Big A HG Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 ...and that's exactly the point. How many goals do people want scored? Other teams have no problems scoring 6-7 goals regularly. The only reason this is being brought up is because we have a team who isn't scoring goals, so y'all are blaming the system. The system works, the team isn't. How 'bout this...when you score a goal you get 6 points. Then, the goal scorer gets the opportunity for a shootout-style goal for an extra point. The, scores can be in the 30s-40s and everyone is happy because there's "tons of points" just like the NFL (face it, the NFL doesn't score much more than hockey if you make TD's count as 1 pt and take away FG's which are dumb anyways). If it isn't Brian Lee, it's Joe Finley. If it isn't Joe Finley, it's Coach Hakstol. If it isn't Hak it's the goalie's pads. When does the whining end around here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yzerman19 Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 How many goals do people want scored? Other teams have no problems scoring 6-7 goals regularly. The only reason this is being brought up is because we have a team who isn't scoring goals, so y'all are blaming the system. The system works, the team isn't. How 'bout this...when you score a goal you get 6 points. Then, the goal scorer gets the opportunity for a shootout-style goal for an extra point. The, scores can be in the 30s-40s and everyone is happy because there's "tons of points" just like the NFL (face it, the NFL doesn't score much more than hockey if you make TD's count as 1 pt and take away FG's which are dumb anyways). If it isn't Brian Lee, it's Joe Finley. If it isn't Joe Finley, it's Coach Hakstol. If it isn't Hak it's the goalie's pads. When does the whining end around here? I guess its easier to blame one thing rather than accept just getting beat because someone else is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianvf Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 If it isn't Brian Lee, it's Joe Finley. If it isn't Joe Finley, it's Coach Hakstol. If it isn't Hak it's the goalie's pads. When does the whining end around here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 How many goals do people want scored? Other teams have no problems scoring 6-7 goals regularly. The only reason this is being brought up is because we have a team who isn't scoring goals, so y'all are blaming the system. The system works, the team isn't. How 'bout this...when you score a goal you get 6 points. Then, the goal scorer gets the opportunity for a shootout-style goal for an extra point. The, scores can be in the 30s-40s and everyone is happy because there's "tons of points" just like the NFL (face it, the NFL doesn't score much more than hockey if you make TD's count as 1 pt and take away FG's which are dumb anyways). If it isn't Brian Lee, it's Joe Finley. If it isn't Joe Finley, it's Coach Hakstol. If it isn't Hak it's the goalie's pads. When does the whining end around here? Who are these teams that are scoring 6-7 goals regularly? According to USCHO, these are the scoring averages for the WCHA this season overall and in conference: Wisconsin 3.88 3.75 Colorado College 3.38 3.41 Duluth 3.34 3.38 St. Cloud 3.17 3.24 Denver 3.15 2.95 North Dakota 2.86 2.70 Minnesota 2.79 2.85 Minnesota State 2.68 2.45 Alaska Anchorage 2.48 2.39 Michigan Tech 2.11 2.14 That means if a team is scoring 6-7 goals regularly, they are being shut out just as regularly. Goal scoring is down significantly across the league and across college hockey during the past decade or 2. The system isn't working the way it used to and it is causing a problem with fans liking the game so they might want to work on fixing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Who are these teams that are scoring 6-7 goals regularly? According to USCHO, these are the scoring averages for the WCHA this season overall and in conference: Wisconsin 3.88 3.75 Colorado College 3.38 3.41 Duluth 3.34 3.38 St. Cloud 3.17 3.24 Denver 3.15 2.95 North Dakota 2.86 2.70 Minnesota 2.79 2.85 Minnesota State 2.68 2.45 Alaska Anchorage 2.48 2.39 Michigan Tech 2.11 2.14 That means if a team is scoring 6-7 goals regularly, they are being shut out just as regularly. Goal scoring is down significantly across the league and across college hockey during the past decade or 2. The system isn't working the way it used to and it is causing a problem with fans liking the game so they might want to work on fixing it. I do think if college hockey called the game like the NHL it would open up the game a lot. I watch a lot of NHL hockey and what's allowed in College wouldn't go in the pros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 I do think if college hockey called the game like the NHL it would open up the game a lot. I watch a lot of NHL hockey and what's allowed in College wouldn't go in the pros. I agree with you about calling the penalties like clutching, grabbing, obstruction, etc. I also like the idea some people mentioned about smaller goalie pads. Both ideas would allow more scoring without making fundamental changes to the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big A HG Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 I do think if college hockey called the game like the NHL it would open up the game a lot. I watch a lot of NHL hockey and what's allowed in College wouldn't go in the pros. This is one thing I CAN agree with. I'm not a daily ref-basher around here, and as inconsistent as the WCHA refs are, throughout the course of a season everyone gets their breaks and their bad luck. However, the fact that they continually allow what you describe, Goon, is the problem. Even if they call it very fairly in terms of what they call a penalty and what they don't, it still makes things tougher for the guys with a lot