USF @ Fighting Sioux - GDT

[dlsiouxfan]

Just to clarify the co-defensive coordinator idea was Dale Lennon's...

Roger never srewed the program, his lack of success for the program was directly tied to the brand new REA...short memories Roger was AD in 2000 National Champ team...

Roger never intentionally screwed the program but he let REA run the athletic department when he was in charge and nobody over at REA was a friend of the football program. Thomas could have had some balls and stood up to them but he never did and so it continued. Tough place to be as it probably would have cost him his job if he had stood up to them on a few things but sometimes the right thing to do and what's in someones own self interest are two different things.

[dlsiouxfan]

While we're throwing around old Lennon quotes to try to rationalize getting schooled by an NAIA team, I recall that the other reason he cited for wanting to move the team to D-I was that he had started losing every head-to-head recruiting battle with the regional I-AA teams. The weaknesses today were the same we've seen all year; the disappointing aspect was the apparent lack of intensity, relative to some previous games. No fan left that game feeling that UND played their hearts out but that USF was just a superior team (e.g. at Texas Tech); instead we all feel like USF was probably good but it's tough to say how good because UND's performance was so lackluster.

Jim, we're in agreement. The lack of talent on this squad is a direct result of not moving the program to Division I sooner. Kupchella and Thomas never pushed for the Division I move because the REA didn't want it. This damaged the football program more than any other program on campus and now we're seeing the results. Lennon left because he fought harder than anyone to keep this program competive and all he ever got was a cold shoulder from the administration. This all seems to be a moot point now with Faison and Kelly in charge but it should serve as a stark reminder to the fans of UND's other sports of what can happen when the hockey only crowd get's everything they want for an extended period of time.

[jimdahl]

If you ever talk to Lennon in private he'll tell you that this is pretty much true. He had to fight the AD tooth and nail for every dollar that was spent on UND football during his tenure here. It's a shame that it never saw the light of day how much guys like Buning, Thomas, and Kupchella put the screws to the football program when they were in charge.

While we're throwing around old Lennon quotes to try to rationalize getting schooled by an NAIA team, I recall that the other reason he cited for wanting to move the team to D-I was that he had started losing every head-to-head recruiting battle with the regional I-AA teams. The weaknesses today were the same we've seen all year; the disappointing aspect was the apparent lack of intensity, relative to some previous games. No fan left that game feeling that UND played their hearts out but that USF was just a superior team (e.g. at Texas Tech); instead we all feel like USF was probably good but it's tough to say how good because UND's performance was so lackluster.

Edit -- sorry my post is after dlsiouxfan's reply, I was trying to make a change to it, but wasn't quick enough

[fightingsioux4life]

Jim, we're in agreement. The lack of talent on this squad is a direct result of not moving the program to Division I sooner. Kupchella and Thomas never pushed for the Division I move because the REA didn't want it. This damaged the football program more than any other program on campus and now we're seeing the results. Lennon left because he fought harder than anyone to keep this program competive and all he ever got was a cold shoulder from the administration. This all seems to be a moot point now with Faison and Kelly in charge but it should serve as a stark reminder to the fans of UND's other sports of what can happen when the hockey only crowd get's everything they want for an extended period of time.

I am a long-time hockey season-ticket holder, but........AMEN!

[dlsiouxfan]

While we're throwing around old Lennon quotes to try to rationalize getting schooled by an NAIA team, I recall that the other reason he cited for wanting to move the team to D-I was that he had started losing every head-to-head recruiting battle with the regional I-AA teams. The weaknesses today were the same we've seen all year; the disappointing aspect was the apparent lack of intensity, relative to some previous games. No fan left that game feeling that UND played their hearts out but that USF was just a superior team (e.g. at Texas Tech); instead we all feel like USF was probably good but it's tough to say how good because UND's performance was so lackluster.

Edit -- sorry my post is after dlsiouxfan's reply, I was trying to make a change to it, but wasn't quick enough

No problem... I kind of felt like I was losing it for a second there.

[moser53]

I was at the game and USF quarterback Lorenze Brown was the best player on the field today.

19 rushes 116 yards 20-33 passing 3 TD's and no picks. UND could not stop him.

