POLL: Should UND-NDSU Resume the Football Series?

[Bison06]

I didn't mean to demean anybody thats in pharmacy, agriculture, or engineering, they are all honorable professions. What I meant is that universties survive on research and alumni donors. In that reguard I believe lawyers, md.'s, and pilots are more likely to give large sums of money to their chosen universities. I also believe that the EERC (Environmental&Energy Research Center) at UND is heavily envolved with the oil boom going on in the western part of the state likely ensuring more dollars coming in to UND. Cash is what colleges need to survive. It's unlikely any fcs football program anywhere could supply the type of revenue needed to sustain a university. Until either NDSU or UND can fill up a 100,000 seat "Big House" for football academics will still be the engine that drives the universities, for which I believe UND is more equipped to do than NDSU. That is only an opinion and one persons observation.

I am likely younger than some on here based on the names people have presented so someone correct me if this is incorrect. But it seems to me that historically the entrepenuership and business programs have probably served UND more in the capacity you are speaking about than the MD, Law and Aviation programs.

I believe your point is fair and accurate though.

[Teeder11]

I am likely younger than some on here based on the names people have presented so someone correct me if this is incorrect. But it seems to me that historically the entrepenuership and business programs have probably served UND more in the capacity you are speaking about than the MD, Law and Aviation programs.

I believe your point is fair and accurate though.

It's kind of all over the map as far as giving, but, yes, you are right, many of the huge donations have come from alums of the Business School, which encompasses the Entrepreneurship program. But many of the medium-sized (yet sizable in their own right) gifts -- ones that are big but don't merit a press release -- come from the thousands of doctors, lawyers and engineers that UND has produced over the years. These are the gifts that keep fund-raising efforts churning between the big ones.

I am most excited about engineering at UND -- of all things, especially the new School of Petroleum Engineering. Stay tuned in the very near future for big news related to that school that might make everyone's collective jaw hit the floor. Catch the spirit!

[Gothmog]

I didn't mean to demean anybody thats in pharmacy, agriculture, or engineering, they are all honorable professions. What I meant is that universties survive on research and alumni donors. In that reguard I believe lawyers, md.'s, and pilots are more likely to give large sums of money to their chosen universities. I also believe that the EERC (Environmental&Energy Research Center) at UND is heavily envolved with the oil boom going on in the western part of the state likely ensuring more dollars coming in to UND. Cash is what colleges need to survive. It's unlikely any fcs football program anywhere could supply the type of revenue needed to sustain a university. Until either NDSU or UND can fill up a 100,000 seat "Big House" for football academics will still be the engine that drives the universities, for which I believe UND is more equipped to do than NDSU. That is only an opinion and one persons observation.

Not to demean anyone, but NDSU is, by a considerable margin, the larger research institution.

[Jheria]

Than why did he ask for it to begin with? He was given what he wanted, now he won't acknowledge it. I think an explanation is warranted when you go out in the media saying there is only one deal you will take and when that deal is presented to you, you go silent on it.

It's like buying a house, An offer is made and you say no and make a counter offer. I say no to the counter offer and that i'm firm on the origional offer. You say no. Then later you come back and say I'll take the origional offer and I say sorry I already sold to someone else.

[Gothmog]

It's like buying a house, An offer is made and you say no and make a counter offer. I say no to the counter offer and that i'm firm on the origional offer. You say no. Then later you come back and say I'll take the origional offer and I say sorry I already sold to someone else.

Or, you just decided not to sell your house. Either way, the offer isn't on the table anymore. No explanation is necessary.

[82SiouxGuy]

The whole house sales comparison doesn't really cut it. And here's why. Both UND and NDSU are owned by the people of North Dakota. Ultimately Gene Taylor and every other employee at both NDSU and UND work for the people of North Dakota. Scheduling this game is like trying to negotiate a contract between 2 departments of the same business, not like selling a house.

At some point there will be enough people demanding the game happens that Gene will be forced to put it on the schedule (if he is still at NDSU). I don't know whether that will come from the legislature or in another form. But it's going to happen. It's happened in other states where in state rivals should be playing and weren't. NDSU is just putting off the inevitable.

[Gothmog]

The whole house sales comparison doesn't really cut it. And here's why. Both UND and NDSU are owned by the people of North Dakota. Ultimately Gene Taylor and every other employee at both NDSU and UND work for the people of North Dakota. Scheduling this game is like trying to negotiate a contract between 2 departments of the same business, not like selling a house.

At some point there will be enough people demanding the game happens that Gene will be forced to put it on the schedule (if he is still at NDSU). I don't know whether that will come from the legislature or in another form. But it's going to happen. It's happened in other states where in state rivals should be playing and weren't. NDSU is just putting off the inevitable.

