BTHC - Alvarez and OSU want to make it happen?

[82SiouxGuy]

I understand that, but the only Big 10 schools that have hockey are Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, and Ohio State. Notre Dame makes it 6, and I don't see the point of starting a 6 team conference. Maybe I'm being ignorant of something, but it seems to me that if those 6 schools needed 4 teams to fill out the conference, UND would make by far the most sense.

The belief is that the Big Ten has a rule that if 6 schools have the sport, they will have a Big Ten Conference in that sport. There have been other 6 team conferences, some that have done quite well. The Big Ten is very stable, so the chances of losing a school are pretty small. Plus several other Big Ten schools currently have club hockey and have had some level of discussion about moving up. The Big Ten could go ahead with a 6 team conference if they wanted and play a bunch of out of conference games, they could have a bigger conference made up of regular members if other schools moved forward with hockey as a regular sport, or they could have some affiliate members.

If they decide to have affiliate members there is no guarantee that UND would even be considered. The Big Ten, just like several other conferences, are very concerned about being in the company of the "proper" partners or league members. They want the members of their league to meet certain standards of academics and reputation, and seem to want to be affiliated with schools that are on "their level". It is all about image and being associated with peer institutions. So the feeling is that if they want affiliate members they would choose schools that are Division I FBS rather than FCS or Division II. Schools like Bowling Green would probably have a better chance than UND. So the chances of UND being part of a Big Ten Hockey Conference are probably pretty small.

[gopherz]

The belief is that the Big Ten has a rule that if 6 schools have the sport, they will have a Big Ten Conference in that sport. There have been other 6 team conferences, some that have done quite well. The Big Ten is very stable, so the chances of losing a school are pretty small. Plus several other Big Ten schools currently have club hockey and have had some level of discussion about moving up. The Big Ten could go ahead with a 6 team conference if they wanted and play a bunch of out of conference games, they could have a bigger conference made up of regular members if other schools moved forward with hockey as a regular sport, or they could have some affiliate members.

If they decide to have affiliate members there is no guarantee that UND would even be considered. The Big Ten, just like several other conferences, are very concerned about being in the company of the "proper" partners or league members. They want the members of their league to meet certain standards of academics and reputation, and seem to want to be affiliated with schools that are on "their level". It is all about image and being associated with peer institutions. So the feeling is that if they want affiliate members they would choose schools that are Division I FBS rather than FCS or Division II. Schools like Bowling Green would probably have a better chance than UND. So the chances of UND being part of a Big Ten Hockey Conference are probably pretty small.

Sadly, UND is not academically on the level to be a big 10 school, especially in regards to being a research institution. If the Big 10 Hockey Conference does happen, I would hope that Minnesota would still play UND though, as it is a great rivalry.

[Goon]

Sadly, UND is not academically on the level to be a big 10 school, especially in regards to being a research institution. If the Big 10 Hockey Conference does happen, I would hope that Minnesota would still play UND though, as it is a great rivalry.

No doubt; our athletes actually do their our own school work.

[Snake]

People are naive and blind if they don't think BTHC would hurt UND. UND would lose all those games against Wisc and Minnesota. The best UND could hope for is becoming a team like Gonzaga is to college basketball. Play some big boys (usually on the road), beat up on a weak conference schedule, and get beat out in the early rounds of the national tourney.

Last time I checked, Gonzaga doesn't have 7 national titles and the highest all-time NCAA tournament winning percentage in basketball. You're discounting UND's tradition and ability to stand on its own when you make statements like this.

[nodak hockey fanatic]

Wow and I thought St. Cloud had the Marsha, Marsha complex.

well it seems to me that your goofs are below both teams in the wcha, and have yet to get a win against either team UND is struggling right now, but still looks better than the goofs... and here's why i hope you guys continue to lose and miss the postseason... again!! and my opinions on the bthc have not changed.

[nodak hockey fanatic]

you have to look at the big picture here, like gooferz is. i mean since the um hockey team is struggling so much, the bthc would surely bring them back to prominence like their basketball and football teams got any breaking news on anyone else leaving the team gooferz?

[mksioux]

Devils Lake Journal: Indiana Looking at Big Ten Hockey?

The timing may be just right for Indiana and Orr to take that next step. The College Hockey Association, which last year sent a Cinderella Bemidji State team to the Frozen Four is disbanding after this season as BSU, which upset top-ranked Miami (Ohio) last Friday at the Subway Classic at UND, will join the powerful WCHA in time for the 2010-11 season.

How exactly is the timing right because of this? The timing may be right because of the general movement toward Big Ten Hockey, but the timing is not right because the CHA is disbanding. Obviously there is no way Indiana starts a varsity hockey program without the BTHC.

Call me skeptical. Nowhere in the article does it discuss Title IX. Without a clear Title IX plan, adding varsity hockey at any university is just a pipe dream.

[buckysieve]

well it seems to me that your goofs are below both teams in the wcha, and have yet to get a win against either team UND is struggling right now, but still looks better than the goofs...

Yeah that 1 point lead is daunting.

[BringDeanBack]

Last time I checked, Gonzaga doesn't have 7 national titles and the highest all-time NCAA tournament winning percentage in basketball. You're discounting UND's tradition and ability to stand on its own when you make statements like this.

