SiouxVolley Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 So Dickinson wants to build a 1600 student HS. https://www.thedickinsonpress.com/news/education/4577202-one-size-doesnt-fit-all-why-new-dhs-could-be-bigger-its-eastern-counterparts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux>Bison Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 35 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said: North Dakota has a geography problem, and that makes the transportation costs more expensive. Badlands NGL was formed because they envisioned a cracker plant could over come these limitations. Rather listen to them then your baloney. https://www.constructionboxscore.com/project-news/badlands-ngl-to-build-new-north-dakota-ethane-cracker,-pe-complex.aspx The choices are, build an ethane pipeline to Houston or Pittsburgh costing billions, enlarge the existing NGL mixed pipelines, which would all go out of state to places like Conway, Kansas where they are processed and sent further South or come back north on propane pipelines and would overwhelm the propane and higher NGLs with much lower value, expand the ethane line to Alberta, or spend billions in the state and make higher end products here or nearby. Most of the ethane is being exported now as lower quality methane which wastes billions in value. ND has to move up on the food chain, but it would require billions, which the state has. Chinese or Korean companies can easily just make the Poly fluff here and export it by unit train rr with some going to nearby users. OneOk has plans to put in de-ethanizers in its ng plants, but they don’t have capacity or a customer to deal with the ethane flows yet. Alberta and the Marcellus/Utica basin (Pittsburgh and Ohio Valley) had to start from scratch, so it is not impossible. So you are telling me it’s cheaper to ship finished product via rail and ship to Asia than it is to ship the ethane via pipeline to existing petrochemical hubs in the USA and Canada. There is a reason this ethane cracker hasn’t been built in ND. While we all would like to see this plant built in ND this is far from reality and the state will not and should not spend billions to fund this project. new refineries do not make sense in ND because there is no incremental demand anymore for more fuels. A new fertilizer plant in ND make sense because of abundant and cheap natural gas with the final product being in need within the immediate region. There is not enough plastic demand close enough to ND to make this ethane plant feasible. If it was such a great idea it would already be funded and built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux>Bison Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 10 hours ago, The Sicatoka said: Going back to what I said in the GF Economy thread, that's a mistake: Quit shipping out raw resources; do the value added manufacturing here (make that money too) and ship out that product. I agree too but it just needs to make economical sense or we will not see the investment. The urea fertilizer plant idea was genius except there is only room in the state for one or maybe 2 of them. New refineries in the state will be a bust just like the MDU funded one by Dickinson. It takes solid economics to make these opportunities a long lasting endeavor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Ethane is converted to ethylene and then goes into chemicals or plastics. A huge value is being wasted here and the state has a massive treasury that can help (not totally fund) an initial cracker plant. Companies were hesistant to build a plant as the bakken shale oil was not set in stone for its future and the ethane prices were down substantially while the Saudis tried to disrupt shale oil. An ethane pipeline can be built, but that too would cost billions and meet protests. ND can actually add value here to its own products. Poly fluff wouldn't have the opposition that a pipeline would. If cracker plants were great ideas for the Pittsburgh area, they already would be operating says no one but you. It takes years to consider, plan, and build, not weeks as you seem to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said: I agree too but it just needs to make economical sense or we will not see the investment. The urea fertilizer plant idea was genius except there is only room in the state for one or maybe 2 of them. New refineries in the state will be a bust just like the MDU funded one by Dickinson. It takes solid economics to make these opportunities a long lasting endeavor. Calumet lost a fortune on the Dickinson plant because they expanded haphazardly. The new owner is an actual refinery company and will run it more efficiently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoyalSioux Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 And all of this discussion relates to Sioux Sports how? Is one of the oil companies going to send oil to heat the The Ralph ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planet2county Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 http://badlandsngls.com/ http://www.nytimes.com/1991/11/15/business/company-news-rexene-awash-in-debts-turns-up-as-golf-sponsor.html http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1617146/000161714614000001/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux>Bison Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 15 hours ago, SiouxVolley said: Calumet lost a fortune on the Dickinson plant because they expanded haphazardly. The new owner is an actual refinery company and will run it more efficiently. The Dickinson plant failed because it could not compete with the lower price producers once the increased demand for diesel ceased in ND. Without the oil boom there was no need for more fuel in ND with all the other suppliers. Tesoro bought the it and it could not make any profit so now they are retrofitting it to process vegetable oils into biofuels. The demand in CA for biofuels is skyrocketing due to new regulation requirements. Sounds like little modifications will be need to get the plant ready to process veg oils. Once again you don’t know what you are talking about just like these big sky to FBS threads. I’d quit while your ahead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 18 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said: The Dickinson plant failed because it could not compete with the lower price