more skill. However, with that said, you still don't see Mankato's, and UAA's winning the conference title. You still see the best teams regularly fighting for that position. About the goals beind down...yes, the goals are down. But, how much of that is the way teams recruit in the WCHA now-days thanks to the reffing issues? I'm not saying no one recruits top-tier players, but many teams, including the bottom-halfers of the league recruit the grinders that will wear down the better teams in hopes of keeping it close and having a better chance at winning. Look at the way UND recruits, it's a mix of offensive and defensive-minded forwards, not just all skill guys. I think if the league reffing changed for the better, you'd see goals go up again. Also, I probably should have stated that teams score 5-6 goals regularly instead of 6-7, but that's my mistake. With Saturday and Sunday's games left, there were already 5 teams to score 6 or more goals in the country, and 13 teams to score 5 or more goals. Those guys can score with the same pads that we can't score on. The term "reguarly" can be interpreted differently between each individual who reads what I wrote, but what I mean is that many teams can score a decent amount of goals enough to not consider them a rarity. If a team plays 5 games, and they score 1 goal one game, 3 goals in two of those games, 4 goals one, and 5 goals another, that's a good amount of goals that averages out to be 3.2 goals/game, which would only be 5th best in conference (all games considered). If UND averaged 3.2 goals/game, we'd have a very different standing in the WCHA and the NCAA (PWR). The pads aren't the problem, it's the skill level...whether it's bad offensive skill for us, or great defensive and goaltending skill from our opponents, or a combination of both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 How many goals do people want scored? Other teams have no problems scoring 6-7 goals regularly. The only reason this is being brought up is because we have a team who isn't scoring goals, so y'all are blaming the system. The system works, the team isn't. How 'bout this...when you score a goal you get 6 points. Then, the goal scorer gets the opportunity for a shootout-style goal for an extra point. The, scores can be in the 30s-40s and everyone is happy because there's "tons of points" just like the NFL (face it, the NFL doesn't score much more than hockey if you make TD's count as 1 pt and take away FG's which are dumb anyways). If it isn't Brian Lee, it's Joe Finley. If it isn't Joe Finley, it's Coach Hakstol. If it isn't Hak it's the goalie's pads. When does the whining end around here? Not sure anyone was suggesting if the goalie pads were smaller the Sioux would win more games. Seems to me this tangent came up in the perspective of goals scored 20 years ago vs. goals scored today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 This is one thing I CAN agree with. I'm not a daily ref-basher around here, and as inconsistent as the WCHA refs are, throughout the course of a season everyone gets their breaks and their bad luck. However, the fact that they continually allow what you describe, Goon, is the problem. Even if they call it very fairly in terms of what they call a penalty and what they don't, it still makes things tougher for the guys with a lot more skill. However, with that said, you still don't see Mankato's, and UAA's winning the conference title. You still see the best teams regularly fighting for that position. About the goals beind down...yes, the goals are down. But, how much of that is the way teams recruit in the WCHA now-days thanks to the reffing issues? I'm not saying no one recruits top-tier players, but many teams, including the bottom-halfers of the league recruit the grinders that will wear down the better teams in hopes of keeping it close and having a better chance at winning. Look at the way UND recruits, it's a mix of offensive and defensive-minded forwards, not just all skill guys. I think if the league reffing changed for the better, you'd see goals go up again. Also, I probably should have stated that teams score 5-6 goals regularly instead of 6-7, but that's my mistake. With Saturday and Sunday's games left, there were already 5 teams to score 6 or more goals in the country, and 13 teams to score 5 or more goals. Those guys can score with the same pads that we can't score on. The term "reguarly" can be interpreted differently between each individual who reads what I wrote, but what I mean is that many teams can score a decent amount of goals enough to not consider them a rarity. If a team plays 5 games, and they score 1 goal one game, 3 goals in two of those games, 4 goals one, and 5 goals another, that's a good amount of goals that averages out to be 3.2 goals/game, which would only be 5th best in conference (all games considered). If UND averaged 3.2 goals/game, we'd have a very different standing in the WCHA and the NCAA (PWR). The pads aren't the problem, it's the skill level...whether it's bad offensive skill for us, or great defensive and goaltending skill from our opponents, or a combination of both. You just have to watch the World Juniors every year to see the difference between how those games are called and WCHA games. World Juniors games much more open and skill players are allowed to do their thing. Guys like Danny Kristo have room to maneuver, use their abilities and score goals. Those same players come back to the WCHA and aren't nearly as prolific. So changing the way games are called would have an immediate effect on scoring in the league. The ability to recruit more highly skilled players would be a possible additional benefit. Even in your new scenario regularly is probably the wrong word. One night is a bad sample size. I'm pretty sure that 1/3 of the teams don't score 5 or 6 goals