Riverman Posted October 13, 2003 Posted October 13, 2003 See news paper--> The Brookings Register (online edition) By John Andrews Could someone please link the article.I am a newbie at this.. The best quote she said: "Whether the elders were speaking for all Lakota Dakota in the state is doubtful" Ironic that she should "speak" for all the Eric Enno's and "Sioux"supporters of the nickname. just my .02's worth Quote
flatspin7 Posted October 13, 2003 Posted October 13, 2003 -----I am going to warn you in advance I may get up on a soap box here so bear with me!!!---- I am sure you heard this all before so here I go..... I really hate it when people feel that just because they are a member of a certain group they can speak for it as a whole. I know that there are individuals who feel negatively towards the nickname, but there is a larger silent majority that feels positively towards the name. Every one is entitled to their own opinion but to try to speak for an entire ethnic group is just plain crazy. If all Native Americans were against the nickname there wouldnt be people speaking out for it! I personally think the "Fighting Sioux" nickname is paying homage to the Native American heritage of the state. While some may use the name in a disrespectful manner that is more often than not aimed at the team not a Native Americans it represents. If I say "Gophers Suck" it does not mean that I have negative feelings for all the worlds small fuzzy gophers, it simply means that I feel the Gopher Hockey team is Sup-par. I don't pretend to speak for all people at UND or any other group, I simply state my opinion. And If you opinion differs from mine that is OK. But state it as YOUR opinion not that of an entire group. -Sorry about the rant! Quote
redwing77 Posted October 13, 2003 Posted October 13, 2003 I just look at it as venting really. You see, if the people of the world had nothing to complain about because everything in the world was perfect, I firmly believe they'd invent something to complain about. Or they would suffer massive brain trauma and go insane. UND is supplying some people with something to complain about that doesn't require you to actually attend the University. Therefore, you can argue, UND is giving people like this some mental health. Quote
Goon Posted October 13, 2003 Posted October 13, 2003 Look at some of the crap that is written on this web page. They have this one person who goes by the tag as Flickertail and she is a duzi. http://www.UND-fraud.com/Discussion%208-03/index.html Remember this is the same idiots Vivian Nelson and Glenda Misken also these are the same mental giants that are suing UND. Quote
redwing77 Posted October 13, 2003 Posted October 13, 2003 Is it me or is it just UND Flickertail just talking to itself/himself/herself? A discussion board with only one poster is just a technological way of talking to a wall. Quote
CoteauRinkRat Posted October 13, 2003 Posted October 13, 2003 The vocal minority is at it again. This group of anti-name people could hold their yearly meeting in a phone booth. Quote
Goon Posted October 13, 2003 Posted October 13, 2003 Is it me or is it just UND Flickertail just talking to itself/himself/herself? A discussion board with only one poster is just a technological way of talking to a wall. Yep and well one UND fan that keeps slambing these dimwits after every stupid post that they make. This site is so messed up that even Johnny Hoff stays away from it. Now that is credibility... Quote
sioux fan in phoenix Posted October 13, 2003 Posted October 13, 2003 This group of anti-name people could hold their yearly meeting in a phone booth. As long as they dial down the middle, 1-800-CALL-ATT. "It's free for you & cheap for them." Flickertail could probably benefit from a meaningful relationship-the sooner the better. Maybe this would channel his energies in a more appropriate direction... Quote
jakester Posted October 20, 2003 Posted October 20, 2003 I found this statement from the reader opinions section after the article to be ironic. "Name: Louis Gray Date: Oct, 08 2003 Merry Ketterling is a brave woman on a noble path. I will say a prayer for her and her group. Do not give up, you are fighting for not only your dignity, but that of your children's. Remember, once the school understands how you feel, to maintain the mascot and its ugliness is intentional. Louis Gray, Tulsa Indian Coalition Against Racism." I saw her son at the UND/BC hockey game on Saturday looking very dignified in his Fighting Sioux hockey jersey. Quote
PCM Posted October 20, 2003 Posted October 20, 2003 I just noticed that Merry Ketterling responed to the remark I posted about the Brookings Register article. Here's what I submitted: Name: Patrick Miller Date: Oct, 12 2003Â March 4, 2002, Sports Illustrated: "Asked if high school and college teams should stop using Indian nicknames, 81% of Native American respondents said no."Merry K wrote: Name: Merry Ketterling Date: Oct, 15 2003Â In response to Patrick Miller about the Sports Illustrated poll. Don't believe all polls are ligitimate. We have asked the Sports Illustrated to send us the questions they asked people. As I understand, telephone calls were made to a lot of elders, and they couldn't understand what was going on. Also 85% of maybe 100 isn't much. Get real...Did you know that Sports Illustrate is partly owned by Ted Turner, who owns the Atlanta Braves, and has been asked to change