A great QB makes all the difference in a teams makeup. I think your team plays with alot more confidence

with a good QB. Landry will have better days and he is a good QB. All you have to do is look at the Bison without

Steve Walker and the Bison play with alot less confidence. Better days are coming hang in there.

[UND92,96]

Dale Lennon hasn't lost his touch--SIU won at Northern Iowa today.

[rjjockers]

From a sideline perspective:

This is a very simple diagnosis of the game today and our current team: We missed countless opportunities and made multiple stupid decisions(penalties etc.) that allowed USF to win the game. USF is not any different than the last two opponents we have played. Granted, their QB can run, but we can't tackle so it doesn't really matter. If we have played our game this would have no doubt been a Fighitng Sioux victory.

Case in point: USF snaps the ball to the back of their own endzone, easy safety right? Nope, they manage to get the ball all the way back to their own 2 yard line with 4 missed tackles from UND to show for it.

Not mention USF ran the same screen play about 6-7 times, you think we would have picked up on it.....

[Shawn-O]

Dale Lennon hasn't lost his touch--SIU won at Northern Iowa today.

Which is what they hired him to do, congrats to the Salukis.

[bincitysioux]

Worst. Loss. Ever.

Sure, Sioux Falls is a nice team, but losing to any NAIA team should never happen to a UND team.

This was easily the most embarassing loss I've seen in 20+ years as a Sioux fan.

Not ready to jump on the Fire Mussman train yet, he's only had a year and a half on the job, and before 1:00 yesterday had this team exactly where I felt they would be. Manassau and Kelling however are in their 4th season leading this defense, and every year since the D has gotten more and more disappointing.

The only concern I have with Mussman's influence on this team, is the apparent Jeckyl & Hyde factor every other week. Have a good showing against FBS Texas Tech, then get smoked by SFA. Totally in control agains South Dakota, then get smoked against NAIA Sioux Falls. UC Davis & Montana St. both went to OT with USD, and really we didn't have much trouble with them after the first couple series.

[Matt]

Worst. Loss. Ever.

Sure, Sioux Falls is a nice team, but losing to any NAIA team should never happen to a UND team.

This was easily the most embarassing loss I've seen in 20+ years as a Sioux fan.

Not ready to jump on the Fire Mussman train yet, he's only had a year and a half on the job, and before 1:00 yesterday had this team exactly where I felt they would be. Manassau and Kelling however are in their 4th season leading this defense, and every year since the D has gotten more and more disappointing.

The only concern I have with Mussman's influence on this team, is the apparent Jeckyl & Hyde factor every other week. Have a good showing against FBS Texas Tech, then get smoked by SFA. Totally in control agains South Dakota, then get smoked against NAIA Sioux Falls. UC Davis & Montana St. both went to OT with USD, and really we didn't have much trouble with them after the first couple series.

I agreed with Muss' postgame comments that he was outcoached. USF doesn't outman UND at a position to position basis (their QB is an exception but he's a system QB that UND wouldn't recruit). However, in this game USF not only executed their scheme flawlessly, but the strategic matchups they created gave them numbers advantages that overcame their size/speed disadvantages up and down their roster. How many times did they execute that screen before it was stopped? How many open receivers (that had far less speed than the UND Dbacks) did they have in the seam? They were so sharp and efficient it was almost robotic. At this point in the season, why isn't the UND offense and defense anywhere near that sharp against an athletically inferior opponent?

[Witt]

Few things.

Other than a few prick UND fans, the visit was very pleasant in terms of conduct. In the lobby a guy came up and asked me about USF..spoke for a second..and I shook his hand and said, "good luck", like you would any opponent you just met....to which he replied, "yer gonna need it..haha" Other than the occasional moment like that, the UND fans seemed a bit humbled in the dome. Several Sioux fans come up and shook hands and said nice things about USF and such..and while I realize USD fans and Augie people have said that UND folks are the worst, I have to say that I didn't see that.

First off, I'm very proud to be a Coo fan from Sioux Falls..our young men came into a tough place to win and frankly broke the spirit of the Sioux..physically. I'm gonna be real straight with you folks here....I thought the Sioux would be athletic and more physical..and that the athletic difference at this level would be the hardest thing for USF to overcome. After watching USF drive down the field after the opening kickoff, I could see USF every bit as athletic as the Sioux..which suprised me.