most nights. And scoring 5 goals in a game 1 out of 5 games played is not regular to me. Unless you mean that every 5th game they are going to score 5 goals. The difference between scoring now and scoring 20 years ago is that 5 or 6 goals (your new standard) used to be pretty regular with a lot of teams scoring 6 to 8 goals on occasion, while 5 to 6 goals is now considered a pretty high goal total. Pads are just a part of the problem. The lack of scoring results from a combination of several factors. Among those factors are the defensive style being played by many teams, skill level of the defensive players, the way the games are being called by referees, butterfly style goalies, skill level and better training of goalies, the size of the pads, and probably others. You are going to have a hard time forcing teams away from the defensive style of play. You can't force teams to take less skilled defensive players or goalies. You aren't going to force goalies to play a stand up style. The easiest things to change from this list are to decrease pad size and to change the way the game is reffed. Both of these changes would benefit the teams with more skill at those positions and would increase scoring to some degree. It won't get scoring back to the level of 20 years ago, but it could increase it at least 1/2 a goal per team. The other option to increase scoring would be to make a more fundamental change to the game like increasing the size of the goal as someone suggested. None of this would probably help UND win more games this year, but it would make the fans happy by increasing scoring a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 My opinion is still the same and I've said it over countless threads: Finishing has been our problem. Chances have been there. Offensive strategies by our coaches (as much as several here would wish to deny it) has placed our players in good position to make em pay, but we haven't. I can say finishing overall despite the fact that our powerplay is still atrocious because it's the same on the power play. Teams with incredible power plays are a double threat because they could beat you 5 on 5 AND 5 on 4. Right now, teams don't have to worry about us if they go down a man. This means they can play more physical or, thanks to officiating, bring back clutch and grab without worry. If the officials actually do call them according to the rule book (instead of just us... fancy that. We have to play by the rules but they don't), they don't have to worry because, though we might be able to put on some pressure, we don't have the finishing. We've heard the other excuses "hot goaltender," "lucky bounces," WCHA officiating... well, appart from the last one, it doesn't exist. Sure, we've seen goaltenders stand on their heads against us, but it's not why we lost. Cheverie in the Friday game made all the saves he should have made and got lucky on the rest. That's it. As for bounces, that's bull. You make your own luck on the ice. WCHA officiating is a problem but even with that crap they call it, we still were in positions to win both nights. So... it's back to finishing. And I'll tell you this much: Hextall and Genoway isn't going to help VV and crew finish even if they do. And if they come back and do start finishing, though it will help the team when they score, relying upon them for it entirely will be disasterous. Oh and don't include Knight on the list. This is a guy that was almost derided as much as Cichy is now earlier this season. He can't just suddenly be a key. For those of you who saw him as a FRESHMAN and view the season as a whole rather than the usual "What has he done for us lately" nonsense, yeah, he is a key as he has been improving every game, much like Fienhage. Oh, and since I'm a homer already, Cichy will be JUST FINE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Who are these teams that are scoring 6-7 goals regularly? According to USCHO, these are the scoring averages for the WCHA this season overall and in conference: Wisconsin 3.88 3.75 Colorado College 3.38 3.41 Duluth 3.34 3.38 St. Cloud 3.17 3.24 Denver 3.15 2.95 North Dakota 2.86 2.70 Minnesota 2.79 2.85 Minnesota State 2.68 2.45 Alaska Anchorage 2.48 2.39 Michigan Tech 2.11 2.14 Tony Hrkac went 46-70-116 in 48 games in 1986-87. That's 2.42 points per game or 2.42 goals per game just Tony contributed to (to get a point someone had to score a goal). Tony (2.42) outscored today's Michigan Tech (2.11) and he's darn close to doing it to UAA (2.48). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yzerman19 Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 no changing the net, no new mandates on equipment, no changing goals to count as touchdowns. One answer, pure and simple: gotta call it like the WJC or NHL. I also think they should give penalty shots more frequently. There is no such thing as a two step rule. Id make it so if you pull a guy down or interfere on a guy with a clean look, it could be a penalty shot. Lastly, you could ban the neutral zone trap and/or clogging the middle. Establish a bench minor penalty for illegal defense. I disagree with some of the support of the cycle and overall x and o strategy not being at fault. These guys can shoot the puck. The epic failure of our pp is on the coaching staff. That bring said, I agree with the statement that we aren't finishing. Don't know how an entire team forgets how to pick a corner or make the goalie move laterally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 My opinion is still the same and I've said it over countless threads: We've heard the other excuses "hot goaltender," "lucky bounces," WCHA officiating... WCHA Officiating...another oxymoron like Jumbo Shrimp, military intelligence, rap music, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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