the tomahawk chop etc? Well put two and two together. It wasn't long before that the Sports Illustrated wrote an article about Ralph Englestad and his Nazi parties, also the Minnesota Monthly, and the Chronicle of Higher Education. It might do you good to read these articles. Please don't bother to honor us anymore. Merry Let me get this straight: Ted Turner can get phony public opinion survey results published in SI, but he can't stop the magazine from publishing a story that did a hatchet job on UND for its use of the Sioux name. That certainly makes sense to me. Merry's excuse about calls being made to tribal elders who "couldn't understand what was going on" ranks right up there with Doreen Yellowbird's claim that the telephone survey wasn't accurate because many people on the reservation don't have phones. Quote
ScottM Posted October 20, 2003 Posted October 20, 2003 Perhaps Merry should pull her head out of her nether regions. Turner does not own the Braves any longer, or for about the past 7-8 years. They are owned, for now by Time Warner, but I believe they are in the process of being sold, unless the deal is already closed. They still own SI, and I really doubt any magazine is going to skewer a story to appease Ted Turner, possibly the richest liberal in the US, e.g., money to the UN, land conservation, former hubby of Hanoi Jane Fonda (caught doing "The Chop" on film, etc. Moreover, the one-sided, half-assed hatchet jobs Minnesota Monthly and COHE did on Engelstad and UND rank up there with the New Yorker slobbering over Garrison Keilor. As far as "partial" ownership, she may want to ensure that any 401K, pension, etc. funds are not invested in Time Warner on her behalf. Quote
CoteauRinkRat Posted October 20, 2003 Posted October 20, 2003 It is just more of the misinformation campaign coming from the left. If they don't have the facts, they like to make their own up. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted October 20, 2003 Posted October 20, 2003 Sports Illustrate, March 4, 2002, Page 69, inside the inset box: Although most Native American activist and tribal leaders consider Indian team names and mascots offensive, neither Native Americans in general nor a cross-section of U.S. sports fans agree. That is one of the findings of a poll conducted for SI by the Peter Harris Research Group. The pollsters interviewed 351 Native Americans (217 living on reservations and 134 living off) and 743 fans. Their responses were weighted according to U.S. census figures for age, race and gender, and for distribution of Native Americans on and off reservations.The inset also noted the margin of error was plus or minus 4%. Now, knowing the source, a noted and reputable firm, and methodology: Asked if high school and college teams should stop using Indian nicknames, 81% of Native American respondents said no. Brian Ojanpa, Mankato Free Press Staff Writer, put it best: It would seem that anti-nickname forces now face an untenable predicament: Mock the research or mock Native Americans ... In her response, Ms. Ketterling split the difference and did both. Quote
Goon Posted October 22, 2003 Posted October 22, 2003 I found this statement from the reader opinions section after the article to be ironic. "Name: Louis Gray Date: Oct, 08 2003 Merry Ketterling is a brave woman on a noble path. I will say a prayer for her and her group. Do not give up, you are fighting for not only your dignity, but that of your children's. Remember, once the school understands how you feel, to maintain the mascot and its ugliness is intentional. Louis Gray, Tulsa Indian Coalition Against Racism." I saw her son at the UND/BC hockey game on Saturday looking very dignified in his Fighting Sioux hockey jersey. Also isn't Merry White? Quote
PCM Posted October 22, 2003 Posted October 22, 2003 Also isn't Merry White? The story in the Brookings Register says that she's a member of the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe. Quote
Goon Posted October 22, 2003 Posted October 22, 2003 The story in the Brookings Register says that she's a member of the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe. Thanks that answers my question. I was wondering if she was one of the white hand wringing liberal or not. But that clears it up... Quote
elmduf Posted October 22, 2003 Posted October 22, 2003 It is just more of the misinformation campaign coming from the left. Hey guys, as a card carrying member of the ACLU (which I am, and am proud of it!) I can assure you that there isn't some grand conspiracy or a "misinformation campaign" coming from the left on this school nickname issue. Calm down guys, this is just a few bored folks trying to get their names and this issue to the attention of a bored smalltown media. Don't sweat it guys. I'm a UND alum and a Fighting Sioux fan. I like the nickname and don't see a problem with it. If there was a SERIOUS campaign against the name, there would be more than a handfull of people out there rallying against it. They just seem to crave the attention they get by using this non-issue. If there was SERIOUS support of this non-issue coming from the left, there would be HUGE rallies speaking out against these nicknames. North Dakota is a state where all three members of congress are Democrats. Although they are probably more moderate than guys like me, that still shows that there is a considerable percentage of liberal leaning Democrats in the state of North Dakota. No doubt, a minority of North Dakotans are liberal leaning, but still that would be quite a large number of folks that don't seem to be showing up at these rallies. I'm not here to argue politics, so don't even start that crap with me. I'm a Fighting Sioux sports fan, and I like the nickname. You can be a Sioux fan and it doesn't matter to me if you are a Republican, Democrat or a Green Party member. You don't even vote or care about politics. This is only sports, support of your alma mater and cheering our sports teams. Some folks here make it sound like you had better be a card carrying dittohead to be a Sioux fan! That's not true at all. But in my opinion you do have to hate those stinking Gophers and Bison and continue to cheer the Fighting Sioux! Quote
