Attendance Woes

[The Sicatoka]

What draws crowds?

- meaningful games

- good opponents

- wins

- not playing on "bad" dates (like hunting openers)

And making the Alerus staff friendly wouldn't hurt either.

[Matt]

What draws crowds?

- meaningful games

- good opponents

- wins

- not playing on "bad" dates (like hunting openers)

And making the Alerus staff friendly wouldn't hurt either.

...and you really only need one of those. Look at NDSU in transition: no playoffs meant playing for the pride of a conf title only; good home opponents were rare; game dates weren't any different from UND

Winning is the differentiator.

[Hambone]

When the football team starts winning the fans will come. Everyone loves a winner. Since hockey is the dominate sport (by far) it's easy to figure out what the other sports have to do to get fans in the stands. WIN

Dan - this is one of the rare occassions where you are spot on with your analysis. I completely agree. You have now added value to a conversation on SiouxSports And don't worry, even when you don't add value I do like your ability to get people riled up over here......

[darell1976]

Just look at the attendance of Sioux hockey when we aren't winning back in the old Ralph. Crowds were small (except Minnesota). But you win a national title or even play for a national title and fans flock to the arena.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Just look at the attendance of Sioux hockey when we aren't winning back in the old Ralph. Crowds were small (except Minnesota). But you win a national title or even play for a national title and fans flock to the arena.

There are things the schools can do to make the football games more of an event. I think a lot of it starts with encouraging a fun tailgating environment. Good tailgating also means the schools have to allow alchohol comsumption as well as planning other "events" during the tailgate. If people look forward to a great tailgate as well as the game, I think that can blunt some of the negative attendance from a mediocre season. However, too many bad seasons in a row would spell problems for any program. In North Dakota, the tailgate issue is a big one, in large part because of the incredibly provincial attitude towards booze.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Dan - this is one of the rare occassions where you are spot on with your analysis. I completely agree. You have now added value to a conversation on SiouxSports And don't worry, even when you don't add value I do like your ability to get people riled up over here......

Posting on the WYO boards is a bit dull because there isn't another in-state school to argue with......

[darell1976]

There are things the schools can do to make the football games more of an event. I think a lot of it starts with encouraging a fun tailgating environment. Good tailgating also means the schools have to allow alchohol comsumption as well as planning other "events" during the tailgate. If people look forward to a great tailgate as well as the game, I think that can blunt some of the negative attendance from a mediocre season. However, too many bad seasons in a row would spell problems for any program. In North Dakota, the tailgate issue is a big one, in large part because of the incredibly provincial attitude towards booze.

The last time UND had back to back losses was 1985-86. That was the last season for Pat Behrns and the beginning of the Roger Thomas era. So historically UND bounces back from a losing season. 2002 (5-6) 2003 (12-2 lost national title game). I agree the Alerus needs a fun environment. I was there for the Potato Bowl game. The parade was fun downtown (kids loved it!) and the tailgating at game looked great a lot of businesses giving away free food and it was fun. Does anyone think maybe the lack of the campus atmosphere has something to do with attendance? Location of the Alerus compared to Memorial Stadium. At least the Fargodome is near the NDSU campus, the Alerus is in the middle of nothing.

[WYOBISONMAN]

The last time UND had back to back losses was 1985-86. That was the last season for Pat Behrns and the beginning of the Roger Thomas era. So historically UND bounces back from a losing season. 2002 (5-6) 2003 (12-2 lost national title game). I agree the Alerus needs a fun environment. I was there for the Potato Bowl game. The parade was fun downtown (kids loved it!) and the tailgating at game looked great a lot of businesses giving away free food and it was fun. Does anyone think maybe the lack of the campus atmosphere has something to do with attendance? Location of the Alerus compared to Memorial Stadium. At least the Fargodome is near the NDSU campus, the Alerus is in the middle of nothing.

Some of the students say the Fagodome is a long ways from campus..... At either place....a poor excuse not to show up. Things can be done to create a campus environment. Simple stuff....like having the band wander throught the tailgate playing stuff like "In heaven there is no beer".

[darell1976]

Some of the students say the Fagodome is a long ways from campus..... At either place....a poor excuse not to show up. Things can be done to create a campus environment. Simple stuff....like having the band wander throught the tailgate playing stuff like "In heaven there is no beer".

Really a long way from campus?? Its on 19th Ave. not Harwood. The band in the parking lot is a good idea also the Alerus is NOT UND friendly. Maybe the nickname has something to do with it but the only UND I see on it is the helmet on the outside the banners and Fighting Sioux in the endzone on the inside. How about painting it green and white, or having a big UND helmet on the outside where people walk through to get in. The Ralph is a lot more UND than the Alerus in many ways.

[82SiouxGuy]

Really a long way from campus?? Its on 19th Ave. not Harwood. The band in the parking lot is a good idea also the Alerus is NOT UND friendly. Maybe the nickname has something to do with it but the only UND I see on it is the helmet on the outside the banners and Fighting Sioux in the endzone on the inside. How about painting it green and white, or having a big UND helmet on the outside where people walk through to get in. The Ralph is a lot more UND than the Alerus in many ways.