You know, I used to think that, eventually, the legislature would intervene in the situation and require the two schools to play each other again. But, given Al Carlson's ill-fated attempt to intervene in the nickname issue, I now highly doubt that will happen -- at least not anytime soon. It's been almost 10 years since the last Bison-SIoux game. The world hasn't exploded and the game, in my opinion has really not been missed, certainly not by NDSU fans. In fact, these have been great years for football in the state. Years of exciting changes and new challenges. Better, by far, than anything that preceded them. Including the old, poisonous rivalry.

As each year passes it becomes less and less likely the the rivalry will be renewed. Kolpack was right, the era has passed, the football rivalry is dead.

[UNDvince97-01]

Conveniently forgetting that NDSU and UND were in the same conference back then?

Really?

I specifically cited the NCC, when they were both in the same conference.

Back to your Reading Comp 101 course in the quonset...

[Hayduke]

None of those are considered professional in the same way that law and medicine are. They are very good programs, but they aren't classic professional programs.

NDSU is good at what it does.

UND is good at what it does.

But, the bottom line is that UND is the flagship school in the state of North Dakota. NDSU is #2.

[homer]

As each year passes it becomes less and less likely the the rivalry will be renewed. Kolpack was right, the era has passed, the football rivalry is dead.

Your right, I'm sure Kolpack and other Bison fans wouldn't bother showing up if the game was scheduled. There probably wouldn't be any more excitement for a game vs. UND than a game vs. SIU, SDSU or USD. It would be an easy ticket to get and I'm pretty sure your Bville message board would be dead immediately after the game was announced or in the weeks leading up to the game. Can I put any more sarcasm into that post. Bison fans trying to sell that they have moved on and wouldn't care about this game is funny. If it gets on the schedule it will immediately be the biggest game for that year. You know it would be.

The reason the game hasn't been scheduled isn't because Gene Taylor and Craig Bohl have moved on. See last years men's basketball and volleyball if you want the reason.

[UNDvince97-01]

Not to demean anyone, but NDSU is, by a considerable margin, the larger research institution.

[darell1976]

You know, I used to think that, eventually, the legislature would intervene in the situation and require the two schools to play each other again. But, given Al Carlson's ill-fated attempt to intervene in the nickname issue, I now highly doubt that will happen -- at least not anytime soon. It's been almost 10 years since the last Bison-SIoux game. The world hasn't exploded and the game, in my opinion has really not been missed, certainly not by NDSU fans. In fact, these have been great years for football in the state. Years of exciting changes and new challenges. Better, by far, than anything that preceded them. Including the old, poisonous rivalry.

As each year passes it becomes less and less likely the the rivalry will be renewed. Kolpack was right, the era has passed, the football rivalry is dead.

I agree. Carlson should have tried to get the legislature on board with renewing the rivalry for a future time to start, 2012 would've been perfect since UND was finally playoff eligible. But he laid all his eggs in the basket of the Fighting Sioux nickname and it backfired on him. Now he looks like a joke to everyone so even he did have legislature to get the teams to play it won't pass. Its up to the schools not the house or senate.

[Johnny Five]

Holy crap, 73 pages and still going? I'd love to see UNDs offense vs the Bison defense this fall. It would be a great matchup. I'd also love to see the Bison methodically punish the UND defense up and down the field 10-12 plays a drive.

Gotta love the volleyball and hoops comparisons.

GT must be dong something right. I have 5 season tickets and it took me until Thursday to be able to find 2 extras anywhere in the building for my kids buddies vs a terrible team. Not a bad problem to have if you are the A.D.

I'd give my other nut for a playoff matchup this fall. Good luck as you enter big sky play today, let's make this happen.

[Johnny Five]

Politicians have more important things to worry about.

[Bison06]

Really?

I specifically cited the NCC, when they were both in the same conference.

Back to your Reading Comp 101 course in the quonset...

You referenced the NCC, but you implied that to use possible playoff implications as a reason to not play the game today doesn't hold water because they used to play every year when playoffs were just as much on the line then as now. What you failed to point out was the major difference between then and now, UND and NDSU were forced to play due to the conference schedule.

Thanks for your concern about my reading comprehension.

[UNDvince97-01]

You referenced the NCC, but you implied that to use possible playoff implications as a reason to not play the game today doesn't hold water because they used to play every year when playoffs were just as much on the line then as now. What you failed to point out was the major difference between then and now, UND and NDSU were forced to play due to the conference schedule.

Thanks for your concern about my reading comprehension.

