PhillySioux Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Lets assume the following: 1) The bill (soon to be law) survives all the potential challenges. 2) As a result, UND is instructed by whomever to keep the name. 3) NCAA remains steadfast, places UND back on the Sanctions list. 4) Using the sanctions as they exist now (assuming NCAA doesn' expand punishments.) 5) UND will be barred from hosting football playoff games (amongst some non-revenue sport opportunities I suppose). Is that too steep a price or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 you know the old assume line - but in this case it is just u not me couldn't resist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillySioux Posted March 12, 2011 Author Share Posted March 12, 2011 you know the old assume line - but in this case it is just u not me couldn't resist True enough, though I prefer "Prepare for the worst, hope for the best." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Good Poll. I like the majorities answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShilohSioux Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Good Poll. I like the majorities answer. Are we sure this will be the only repercussion? Will we lose the ability to play Minnesota, Wisconsin and others in non-league games? Will we be banned from post-season appearances completely by a punitive NCAA? Will enough teams in the Big Sky, who thought this issue was behind us, object? Will there be a costly legal battle that will drag on in the media and minds of recruits for several years? Will it be a distraction for recruits? The answer to all these may be "no" or some may not like the questons, but these are fair questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawksHoops Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Are we sure this will be the only repercussion? Will we lose the ability to play Minnesota, Wisconsin and others in non-league games? Will we be banned from post-season appearances completely by a punitive NCAA? Will enough teams in the Big Sky, who thought this issue was behind us, object? Will there be a costly legal battle that will drag on in the media and minds of recruits for several years? Will it be a distraction for recruits? The answer to all these may be "no" or some may not like the questons, but these are fair questions. Great points Shiloh. Unfortunately, I believe the answer to most of the questions you posed is "yes". Minnesota, Wisconsin and others have already refused to schedule UND in other sports. The NCAA is capricious enough to stick it to UND every chance it gets if we retain the name without tribal approval. Many Big Sky schools would object, although I'm not sure there is much they can do at this point. It would be costly both financially and in recruiting. Opposing schools would use the controversy and uncertainty with potential recruits. While I'm sure this would be an unpopular opinion, I believe people who only follow UND Men's Hockey would support keeping the name under any circumstances. In the short-run, these fans see few downsides to keeping the name. It would potentially cost hockey the chance to host a regional, but not much else. People who support UND athletics as a whole see the disaster that looms for the other programs if the name remains unchanged and the university ends up on a "hostile" list of one. I would also like to point out that if the Big Ten does form a hockey conference that does not include UND, the hockey team would not be able to play Minnesota or Wisconsin since there would be no conference affiliation. Like the majority of Sioux fans, I believe the NCAA is a shortsighted, arrogant, spiteful, pathetic collection of wannabe intellectuals. Unfortunately, it's their show in the end. Hope a miracle happens in the next few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIOUXPR Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 There isn't a University President, Athletic Director, Coach, Dean, Chancellor, or Provost in the country that would accept these types of life long sanctions against their school. Accepting the sanctions would not only effect Football, but every other sport at UND that could possibly host NCAA events. Those sports include Volleyball, Soccer, Tennis, Baseball/Softball, Track/X-Country, and Swimming. If you think that none of these sports would host any way, you are dead wrong as a number of these sports have hosted NCAA tourneys in the past. While these may not be big "money" sports like Football and Hockey, they still provide an economic impact to both the city and the University. The University will never let this fight get to the point of sanctions. Either we will negotiate with the NCAA for acceptance of the one tribe approval like other colleges and universities received (and has been mentioned on this board), or we will drop the name. Sanctions will never be part of the equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Are we sure this will be the only repercussion? Will we lose the ability to play Minnesota, Wisconsin and others in non-league games? Will we be banned from post-season appearances completely by a punitive NCAA? Will enough teams in the Big Sky, who thought this issue was behind us, object? Will there be a costly legal battle that will drag on in the media and minds of recruits for several years? Will it be a distraction for recruits? The answer to all these may be "no" or some may not like the questons, but these are fair questions. I think its best you try and get over your doomsday fear. The Fighting Sioux ain't going anywhere. Its thelaw of the land!!! Not playing Wi and MInn? Ohh no way. We never played them besides hockey when we were D2. Seemed to get by fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobIwabuchiFan Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 There isn't a University President, Athletic Director, Coach, Dean, Chancellor, or Provost in the country that would accept these types of life long sanctions against their school. Accepting the sanctions would not only effect Football, but every other sport at UND that could possibly host NCAA events. Those sports include Volleyball, Soccer, Tennis, Baseball/Softball, Track/X-Country, and Swimming. If you think that none of these sports would host any way, you are dead wrong as a number of these sports have hosted NCAA tourneys in the past. While these may not be big "money" sports like Football and Hockey, they still provide an economic impact to both the city and the University. The University will never let this fight get to the point of sanctions. Either