producers once the increased demand for diesel ceased in ND. Without the oil boom there was no need for more fuel in ND with all the other suppliers. Tesoro bought the it and it could not make any profit so now they are retrofitting it to process vegetable oils into biofuels. The demand in CA for biofuels is skyrocketing due to new regulation requirements. Sounds like little modifications will be need to get the plant ready to process veg oils. Once again you don’t know what you are talking about just like these big sky to FBS threads. I’d quit while your ahead. You didn't know that Calumet was the original owner. Too much baloney on your tongue. Montana and Idaho are moving to the Summit. Some people just can't do patience and you are one of several. Alberta is the new location for Canada’s first propylene dehydration facility from propane. Propylene is also a plastic precursor, and with the polyethylene plants already there, will be shortly (two years from now), a plastic superpower. Diapers are now made entirely of plastics. The plastic industry goes where their are cheap raw materials. That’s why Pittsburgh is so elated, as the run on jobs will be much much greater than the cracker jobs themselves. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/notley-speak-energy-industry-inter-pipelines-petrochemical-1.4973030 Pembina Pipeline, Inter Pipeline and Kuwait Chemicals will be the developers for that multi billion $ facility. US companies like OneOK, Targa Resources, Phillips Refining and Marathon Refining are much more capable, and they all have facilities in the Bakken. If Alberta can become a plastic center with their horrible geography, what’s stopping North Dakota which is much more central. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 In addition to raw materials, businesses like to locate where they can hire people. Finding people to work is difficult in North Dakota, particularly western ND. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, UNDBIZ said: In addition to raw materials, businesses like to locate where they can hire people. Finding people to work is difficult in North Dakota, particularly western ND. https://www.meridianenergygroupinc.com/the-davis-refinery/ Guess Meridian Refining is making a big blunder locating in remote Billings County with their new refinery then. You should inform them of their blunder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 https://www.willistonherald.com/news/things-to-know-about-the-million-plan-to-build-new/article_3b5be75c-3ad7-11e9-b038-0f949be80c81.html The $89 million plan to build new schools in the rural Williston District 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said: https://www.meridianenergygroupinc.com/the-davis-refinery/ Guess Meridian Refining is making a big blunder locating in remote Billings County with their new refinery then. You should inform them of their blunder. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux>Bison Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 5 hours ago, SiouxVolley said: https://www.meridianenergygroupinc.com/the-davis-refinery/ Guess Meridian Refining is making a big blunder locating in remote Billings County with their new refinery then. You should inform them of their blunder. That refinery will be a flop. Just another investment for investors to lose their shorts on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux>Bison Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 7 hours ago, SiouxVolley said: You didn't know that Calumet was the original owner. Too much baloney on your tongue. Montana and Idaho are moving to the Summit. Some people just can't do patience and you are one of several. Alberta is the new location for Canada’s first propylene dehydration facility from propane. Propylene is also a plastic precursor, and with the polyethylene plants already there, will be shortly (two years from now), a plastic superpower. Diapers are now made entirely of plastics. The plastic industry goes where their are cheap raw materials. That’s why Pittsburgh is so elated, as the run on jobs will be much much greater than the cracker jobs themselves. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/notley-speak-energy-industry-inter-pipelines-petrochemical-1.4973030 Pembina Pipeline, Inter Pipeline and Kuwait Chemicals will be the developers for that multi billion $ facility. US companies like OneOK, Targa Resources, Phillips Refining and Marathon Refining are much more capable, and they all have facilities in the Bakken. If Alberta can become a plastic center with their horrible geography, what’s stopping North Dakota which is much more central. Are you serious, it’s like you are trying to prove my point that you have no ideas what you are talking about? You are wrong to say that Calumet was the original owner as it was built by MDU and Calumet 50/50. are you seriously trying to compare Edmonton to Williston???? Edmonton is the oil and gas center of Alberta with huge existing industries. They have no worse geography for producing plastics and I would argue that it is an exponentially better place to build a plastics hub. Only some random one off company is trying to sell this idea of a ethane plant in ND. You actually have the big players in the game getting involved in the plants in Edmonton. Just because Marathon and Phillips 66 are present in ND is no reason for them to build a one off plant in ND. They are focused on buying crude in ND to ship it to their existing refineries across the country. They have no interest in building a plastics plant in ND. Oneok and Targa are midstream companies that mainly transport the oil and gas produced in ND. They don’t own the products they transport and simply are paid to move/process producers oil and gas. They would have zero stake in an ethane plastic plant other than providing the plant with ethane. It’s no different than a pipeline supplying oil to a refinery. i think you should leave this discussion to people who actually know what they are talking about. You are adding no value to this conversation. Maybe you should stick to ludicrous topics such as Montana and Idaho moving to the summit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux>Bison Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 7 hours ago, UNDBIZ said: In addition to raw materials, businesses like to locate where they can hire people. Finding people to work is