next few years but I can say with conviction that if we are sanctioned by the NCAA and the name stays we won't be getting any teams who will come calling to get us on their schedule because the name stays. You want to win games or do you want to win a pissing contest with the NCAA and the PC crowd? Frankly I don't hang with those types when I can help it. I would rather associate with those who are on the field, the ice, the courts and are competing. We need to quit screwing a dead horse here and move on because soon it will be too late. We need to support the board and UND officials who are trying to get this dumb-ass legislation reversed. It has done nothing for the name and has put UND athletics and the University at risk potentially for years to come.

AMEN!!

[und78]

Sometimes I wonder if there really are that many morons on this message board or if it is just one guy logged-in under 10 different names.

Look, there are so many stupid points on this thread that it is hard to even know where to start. So I will simply say that Dr. Kelley and Brian Faison both have the best interest of the ENTIRE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT in mind and not just what is best for one sport. I have watched with DISGUST as both of these guys have come under attack in the media the past month, particulary when it has come at the hands of former hockey alums like Burgraff. These guys "get it" when it comes to Division I athletics. Can we not compare them to the last two jerk-offs we had at those spots (Kupchella and Buning) and not agree we upgraded?

It isn't quite as conspiratorial as many of you would like to make it. I personally respect the hell out of Kelley for coming out and saying what anyone with common-sense already can see: That keeping the nickname will have major negative consequences for all of UND athletics (Yes, even precious hockey). I will defer to his and Brian Faison's expertise on the matter between their combined 50+ years working in college administrations as opposed to the expert bartenders, farmers, and car mechanics that might be posting on here.

I feel dumber for having even taken the time to respond to the original post on this thread.

[iramurphy]

Sometimes I wonder if there really are that many morons on this message board or if it is just one guy logged-in under 10 different names.

Look, there are so many stupid points on this thread that it is hard to even know where to start. So I will simply say that Dr. Kelley and Brian Faison both have the best interest of the ENTIRE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT in mind and not just what is best for one sport. I have watched with DISGUST as both of these guys have come under attack in the media the past month, particulary when it has come at the hands of former hockey alums like Burgraff. These guys "get it" when it comes to Division I athletics. Can we not compare them to the last two jerk-offs we had at those spots (Kupchella and Buning) and not agree we upgraded?

It isn't quite as conspiratorial as many of you would like to make it. I personally respect the hell out of Kelley for coming out and saying what anyone with common-sense already can see: That keeping the nickname will have major negative consequences for all of UND athletics (Yes, even precious hockey). I will defer to his and Brian Faison's expertise on the matter between their combined 50+ years working in college administrations as opposed to the expert bartenders, farmers, and car mechanics that might be posting on here.

I feel dumber for having even taken the time to respond to the original post on this thread.

Good post. Funny how I don;t see Frank's name among the big donors to the athletic department. Maybe he uses a different name or vehicle. Frank took a cheap shot at UND officials without knowing what the hell he was talking about. Disagree with Kelly or Faison but get the facts straight.

[star2city]

Strange how none of the previous tirades have addressed the core issue of this thread:

Kelley claimed in the media that their was a Big Sky vote against UND's nickname.

Fullerton adamantly denied that, and stated that any vote regarding UND would be on the right to host.

The NCAA has claimed the Big Sky has passed a resolution identical to it's own on the nickname.

Those are the facts, and nobody has refuted those words from either Kelley or Fullerton or the NCAA.

Cleary, someone has misinformed the media and the NCAA.

It's either Fullerton or Kelley.

Stick your head in the sand all you want, either Kelley lied or Fullerton lied.

Kelley could have taken the ethical high road like Clifford would have done and reported the facts: instead he chose to launch an all-out political attack to get his way.

In this thread, I have never ever denied that the Sioux nickname wouldn't have extremely serious consequences to the athletic department. If the Big Sky banned UND from hosting post-season events, that would be a major blow. There is absolutely no denying that.

But having a President with ethical issues is equally a major blow.

[Unknown Siouxldier]

The stages of grief are really at work here: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and for some acceptance. A very vivid rainbow of feelings expressed.

I think those who are angry are absolutely correct in their anger at whoever they attribute it to. I think most would agree that Kelly and Faison never took a stand in support of the name and for many (I'll throw myself in this camp) that's treasonous.