we will negotiate with the NCAA for acceptance of the one tribe approval like other colleges and universities received (and has been mentioned on this board), or we will drop the name. Sanctions will never be part of the equation. I hope you are right on the NCAA settlement adjustment because the other option ain't going to happen unless it gets voted down by SR folks on a real election or the SBOHE takes a poison pill and declines to implement the will of the people. So for all of our benefit, let's hope the Mr. Wrigley can convince the NCAA that they have their victory and move on to other more important issues like Ohio State's issues or the low graduation rates or an FBS tournament... BobIwabuchiFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 It would potentially cost hockey the chance to host a regional I know your new and to please the administrators I will say: Welcome to Siouxsports.com But let me fill you in. UND can't host a regional in the hockey. The NCAA only awards them to neutral sites. The Ralph ain't in the running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 There isn't a University President, Athletic Director, Coach, Dean, Chancellor, or Provost in the country that would accept these types of life long sanctions against their school. Accepting the sanctions would not only effect Football, but every other sport at UND that could possibly host NCAA events. Those sports include Volleyball, Soccer, Tennis, Baseball/Softball, Track/X-Country, and Swimming. If you think that none of these sports would host any way, you are dead wrong as a number of these sports have hosted NCAA tourneys in the past. While these may not be big "money" sports like Football and Hockey, they still provide an economic impact to both the city and the University. The University will never let this fight get to the point of sanctions. Either we will negotiate with the NCAA for acceptance of the one tribe approval like other colleges and universities received (and has been mentioned on this board), or we will drop the name. Sanctions will never be part of the equation. That is simply untrue. Every NCAA school in the state of South Carolina faces a post-season hosting ban because of the South Carolina state capitol flag issue. The issue is different, but the legislature component and relationship with the NCAA are similar. South Carolina school AD's and Presidents did not resign en masse, nor have any of the public schools in South Carolina faced difficulty in filling those positions. Moreover, none of those South Carolina schools faced additional sanctions from the NCAA because of their legislature's actions. The schools in question are South Carolina, Clemson, South Carolina State, Coastal Carolina, College of Charleston, South Carolina-Upstate, Winthrop, and The Citadel. DII schools like Greenville and Francis Marion are also effected. Moreover South Carolina-Upstate transitioned to Division I immediately prior to UND and has not faced additional sanctions or delays in its move to DI because of the state legislature's actions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Either we will negotiate with the NCAA for acceptance of the one tribe approval like other colleges and universities received (and has been mentioned on this board), or we will drop the name. Sanctions will never be part of the equation. We haven't always agreed. Here we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Not playing Wi and MInn? Ohh no way. We never played them besides hockey when we were D2. Seemed to get by fine. Part that concerns me is that once the Big Ten hockey conference gets started hockey won't be playing UMTC or UW either. Now maybe they wouldn't schedule us regardless of names since they love to have home games and we'd want home and homes, but that is a maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big A HG Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I don't see how the NCAA can essentially tell UND "we will punish you unless you break a state law". Are they really arrogant enough to think that they are above state law? Are they actually delusional enough to think they can get away with it? I think either they're going to eventually back down or else get destroyed in court. I sure hope you are right, Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 There isn't a University President, Athletic Director, Coach, Dean, Chancellor, or Provost in the country that would accept these types of life long sanctions against their school. Accepting the sanctions would not only effect Football, but every other sport at UND that could possibly host NCAA events. Those sports include Volleyball, Soccer, Tennis, Baseball/Softball, Track/X-Country, and Swimming. If you think that none of these sports would host any way, you are dead wrong as a number of these sports have hosted NCAA tourneys in the past. While these may not be big "money" sports like Football and Hockey, they still provide an economic impact to both the city and the University. The University will never let this fight get to the point of sanctions. Either we will negotiate with the NCAA for acceptance of the one tribe approval like other colleges and universities received (and has been mentioned on this board), or we will drop the name. Sanctions will never be part of the equation. What about SR??? I find it so ironic that people like you, Jeanotte and the rest of the anti-nickname crowd has not uttered boo about the obvious trampling of the NA's rights on the SR reservation. "Racism...hostile...abusive..." Credibilty is zero for you folks for not having the stones to call out and take on the abusive power of the SR tribal council for not allowing the voices of their own people to be heard as you all have over your preceived issue with the logo and nickname. One tribe approval should be ok with the NCAA IMO especially when a majority of the SR Sioux live in SD, but hypocrisy is the NCAA's middle name. This will ultimately IMO go to a statewide general election vote of some kind and it will show overwhelming support from the people of SR and Sioux county...unfortuntely it probably won't matter. Democracy at it's finest?