Having watched 2 Sioux games coming into this, and then watching virtually all the Coo games over the last few years....I feel very comfortable saying that USF is FAR better coached than the Sioux..not even close. The adjustments and gameplanning from USF, versus the inability to adjust by UND was almost funny to Coo fans. "Looks like they fell for the screen again" USF doing the short kicks and UND making no adjustment to that..just poor special teams coaching there. The continual undisciplined penalties and such..it will never put a team in a good position to succeed. USF kept the UND defense off balance pretty much the entire game....and if USF didn't take their foot off the gas in the 4th, frankly it would have been worse than it was. Believe it. USF's scheme and preparation was an A for this game, while the UND coaches were about a D+.

I went into the game being scared to death of Bamba....and he hit the deep ball early and I thought, "here we go", but the next time they went there USF tricked UND and got an easy pick. After Bamba realized they weren't trying the homerun ball anymore, he seemed to lose motivation..and didn't seem to care to sell out for any of the short passes..dropping nearly everything thrown his way.

As I hoped/figured, Holleman (2 INT) and Zo Brown (4 tds) would have to make plays for USF..and they did. Zo is a fantastic talent, and USF only turns him loose when they need to. USF tackled well (Cody Cavender, #23) and had few mistakes.

I fully realize that the brunt of the Sioux fans think it's all about UND having a horrible showing to an NAIA team....but if USF dominates the NAIA level how do we really know how good they are? USF needs to take games like this to test themselves. I think they passed the test yesterday..and became legit to all the haters such as USD and Augie people.

Impressive stadium and UND folks seemed like good people.

Later.

[Shawn-O]

Losses like yesterday just flat out shouldn't happen, but that doesn't take away from the fact that you have a fine football team down there in Sioux Falls, Witt. I'm glad you had a good experience in Grand Forks and at the Alerus. Not glad about the scoreboard, though.

So what happens from here? Does a loss like this increase visibility of the program and turn some of the indifference into heat, or do people completely jump off the bandwagon and the Cal-Poly game draws 5,000? Speaking for myself, I will be tuned in to the broadcast next Saturday from SUU. We may not like the results between the lines, but I'll continue to support them through thick and thin. Sitting through the late 80's must have toughened me up some.

[UND92,96]

Losses like yesterday just flat out shouldn't happen, but that doesn't take away from the fact that you have a fine football team down there in Sioux Falls, Witt. I'm glad you had a good experience in Grand Forks and at the Alerus. Not glad about the scoreboard, though.

So what happens from here? Does a loss like this increase visibility of the program and turn some of the indifference into heat, or do people completely jump off the bandwagon and the Cal-Poly game draws 5,000? Speaking for myself, I will be tuned in to the broadcast next Saturday from SUU. We may not like the results between the lines, but I'll continue to support them through thick and thin. Sitting through the late 80's must have toughened me up some.

When something like this happened to the men's basketball program, it resulted in fan apathy, which hasn't really been overcome since. That's my concern. We can all debate what, if any changes need to be made, but if the public loses faith/interest in the program, it becomes difficult to get back, and it costs the athletic department a lot of money in lost ticket sales. It may be a big problem in both Grand Forks and Fargo next season unless things improve quickly.

[badger1]

WHAT HAPPENED???

[Tommiejo]

Few things.

Other than a few prick UND fans, the visit was very pleasant in terms of conduct. In the lobby a guy came up and asked me about USF..spoke for a second..and I shook his hand and said, "good luck", like you would any opponent you just met....to which he replied, "yer gonna need it..haha" Other than the occasional moment like that, the UND fans seemed a bit humbled in the dome. Several Sioux fans come up and shook hands and said nice things about USF and such..and while I realize USD fans and Augie people have said that UND folks are the worst, I have to say that I didn't see that.

First off, I'm very proud to be a Coo fan from Sioux Falls..our young men came into a tough place to win and frankly broke the spirit of the Sioux..physically. I'm gonna be real straight with you folks here....I thought the Sioux would be athletic and more physical..and that the athletic difference at this level would be the hardest thing for USF to overcome. After watching USF drive down the field after the opening kickoff, I could see USF every bit as athletic as the Sioux..which suprised me.