CoteauRinkRat Posted October 22, 2003 Posted October 22, 2003 So there isn't any misinformation coming from the anti-nickname groups? Congratulations on being a card carrying member of the ACLU, wow. The misinformation is not coming from the right, that is for sure. Quote
sioux fan in phoenix Posted October 23, 2003 Posted October 23, 2003 elmduf, I'd like to join the ACLU...Like you, I'm pro-NAMBLA & want "under God" removed from the Pledge of Allegiance--America is becoming a theocracy & I want it to stop! Quote
elmduf Posted October 23, 2003 Posted October 23, 2003 CoteauRinkRat and sioux fan in phoenix, My point is, I put politics aside with this inane B.S. about the nickname. I don't argue politics on a sports message board, but I also think everyone has a right to their own opinion. Because there really isn't any serious opposition to the nickname, this is not a "hot" political issue. Yes, there are left leaning small pockets of folks who want the name changed. It's pretty obvious they do not have a broad base of support and are not very credible. Keep in mind that these protests are not coming from a wide sweeping group called "the left". Jeez, we Democrats couldn't even pass a decent health care act when we had total control of Congress and the White House. How can you possibly expect a large coalition of liberals to get together and successfully oppose an issue that they honestly don't even care about? However, it is correct that they are coming from what CoteauRinkRat describes as "anti-nickname groups". In my opinion, they are a small and very bored group of folks who want to get their names and their common "cause" in the paper. They get a thrill when they make a splash in small town papers like the Forum or the Herald. These groups are just a small blip in larger media outlets like the Denver Post or the St. Paul Pioneer Press. Even though they are small, I do think we should stand up an oppose these folks, but don't give them more credit than they deserve. btw...I am a member of the ACLU, but I also am a member of the NRA (Hey, growing up in North Dakota kind of breeds this kind of independence).....I'm more of a ala carte liberal rather than what you would call a knee jerk reactionary. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted October 23, 2003 Posted October 23, 2003 What amazes me on this front is that true classical liberals should be lining up next to UND's right to the moniker. This is a classic case of "I don't have to like what you say but I have to defend your right to say it." There are lots of things out there I don't like but my personal feelings do not give me the right to shut down someone else's free speech. I'm sure no one is surprised by the NCA evaluation out today: UND is a great school. Reaccredited for (max allowed) 10 years! But, of course, they had to mention the moniker because the small factions in question brought it to them. Of course, the NCA did the same at the University of Illinois (regarding the Illini moniker and the Chief Illiniwek mascot). UI's position was (paraphrased): thanks for the comments but even you admit this is not an accreditation based issue. elmduf: The ACLU and the NRA? I bet you have to sit in the back corner in both meetings. Are you sure you're not more Libertarian-bent than liberal per se? Quote
airmail Posted October 23, 2003 Posted October 23, 2003 btw...I am a member of the ACLU, but I also am a member of the NRA ... That is the funniest damn thing I've read in months. Spilled coffee all over the place. Quote
redwing77 Posted October 23, 2003 Posted October 23, 2003 The Accreditation board that just visited UND just submitted a recommendation to the ND board of Higher Ed to revisit the Sioux nickname. Might not lead anywhere, but it was the only recommendation the chairperson of the committee read to UND officials during the exit interview. There is an article on the front page of today's Herald, but I don't have the link, sorry. It may not be an issue with the ACLU, but it is with the accreditation board. Who knows what is going to happen. But right now, I doubt anything will. But I'll say one thing right now: If they haven't found a new chair for the ND Board of Higher Ed yet, UND folks will now have to pay closer attention to this search after this recommendation. Quote
CoteauRinkRat Posted October 23, 2003 Posted October 23, 2003 It will be interesting to see how this issues plays out over the next 10 years, which happens to be the length of the accredidation awarded to UND. You never know what kind of things will play out over the next decade. Quote
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