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewey Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Amen Ox. Amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillySioux Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 That is simply untrue. Every NCAA school in the state of South Carolina faces a post-season hosting ban because of the South Carolina state capitol flag issue. The issue is different, but the legislature component and relationship with the NCAA are similar. South Carolina school AD's and Presidents did not resign en masse, nor have any of the public schools in South Carolina faced difficulty in filling those positions. Moreover, none of those South Carolina schools faced additional sanctions from the NCAA because of their legislature's actions. The schools in question are South Carolina, Clemson, South Carolina State, Coastal Carolina, College of Charleston, South Carolina-Upstate, Winthrop, and The Citadel. DII schools like Greenville and Francis Marion are also effected. Moreover South Carolina-Upstate transitioned to Division I immediately prior to UND and has not faced additional sanctions or delays in its move to DI because of the state legislature's actions. An important point here: Conference Policy For first 8 years of the ban, the ACC and SEC respectively, effectively adopted the NCAAs postseason hosting ban for SC schools. Not to imply that the BigSky would do the same. But, we still do not know how the Big Sky will react as this evolves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAS4127 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 If I were a UND football coach, player or fan, or even the AD, I would not be willing to accept the sanction of not being allowed to host home playoff games. Heck, just being a football fan in the area, having such sanction would torque me off. Not to mention that the Alerus and UND athletics could use the influx of funds from a home FB playoff game. Wasn't there recently a thread on this forum about the Alerus' income problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIOUXPR Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 What about SR??? I find it so ironic that people like you, Jeanotte and the rest of the anti-nickname crowd has not uttered boo about the obvious trampling of the NA's rights on the SR reservation. "Racism...hostile...abusive..." Credibilty is zero for you folks for not having the stones to call out and take on the abusive power of the SR tribal council for not allowing the voices of their own people to be heard as you all have over your preceived issue with the logo and nickname. One tribe approval should be ok with the NCAA IMO especially when a majority of the SR Sioux live in SD, but hypocrisy is the NCAA's middle name. This will ultimately IMO go to a statewide general election vote of some kind and it will show overwhelming support from the people of SR and Sioux county...unfortuntely it probably won't matter. Democracy at it's finest?!?!? The Tribal Council is an elected body and made a decision. It may not be a popular decision, but I don't always agree with the decisions that my elected body has made. If I could vote on a repeal of "No Child Left Behind" I certainly would. Unfortunately not every issue goes to a popular vote. I don't know when the next Tribal Council elections are, but if Standing Rock is so in favor of the nickname, maybe they should vote for representatives who are also in favor of the nickname. The nickname was an issue in the last election and the people of Standing Rock voted for Representatives who are against the nickname. We have to accept that and move on. We can hope for the one tribe approval, maybe this legislation gave us a little more time to negotiate. Otherwise, the SBHE will challenge the constitutionally of this bill and order the nickname transition to proceed. Like I said, this will never get to sanctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Time Hockey Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 If I were a UND football coach, player or fan, or even the AD, I would not be willing to accept the sanction of not being allowed to host home playoff games. Heck, just being a football fan in the area, having such sanction would torque me off. Not to mention that the Alerus and UND athletics could use the influx of funds from a home FB playoff game. Wasn't there recently a thread on this forum about the Alerus' income problems? If revenue is such an issue, maybe they shouldn't have cancelled the Williams and Ree show!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Time Hockey Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 The Tribal Council is an elected body and made a decision. It may not be a popular decision, but I don't always agree with the decisions that my elected body has made. If I could vote on a repeal of "No Child Left Behind" I certainly would. Unfortunately not every issue goes to a popular vote. I don't know when the next Tribal Council elections are, but if Standing Rock is so in favor of the nickname, maybe they should vote for representatives who are also in favor of the nickname. The nickname was an issue in the last election and the people of Standing Rock voted for Representatives who are against the nickname. We have to accept that and move on. We can hope for the one tribe approval, maybe this legislation gave us a little more time to negotiate. Otherwise, the SBHE will challenge the constitutionally of this bill and order the nickname transition to proceed. Like I said, this will never get to sanctions. I wish somebody on here would drop their name! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAS4127 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 If revenue is such an issue, maybe they shouldn't have cancelled the Williams and Ree show!!!! There's a motorcycle show in there sometime in early April. Do you think they will ban Indian Motorcycles from participating?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawksHoops Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I know your new and to please the administrators I will say: Welcome to Siouxsports.com But let me fill you in. UND can't host a regional in the hockey. The NCAA only awards them to neutral sites. The Ralph ain't in the running. Whether it was to appease the mods or not, I appreciate the welcome. Thanks for the clarification. Since The Ralph hosted the West Regional in 2006 and the Sioux played at home, I assumed that was still the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillySioux Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Whether it was to appease the mods or not, I appreciate the welcome. Thanks for the clarification. Since The Ralph hosted the West Regional in 2006 and the Sioux played at home, I assumed that was still the case. But the UND women, should they be a top 4 national seed, would be in line to host a NCAA first round game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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