Having watched 2 Sioux games coming into this, and then watching virtually all the Coo games over the last few years....I feel very comfortable saying that USF is FAR better coached than the Sioux..not even close. The adjustments and gameplanning from USF, versus the inability to adjust by UND was almost funny to Coo fans. "Looks like they fell for the screen again" USF doing the short kicks and UND making no adjustment to that..just poor special teams coaching there. The continual undisciplined penalties and such..it will never put a team in a good position to succeed. USF kept the UND defense off balance pretty much the entire game....and if USF didn't take their foot off the gas in the 4th, frankly it would have been worse than it was. Believe it. USF's scheme and preparation was an A for this game, while the UND coaches were about a D+.

I went into the game being scared to death of Bamba....and he hit the deep ball early and I thought, "here we go", but the next time they went there USF tricked UND and got an easy pick. After Bamba realized they weren't trying the homerun ball anymore, he seemed to lose motivation..and didn't seem to care to sell out for any of the short passes..dropping nearly everything thrown his way.

As I hoped/figured, Holleman (2 INT) and Zo Brown (4 tds) would have to make plays for USF..and they did. Zo is a fantastic talent, and USF only turns him loose when they need to. USF tackled well (Cody Cavender, #23) and had few mistakes.

I fully realize that the brunt of the Sioux fans think it's all about UND having a horrible showing to an NAIA team....but if USF dominates the NAIA level how do we really know how good they are? USF needs to take games like this to test themselves. I think they passed the test yesterday..and became legit to all the haters such as USD and Augie people.

Impressive stadium and UND folks seemed like good people.

Later.

That makes a whole lot of sense there. Hell i'm still shaking my head from yesterday's game at the SWAMP with Arkansas. First of all we were & I repeat were "VERY LUCKY" to win that game. Second it's going to take 6 months to get rid of the odor in the SWAMP because we stunk up the place to be honest with you. That's what I think others will think different.

SIOUX HOCKEY FAN SINCE 1973.

[Irish]

Is anyone else stunned at our inability to make adjustments as the game went on? Take the kick-offs. It was soon clear that their strategy was to keep the ball away from Bamba and 'pooch" kick it up in the air to about the 30-35 yard line. Most of the time it went to #35, a linebacker who was in there to block or hit someone. He obviously was instructed to fair catch even with no-one within 10-15 yards of him. Why didn't we put other personnel in that spot - a recieiver or d-back for example and try to make them pay for a short kick? Hats off to the Sioux Falls coaching staff - they were so far ahead of our coaches - talk about a mismatch.

[JackJD]

This is not only embarassing to North Dakota right now but also South Dakota, SDSU, NDSU, Augie, the whole of the former NCC.

How about we leave SDSU out of this discussion? (We had our own LaCrosse game a few years ago.) The USF over UND win causes this Jackrabbit no embarassment. This is UND's problem.

[CMSioux]

Okay maybe this was said earlier in this thread I haven't read them all yet. No excuses from here, USF was a disciplined solid team and they beat us. But it has been said many times that a DII team at the top (which is what USF is based on their scholarships) can beat a IAA (whatever the initials are) team that is down.

Again no excuses, but I would say this team, which is a transition team, is not one of our best teams we've seen in the past 10-20 years. I support them and cheer as loud as I can. I think they are trying hard, I appreciate their dedication to Sioux Pride during a transition year when the only thing to play for is the pride on the field.

[mksioux]

The biggest problem with this game was that it was played in the first place. There is simply no reason to play any NAIA team, but especially the best one. There was absolutely nothing for UND to gain and everything to lose. Yesterday, everything was lost. And if you have to schedule NAIA teams, make sure they are the type of team that has no chance of winning. You simply cannot afford to gamble with losing to an NAIA team. The fact that they may be as good as a good DII team means nothing to the casual fan and, more importantly, to recruits. All they will see is that UND got dominated by an NAIA team. You can't put the program in jeopardy like that during a delicate transition. I believed that before yesterday and I still believe that. If there was absolutely no other options for a 5th home game other than Sioux Falls, it would have been better to go with a 4 home game schedule. I know ticket revenue is important, but the loss yesterday will cost the athletic department much more dearly than the money they made from yesterday's game. This is the type of loss that can lead to a decade of apathy, especially since UND is not in a real conference and doesn't have any heated rivalries. Scheduling this game was the worst decision Faison has made since he's been here.