difficult in North Dakota, particularly western ND. This is also a big reason we would not see a plastics manufacturing boom in ND. Finding people with expertise to move to the heart of the Bakken is a huge hurdle for this kind of development. We have seen it in the oil field right now where people from down south have all kinds of local options to stay in Texas especially with the boom in the Permian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 17 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said: Are you serious, it’s like you are trying to prove my point that you have no ideas what you are talking about? You are wrong to say that Calumet was the original owner as it was built by MDU and Calumet 50/50. are you seriously trying to compare Edmonton to Williston???? Edmonton is the oil and gas center of Alberta with huge existing industries. They have no worse geography for producing plastics and I would argue that it is an exponentially better place to build a plastics hub. Only some random one off company is trying to sell this idea of a ethane plant in ND. You actually have the big players in the game getting involved in the plants in Edmonton. Just because Marathon and Phillips 66 are present in ND is no reason for them to build a one off plant in ND. They are focused on buying crude in ND to ship it to their existing refineries across the country. They have no interest in building a plastics plant in ND. Oneok and Targa are midstream companies that mainly transport the oil and gas produced in ND. They don’t own the products they transport and simply are paid to move/process producers oil and gas. They would have zero stake in an ethane plastic plant other than providing the plant with ethane. It’s no different than a pipeline supplying oil to a refinery. i think you should leave this discussion to people who actually know what they are talking about. You are adding no value to this conversation. Maybe you should stick to ludicrous topics such as Montana and Idaho moving to the summit! You are so far over your head as strategic planning does not run in your veins. Edmonton has grown tremendously because of the chemical industry, not because a large metropolis existed there before. The city was under a 100k before WWII. The Badlands NGL owner and former chemical head, regardless of his integrity, has invested his time and presumably his money because he sees an opportunity from the Bakken that you can't see or even ponder. Simple as that. Ethane in ND is a wasted resource that now is at a critical mass for use as in cracker and the resource will be there for generations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbone Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 I’ll admit.....I don’t know sh*t about the oil industry. Or the Summit league. Or.....plastics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 On 2/27/2019 at 11:54 PM, LoyalSioux said: And all of this discussion relates to Sioux Sports how? Is one of the oil companies going to send oil to heat the The Ralph ? Friend, you're in the Community forum. This affects the UND community and is fair game for discussion. If it interests you not, may I suggest a different forum on the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodak78 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 17 hours ago, UNDBIZ said: In addition to raw materials, businesses like to locate where they can hire people. Finding people to work is difficult in North Dakota, particularly western ND. This is a challenge. WSC and Mary U and BSC are all developing education to work in the industry. This will not change over night. It will take time to increase the workforce. It is happening and many graduating in local HS will find very nice paying jobs in the industry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kab Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Good paying jobs will attract employees in spite and of the weather i guess it depends what you consider good paying it is expensive to live in williston and with new schools comes higher taxes williston can grow north and west but south is the river, watford city is the next best option to grow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodak78 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 It is more reasonable now than 4 years ago to live in Williston. Both Williston and Watford will be on growth spurts. When the airport is moved more housing and businesses will fill the void of the old airport. The Bond issue vote in April will need to pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 49 minutes ago, Nodak78 said: This is a challenge. WSC and Mary U and BSC are all developing education to work in the industry. This will not change over night. It will take time to increase the workforce. It is happening and many graduating in local HS will find very nice paying jobs in the industry. Not many places in this country where a HS degree and the willingness to work hard can land you six figures a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodak78 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Oxbow6 said: Not many places in this country where a HS degree and the willingness to work hard can land you six figures a year. very true. Sure beats a womans study degree or history major degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 The Dickinson refinery with MDU as a part owner was doomed to failure because MDU knows nothing about competing with firms that are adept at competing. MDU had Bakken mineral rights and effectively sold them off for a pittance because their management is so used to government oversight and their not trained in the free market like most refining and oil companies companies. Owning any refining or any non utility with MDU is like having an anchor tied to a sailing ship that must maneuver fast. MDU studies actions but rarely takes them quickly with confidence.. Most firms that compete in the Bakken are renown for reacting quickly, which is the opposite of MDU’s executive actions. The new Meridian Refinery near Belfield just signed with a Midstream company to help manage logistics. https://www.willistonherald.com/news/meridian-acquires-midstream-partner-for-davis-refinery-in-north-dakota/article_8d83bef6-3c03-11e9-9cae-abb809b47f94.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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