The Ralph was built to house UND hockey and other sports. It's main purpose is to support UND Athletics. That's why it is dominated by UND symbols and signs. The Alerus Center is owned by the city. It is used more than 300 days a year with hundreds of events taking place within the building. 5 or 6 of those are UND football games, plus UND uses it for some other events throughout the year. It will never be dominated by UND signage like the Ralph. They did add signage inside and outside. They have all of the banners hanging over the field. They have done a lot to make it more of a home field. But it is ridiculous to expect them to make the Alerus Center anything like the Ralph.

[coach daddy]

Which travel partner will be better, SCSU in the Summit with NDSU or U of Mary in the Big Sky with UND after the Big Sky again expands in a panic when U of Montana and Montana State announce they are leaving for an FBS conference?

Looks like someone was wrong...........................again

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/183039/group/homepage/

[darell1976]

The Ralph was built to house UND hockey and other sports. It's main purpose is to support UND Athletics. That's why it is dominated by UND symbols and signs. The Alerus Center is owned by the city. It is used more than 300 days a year with hundreds of events taking place within the building. 5 or 6 of those are UND football games, plus UND uses it for some other events throughout the year. It will never be dominated by UND signage like the Ralph. They did add signage inside and outside. They have all of the banners hanging over the field. They have done a lot to make it more of a home field. But it is ridiculous to expect them to make the Alerus Center anything like the Ralph.

What is the real money maker is it really concerts?? I doubt it. Its football. They need to UND up the Alerus more than they have done. Or move back to Memorial Stadium.

[fightingsioux4life]

Apparently the kid from Kansas that just verballed to NDSU hadn't heard UND is in the Big Sky now and is King of the FCS.

You can think all you want that recruits in the traditional core recruiting areas for both NDSU and UND(ND, Minn, Wisc, Nebraska, Texas etc.) thing playing N. Ariz, E. Wash, Sac State, UC Davis, Idaho State, Portland St et al. is so much better than playing Illinois State, Youngstown State, UNI, SIU, et al. I don't buy it. I guess time will tell.

I'm not buying the statewide support thing either, but there are more people in Cass and Clay counties than in the whole western half of North Dakota.

This is the biggest reason why people are anti-Fargo and anti-Cass County. This whole, arrogant "Imperial Cass County" attitude of "The whole rest of the state can go down the tubes as long as Fargo and Cass County are rich and prosperous". You obviously don't understand the long-term impact of the oil boom in the West (it's not going to go away this time) and how it will change the economic, cultural and political dynamics of the state. But since some people in Fargo think of themselves as a state all by themselves, I am not surprised by your smart-mouthed comment. This attitude will probably hurt Fargo's effort for long-term flood protection and that is a shame. They are as deserving of flood protection as anyone else in the Red River basin.

The bottom line is the move to the BSC will help UND long-term in athletics and in enrollment stability and growth.

[82SiouxGuy]

What is the real money maker is it really concerts?? I doubt it. Its football. They need to UND up the Alerus more than they have done. Or move back to Memorial Stadium.

Conventions bring in more money than football. There is a lot more to the Alerus Center than the arena part of the building. Football has a higher profit margin (they probably make more money for a single day). But it is only 5 or 6 games per year, plus some practice days if the weather is bad. They do more than 5 or 6 days of trade shows in a year. Conventions and other events bring in a lot more money throughout the year. And we already discussed moving back to Memorial, it is a bad idea that has no chance of happening. The only way UND moves out of the Alerus Center in the next couple of decades is if a new stadium ever gets built.

[VMeister]

Posting on the WYO boards is a bit dull because there isn't another in-state school to argue with......

So you can win almost half the arguments there?

[nd1sufan]

This is the biggest reason why people are anti-Fargo and anti-Cass County. This whole, arrogant "Imperial Cass County" attitude of "The whole rest of the state can go down the tubes as long as Fargo and Cass County are rich and prosperous". You obviously don't understand the long-term impact of the oil boom in the West (it's not going to go away this time) and how it will change the economic, cultural and political dynamics of the state. But since some people in Fargo think of themselves as a state all by themselves, I am not surprised by your smart-mouthed comment. This attitude will probably hurt Fargo's effort for long-term flood protection and that is a shame. They are as deserving of flood protection as anyone else in the Red River basin.

The bottom line is the move to the BSC will help UND long-term in athletics and in enrollment stability and growth.

Wow, took longer for the "Imperial Cass County" remark than I thought. My point is if you are expecting people to drive 4 to 6 hours to fill up a stadium for football or basketball games its not a good situation.

Also, most serious sports fans in this state already have loyalties to one school or the other, and I don't think which conference either is in will change those loyalties.

[82SiouxGuy]

Wow, took longer for the "Imperial Cass County" remark than I thought. My point is if you are expecting people to drive 4 to 6 hours to fill up a stadium for football or basketball games its not a good situation.

Also, most serious sports fans in this state already have loyalties to one school or the other, and I don't think which conference either is in will change those loyalties.