I think the SDSU-LaCrosse comparison is not on point at all. After that game, they were still Division I and UND and USD were still Division II. They had a built in advantage over two of the four Dakota schools going forward after that loss. UND has no advantages right now and this loss will be much more difficult to overcome.

[mksioux]

Great Game! I knew that interview at the End was heading to the A....... We have alot of guys hurt! Really? It was fun can't wait for the next UND USF game in 2011

Don't count on it. No way the 2011 game happens.

[UND92,96]

If you ever talk to Lennon in private he'll tell you that this is pretty much true. He had to fight the AD tooth and nail for every dollar that was spent on UND football during his tenure here. It's a shame that it never saw the light of day how much guys like Buning, Thomas, and Kupchella put the screws to the football program when they were in charge.

While it's all water under the bridge now, and I certainly don't begrudge Lennon for taking a big raise, the timing of the whole thing in retrospect is unfortunate. Buning was already gone when Lennon left, and Kupchella's impending retirement was roughly a month away. Looking back in time, I can only wonder what might have been had Lennon demanded a big raise (hey, it worked for Chapman ) , and coaxed Bubba back for the dI move. Lennon as head coach...Bubba running the defense...Mussman running the offense..sign some juco's to fill in the holes from all the early departures, and oh, what may have been...

[Matt]

While it's all water under the bridge now, and I certainly don't begrudge Lennon for taking a big raise, the timing of the whole thing in retrospect is unfortunate. Buning was already gone when Lennon left, and Kupchella's impending retirement was roughly a month away. Looking back in time, I can only wonder what might have been had Lennon demanded a big raise, and coaxed Bubba back for the dI move. Lennon as head coach...Bubba running the defense...Mussman running the offense..sign some juco's to fill in the holes from all the early departures, and oh, what may have been...

I agree. While I don't think this team is talented enough to win the conference, I do think it has more than enough to dispatch USF at a mimimum. The staff has been failing this team, and it took this week to expose it to everyone.

[dlsiouxfan]

While it's all water under the bridge now, and I certainly don't begrudge Lennon for taking a big raise, the timing of the whole thing in retrospect is unfortunate. Buning was already gone when Lennon left, and Kupchella's impending retirement was roughly a month away. Looking back in time, I can only wonder what might have been had Lennon demanded a big raise (hey, it worked for Chapman ) , and coaxed Bubba back for the dI move. Lennon as head coach...Bubba running the defense...Mussman running the offense..sign some juco's to fill in the holes from all the early departures, and oh, what may have been...

UND had their shot to keep Lennon and opted not to do it since apparently it's blasphemy at this institution if anyone ever makes more than the hockey coach. This attitude will pretty much ensure a lack of success for both the men's basketball teams and the football team until it's changes. Whatever coaches are good will leave for higher paying jobs and the ones who aren't any good will be left behind.

[tnt]

Haha....Look at all the front running fans here....The Sioux football team has dominated for years, now they are making the very tough transition to Division 1 and have one bad loss to a team that has absolutely dominated NAIA for years and everyone is making this sound like its already UND men's basketball season(not coming to games, calling for coaches heads, and ripping all the players on the team...haha)...Keep in mind front runners that UND was pretty much Division 2 up until this year...keep in mind front runners that the highly regarded recruits that Mussman "must get" to make this team better probably don't want to come play for a team in transition....Now for those who want to say Lennon wouldn't let this happen, keep in mind that some of those players on that team are still Lennon's guys....

With all that being said I just wanna say that alot of these kids on the field play there heart out, they live and die with each snap, and for you front runners to sit back and rip the kids, that's just stupid, go ahead rip coaches, they get paid, cause that's probably the only way you can contribute to the program....Nice contribution by the way!!!

Finally keep ripping and ripping and hating the other sports to while your at it, like the Men's basketball team, Women's basketball team(second guessing Roebuck last year...WOW), Hockey team(seems you always call for the coaches head early then shut up late...maybe you should always shut up!) and say what you must to this post, but remember unless you can get beyond your comfortable seats, you don't have a clue whats goin on.....Sioux Pride......ha.......later

So being concerned by undisciplined play is being a front runner?