[green_sioux]

Strange how none of the previous tirades have addressed the core issue of this thread:

Kelley claimed in the media that their was a Big Sky vote against UND's nickname.

Fullerton adamantly denied that, and stated that any vote regarding UND would be on the right to host.

The NCAA has claimed the Big Sky has passed a resolution identical to it's own on the nickname.

Those are the facts, and nobody has refuted those words from either Kelley or Fullerton or the NCAA.

Cleary, someone has misinformed the media and the NCAA.

It's either Fullerton or Kelley.

Stick your head in the sand all you want, either Kelley lied or Fullerton lied.

Kelley could have taken the ethical high road like Clifford would have done and reported the facts: instead he chose to launch an all-out political attack to get his way.

In this thread, I have never ever denied that the Sioux nickname wouldn't have extremely serious consequences to the athletic department. If the Big Sky banned UND from hosting post-season events, that would be a major blow. There is absolutely no denying that.

But having a President with ethical issues is equally a major blow.

you make a lot of assertions and accusations while knowing maybe 10% of the actual total facts. None of us on here will ever know all the discussions, negotiations and details that have gone into the nickname situation over the years between all the parties. Rumors and opinions aren't facts. Neither are opinions based on opinions. Making bold statements on emotion, opinion and 10% of the facts don't make them "facts". To claim you know enough to be calling out Kelley and demanding his head shows a level of ignorance that is beneath even an anonymous sports message board. It's reached the silly stage.

[Hawkster]

Strange how none of the previous tirades have addressed the core issue of this thread:

Kelley claimed in the media that their was a Big Sky vote against UND's nickname.

Fullerton adamantly denied that, and stated that any vote regarding UND would be on the right to host.

The NCAA has claimed the Big Sky has passed a resolution identical to it's own on the nickname.

Those are the facts, and nobody has refuted those words from either Kelley or Fullerton or the NCAA.

Cleary, someone has misinformed the media and the NCAA.

It's either Fullerton or Kelley.

Stick your head in the sand all you want, either Kelley lied or Fullerton lied.

Kelley could have taken the ethical high road like Clifford would have done and reported the facts: instead he chose to launch an all-out political attack to get his way.

In this thread, I have never ever denied that the Sioux nickname wouldn't have extremely serious consequences to the athletic department. If the Big Sky banned UND from hosting post-season events, that would be a major blow. There is absolutely no denying that.

But having a President with ethical issues is equally a major blow.

You are the man with all the answers but none of the proof. You are so full of hot air, I'm tempted to put you on ignore, but I really do enjoy the humor. You do not speak for all of us, I'm not sure you speak for anyone, really. Quit thinking this is one big conspiracy and only you can prevent it from happening.

Maybe you can at least answer this. Why is it no one else has these ''facts"?

[CAS4127]

Douple's original story about the nickname preventing UND from gaining admittance to the Summit League was always contrived. The nickname has been unfairly vilified for years, and sooner or later people began to believe it.

As Carlson stated, a now open dirty little secret is that certain members of the SBoHE always wanted the nickname gone. The SBoHE and Chapman hatched the nickname scheme with Douple, with Kelley complicit in it.

Since Douple's continued employment relies on NDSU's support at Summit President's meetings, Douple couldn't go out and expose the whole story, only the part about Kelley being involved. The SBoHE would have demanded Douple's scalp if Douple told more. Many of the SBoHE members probably never knew about any fix, including Shaft and Espegaard.

One of the reasons that the nickname vote was so lopsided in the legislature was that legislators were so outraged by SBoHE nickname fix. That as well as the Chapman situation has totally antagonized the legislature toward the SBoHE.

The expenses that the Big Sky is concerned about are potential for UND to host a post-season tournament. Since there is often only five days to purchase a airplane ticket, there wouldn't be any cheap fares. For regular conference games, the air expenses are much much less, as those travel arrangements are made months in advance.

For Fullerton's dream of an FBS/FCS conference to happen, UND has to be part of the conference: nickname or not.

Star--you really need to get on some psychiatric medication for paranoia!! I mean, really?!!!!!!!

Also, please arrange to be in padded room wearing a flack jacket and having no guns or sharp instruments around you when this all comes to pass. Oh, and post some links to your "facts" for credibility sake.

It's Charlie Stock, btw!