OK.....last post on this....

All I'm saying is that when they played each other then, the schedule and making the playoffs and hosting D2 games then was as difficult as it is now in FCS. It's all relative.

ndsu is scared to lose a game that hurts their playoff chances and home field chances. That's why they won't schedule UND.

Oh yeah I forgot, and finances......and marketing strategy.....

[Teeder11]

Not to demean anyone, but NDSU is, by a considerable margin, the larger research institution.

Ag "research funding" to support the overhead and extension agents (not scientists) at all of those Experiment Stations in every county across North Dakota, as mandated by an archaic federal law, makes it seem that way on paper, anyway.

[Bison06]

OK.....last post on this....

All I'm saying is that when they played each other then, the schedule and making the playoffs and hosting D2 games then was as difficult as it is now in FCS. It's all relative.

ndsu is scared to lose a game that hurts their playoff chances and home field chances. That's why they won't schedule UND.

Oh yeah I forgot, and finances......and marketing strategy.....

Again, scared isn't the right word. If it makes you feel better to think NDSU is scared of UND go right ahead. In reality it is prudent scheduling with the ultimate goal of making the playoffs in mind.

As I have said many times and it has beaten to death, our conference schedule already has us playing 3-5 ranked teams per year. UND will most likely become a team that is ranked in the top 25 year in and year out. With the strength of schedule we already have in place, why would NDSU add another high quality opponent, whether it is UND or someone else?

Every team on the freaking planet schedules this way, hell UND schedules this way. Why do you think South Dakota Mines was on the schedule this year? Its good to have 1-2 easier games to prepare yourself for the difficult conference schedule.

Looking at it from the state's perspective and revenue, why would the state want UND and NDSU to meet in the regular season each year with the possiblity of eliminating one or the other from the playoffs? It would be better for the state if both NDSU and UND made the playoffs and were able to both host home games.

[Teeder11]

Again, scared isn't the right word. If it makes you feel better to think NDSU is scared of UND go right ahead. In reality it is prudent scheduling with the ultimate goal of making the playoffs in mind.

As I have said many times and it has beaten to death, our conference schedule already has us playing 3-5 ranked teams per year. UND will most likely become a team that is ranked in the top 25 year in and year out. With the strength of schedule we already have in place, why would NDSU add another high quality opponent, whether it is UND or someone else?

Every team on the freaking planet schedules this way, hell UND schedules this way. Why do you think South Dakota Mines was on the schedule this year? Its good to have 1-2 easier games to prepare yourself for the difficult conference schedule.

Looking at it from the state's perspective and revenue, why would the state want UND and NDSU to meet in the regular season each year with the possiblity of eliminating one or the other from the playoffs? It would be better for the state if both NDSU and UND made the playoffs and were able to both host home games.

Believe every UND fan when we say what I am about to say -- loud and clear: South Dakota School of Mines was not scheduled to help our playoff chances. In fact, it will do far, far, far, far (did I say "far") more to hurt our chances of sniffing the playoffs regardless of how bad we beat them.

UND fans are beside themselves with disgust that our AD persisted with this meaningless schedule filler of a game. We have never been explained the reason for this game and we are certainly not stumbling over each other to defend it as the school's ingenious master "marketing strategy" like we are seeing a lot of down south with the scheduling of some of the softer teams on the SU schedule (at $200,000 or so a head).

Bottom line: We hated the scheduling of SD Mines... we wanted a definite playoff counter team in there, and whether it was a product of the transition years when scheduling was an utter challenge or because of something else we are not privy to, I cannot be more emphatic that we are not embracing it as a good thing.

IT WILL ONLY HURT OUR PLAYOFF CHANCES!!!!

[krangodance]

Again, scared isn't the right word. If it makes you feel better to think NDSU is scared of UND go right ahead. In reality it is prudent scheduling with the ultimate goal of making the playoffs in mind.

As I have said many times and it has beaten to death, our conference schedule already has us playing 3-5 ranked teams per year. UND will most likely become a team that is ranked in the top 25 year in and year out. With the strength of schedule we already have in place, why would NDSU add another high quality opponent, whether it is UND or someone else?

Every team on the freaking planet schedules this way, hell UND schedules this way. Why do you think South Dakota Mines was on the schedule this year? Its good to have 1-2 easier games to prepare yourself for the difficult conference schedule.

Looking at it from the state's perspective and revenue, why would the state want UND and NDSU to meet in the regular season each year with the possiblity of eliminating one or the other from the playoffs? It would be better for the state if both NDSU and UND made the playoffs and were able to both host home games.