People drive 4 to 6 hours to fill up a local hockey arena many times each year. And I'm pretty sure that a lot of people drive 4 to 6 hours to the Fargodome for games.

[fightingsioux4life]

Wow, took longer for the "Imperial Cass County" remark than I thought. My point is if you are expecting people to drive 4 to 6 hours to fill up a stadium for football or basketball games its not a good situation.

Also, most serious sports fans in this state already have loyalties to one school or the other, and I don't think which conference either is in will change those loyalties.

People might not drive 4 to 6 hours to watch a game live on a regular basis, but they will tune in on TV and radio and become fans. They also will make the occasional trip to watch a game live (either in Grand Forks or a close road game). And you are underestimating the potential for new fans that have not been engaged in Sioux sports before, but might become fans through increased media coverage and interest with the BSC move. This is long-range thinking and planning and I am glad our administration understands the concept.

I just think you are underestimating the impact of the oil boom on the state. Bismarck will see increased growth, Minot will grow instead of stagnating or declining and towns that were slowly dying (Williston) will see growth they couldn't have imagined just 10 years ago. That will shift at least some political and economic power from the east to the west. And as an easterner, I really don't have a problem with that.

[nd1sufan]

People drive 4 to 6 hours to fill up a local hockey arena many times each year. And I'm pretty sure that a lot of people drive 4 to 6 hours to the Fargodome for games.

Maybe 1,000 or 2,000, but the vast majority come from less than an hour radius.

[82SiouxGuy]

Maybe 1,000 or 2,000, but the vast majority come from less than an hour radius.

Minot is 3 hours. Bismarck is 4 hours. The majority of the population of North Dakota is within 4 hours of Grand Forks. Minneapolis-St. Paul is less than 6 hours, even to the extreme SE corner. A lot of UND alums live in the Minneapolis area. There may be more than 4,000,000 people living within a 6 hour radius. There are plenty of people to fill the arenas if they get a product they want to see.

Did you get enough attention as a child? You seem to be on this board quite a bit looking for attention.

[nd1sufan]

Minot is 3 hours. Bismarck is 4 hours. The majority of the population of North Dakota is within 4 hours of Grand Forks. Minneapolis-St. Paul is less than 6 hours, even to the extreme SE corner. A lot of UND alums live in the Minneapolis area. There may be more than 4,000,000 people living within a 6 hour radius. There are plenty of people to fill the arenas if they get a product they want to see.

Did you get enough attention as a child? You seem to be on this board quite a bit looking for attention.

The "product" isn't going to magically improve because UND is in the Big Sky. Believe it or not, there are bad teams in the Big Sky with poor attendance.

[Shawn-O]

The "product" isn't going to magically improve because UND is in the Big Sky. Believe it or not, there are bad teams in the Big Sky with poor attendance.

The "product" has gotten quite stale in Fargo. No home playoff games since in what, two decades? But here comes the chest pounding with an outside shot at 8-3. Oh, how the "mighty" have fallen.

[82SiouxGuy]

The "product" isn't going to magically improve because UND is in the Big Sky. Believe it or not, there are bad teams in the Big Sky with poor attendance.

Being in a conference with an AQ will make UND more appealing to athletes. Better athletes often leads to better teams. Better teams give a better performance. So there is at least an outside chance that just the fact that UND is joining the Big Sky will create a better product on the court/field. Most of those Big Sky schools that have poor attendance and weak athletic programs are less well-funded and in even less desireable places than UND and Grand Forks. The Big Sky isn't a guarantee that performance or attendance will improve, but it provides a great opportunity for both. And like Shawn said, there's even a chance that NDSU can make the playoffs.

[Cratter]

I would argue the baseline has changed further up the axis. Think of it this way: I wouldn't accept a "self correction" of hockey attendance to the pre Ralph levels, and nor do I for football.

And along those same lines I would say. Nobody should be surprised when UND hockey attendance drops:

Hockey attendance can't increase (obviously cause its near the top of capacity).

The Sioux will no longer be in a conference with Minnesota and Wisconsin. (Let's be honest hockey is king cause it was the only Division I sport and it was in a conference with Big Ten schools. This will no longer be the case)

Combine that with a couple losing season and the Ralph Engelstad Arena continuing to get older.... I would easily see UND averaging 7000-9000 or less.

You heard it hear first.

I wouldn't "accept a self correction" for UND football either if UND football moved into a state-of-the-art stadium that the entire country is envious of with over twice the capacity of the old arena (meaning the new capacity would be over 20,000), but that's simply not the case with UND football.

[4mcrue]

The "product" has gotten quite stale in Fargo. No home playoff games since in what, two decades? But here comes the chest pounding with an outside shot at 8-3. Oh, how the "mighty" have fallen.

"How the mighty have fallen"? UND football is a complete nobody in FCS. I think we have had our ups and downs, but we are doing just fine, UND on the other hand, is embarrasing. "How the might have fallen"? You were bragging about that 2001 win, and all those GVSU games, looks like you have "fallen".