Interesting perspective. Respectful post I might add, especially considering the post to which you're responding.

I'd still like to see them play though. Even if it was just every other year. They could still both make the playoffs just the same as two teams in the same conference regularly make the playoffs even though they play each other every year. Like Montana and Montana State.

If we were talking FBS then I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

[Jheria]

OK.....last post on this....

All I'm saying is that when they played each other then, the schedule and making the playoffs and hosting D2 games then was as difficult as it is now in FCS. It's all relative.

ndsu is scared to lose a game that hurts their playoff chances and home field chances. That's why they won't schedule UND.

Oh yeah I forgot, and finances......and marketing strategy.....

Go back and read BigOly's post (1437 I believe) as he sums it up pretty well. Nothing to gain does not = being scared.

[Gothmog]

Ag "research funding" to support the overand had and extension agents (not scientists) at all of those Experiment Stations in every county across North Dakota, as mandated by an archaic federal law, makes it seem that way on paper, anyway.

Sure, Ag research isn't very Important, especially not in a state like ND. And we're only talking 50 million or so. No big deal.

BTW - read the post I responded to. It implies that that ndsu needs football as a source of revenue because und has such an advantage in research and donations. That's not simply not true.

[Bison06]

Believe every UND fan when we say what I am about to say -- loud and clear: South Dakota School of Mines was not scheduled to help our playoff chances. In fact, it will do far, far, far, far (did I say "far") more to hurt our chances of sniffing the playoffs regardless of how bad we beat them.

UND fans are beside themselves with disgust that our AD persisted with this meaningless schedule filler of a game. We have never been explained the reason for this game and we are certainly not stumbling over each other to defend it as the school's ingenious master "marketing strategy" like we are seeing a lot of down south with the scheduling of some of the softer teams on the SU schedule (at $200,000 or so a head).

Bottom line: We hated the scheduling of SD Mines... we wanted a definite playoff counter team in there, and whether it was a product of the transition years when scheduling was an utter challenge or because of something else we are not privy to, I cannot be more emphatic that we are not embracing it as a good thing.

IT WILL ONLY HURT OUR PLAYOFF CHANCES!!!!

Fair enough, SD Mines was a poor example because they are not a DI counter. But plug in some other DI team of equal talent from the east coast and you will see them on UND's schedule in the near future.

My point is that football scheduling is not a contest to see who can have the hardest schedule year in and year out. In fact, in the FCS the team with the hardest schedule rarely makes the playoffs. I realize it was likely done for financial reason, but look at UNI this year. If they don't have the most difficult schedule in FCS it has to be pretty close to it. They might be eliminated from the playoffs after next weekend. How do you think the fanbase is going to respond to that?

Scheduling is a balance between challenging games and giving yourself an opportunity to make the postseason and add revenue to the athletic department. Adding another high quality opponent on a consistent basis is not in the cards for NDSU due to the difficulty of the conference schedule.

[Teeder11]

Sure, Ag research isn't very Important, especially not in a state like ND. And we're only talking 50 million or so. No big deal.

BTW - read the post I responded to. It implies that that ndsu needs football as a source of revenue.

Not saying it's not important to the state, or any state, for that matter, just saying that it's federal money that UND is absolutely positively beyond a shadow of a doubt NOT eligible at all to receive by virtue of NDSU's designation as the state's sole recipient of those funds. We can't compete for them because the way the federal funding model is set up, we're not even allowed on to the field.

NDSU can start up its own Aerospace School if it wanted to and lure federal research dollars that way, the way that John Odegard did 40 years ago with his seed of a dream at UND. There are countless other examples of things that are not duplicative to UND that NDSU could dream up and make happen and that are not prohibited by federal law to do so.

UND VPs of Research dating back to Peter Alfonso have been standing on their desks shouting this message to the world but has so far fallen on deaf unsympathetic ears.

Now I don't think it's a bad thing. I think it's great that NDSU gets what it gets from federal ag sources for the Experiment Stations. It just should also be mentioned that these are dollars that UND are not eligible at all to receive.

[SiouxVolley]

I am most excited about engineering at UND -- of all things, especially the new School of Petroleum Engineering. Stay tuned in the very near future for big news related to that school that might make everyone's collective jaw hit the floor. Catch the spirit!

Can you say anything more about this? Heard there is a UND alum that has accumulated 300,000 acres of mineral rights starting 50 years ago in the Bakken, which is probably worth $3 or 4 billion now. Harold Hamm has made trips to UND and has been very supportive of developing a petroleum engineering school, and he has a net worth something like $10 billion. Even a 1% donation from either, both of whom are elderly and philanthropic, would be very large.