Last time I checked, a school like Gonzaga was never in a conference with the big boys, and then left out in the cold when a new conference was created. With a BTHC, every league game would be a rivalry. I'm not saying that UND would have to close the doors to REA and disband the hockey team, but think about it, what looks more appealing 1) playing games against Michigan, Notre Dame, Minnesota, Wisconsin or 2) Mankato State, Nebraska Omaha, St. Cloud, and Bemidji. Be truthful with yourself and don't look at it through green tinted glasses before answering.

[mksioux]

If they decide to have affiliate members there is no guarantee that UND would even be considered. The Big Ten, just like several other conferences, are very concerned about being in the company of the "proper" partners or league members. They want the members of their league to meet certain standards of academics and reputation, and seem to want to be affiliated with schools that are on "their level". It is all about image and being associated with peer institutions. So the feeling is that if they want affiliate members they would choose schools that are Division I FBS rather than FCS or Division II. Schools like Bowling Green would probably have a better chance than UND. So the chances of UND being part of a Big Ten Hockey Conference are probably pretty small.

Exactly. That is why there should have been pause before embracing Bemidji State and Nebraska Omaha into the WCHA. It further pissed off Wisconsin. Wisconsin, as an institution, wants no part of being associated with schools like Bemidji State. Starting next year, 2/3 of the league will be DII or DIII. Wisconsin is starting to see itself increasingly surrounded by schools that have very little in common with it. Minnesota probably feels the same way, but it has has financial reasons to stay in the WCHA, Wisconsin does not.

It's easy to think UND will be fine without Minnesota and Wisconsin because attendance is good for the other games. However, it is the regular games against recognizable Division I institutions that, in large part, create the buzz and interest in the first place. That buzz and interest carries over to all of the games. Without regular games against Division I schools, UND hockey loses a lot of its luster. Of course, UND with its history, tradition, and facilities, could still bring in big names for non-conference games. UND would not crumble without Minnesota and Wisconsin, but it's equally foolish to think it would have no negative impact.

[nodak hockey fanatic]

Yeah that 1 point lead is daunting.

it was a response to one of your cohorts about your "superior" team... like i said, we've taken 3 out of a possible 4 points from you already this season, and we are still ahead of you in the wcha, as is scsu... a point is a point however you want to sugar coat it there bucky.

[ScottM]

Indiana adding D1 hockey? Color me "skeptical" too. They can't even fill their football stadium, except with opposing fans, and their bouncyball program is still on the ropes. Moreover, Indiana is not really "hockey country" so I don't see IU as the BTHC's great white hope.

[Shawn-O]

I wonder if the Big Ten has talked to BC at all.

[gopherz]

you have to look at the big picture here, like gooferz is. i mean since the um hockey team is struggling so much, the bthc would surely bring them back to prominence like their basketball and football teams got any breaking news on anyone else leaving the team gooferz?

Someone is sure being confrontational for never adding anything with a hint of relevance to the discussion....

Suppose I should come to expect that from you.

[gopherz]

I wonder if the Big Ten has talked to BC at all.

I doubt either side would have mutual interest in regards to the football/basketball segment that would come from it too though. I haven't heard the name thrown around at all, so there must be some reason for it. Obviously if the B10 is going to add a team for hockey, it's going to want to add that team for other sports as well. Notre Dame still seems like the best candidate to me, but that would obviously be a bit down the road. Disregarding the hockey status, Pitt and Rutgers are 2 of the most attractive options.

[gopherz]

Indiana adding D1 hockey? Color me "skeptical" too. They can't even fill their football stadium, except with opposing fans, and their bouncyball program is still on the ropes. Moreover, Indiana is not really "hockey country" so I don't see IU as the BTHC's great white hope.

I agree with you, but they'll never know until they try. IU is basketball country. They sell that place out even when they suck (like last year) and get drilled by every big 10 team. The fan support is there if the program is right, I wouldn't discount them just because of their football stadium. UND football attendance is similar to a high school game. What does that have to do with their hockey program?

[ScottM]

I agree with you, but they'll never know until they try. IU is basketball country. They sell that place out even when they suck (like last year) and get drilled by every big 10 team. The fan support is there if the program is right, I wouldn't discount them just because of their football stadium. UND football attendance is similar to a high school game. What does that have to do with their hockey program?

$$$. Most Big 10 schools have larger football programs which fund money losers, like women's bouncyball, etc. I believe IU has the smallest stadium in the conference, and their FB team is usually worse than Minnesota. Besides, unless someone drops a shiat-load of money on them for a specific purpose, they'd never make it past the Title IX hurdles, let alone the infrastructure for a competitive D1 hockey program.

[gopherz]

$$$. Most Big 10 schools have larger football programs which fund money losers, like women's bouncyball, etc. I believe IU has the smallest stadium in the conference, and their FB team is usually worse than Minnesota. Besides, unless someone drops a shiat-load of money on them for a specific purpose, they'd never make it past the Title IX hurdles, let alone the infrastructure for a competitive D1 hockey program.

You have a point there, especially in this economy too. Lots of athletic departments in the red, I know the U was for the fiscal year, maybe even last year too. Only programs that made money were football, mens hockey, and mens basketball. That being said, you'd think the potential for another sport that'd actually be in the black would be intriguing. I'm not in the know of IU finances so I can't say for sure, but being associated with BTHC could mean positive cash flows for IU. Who knows.

On the point of how terrible their football is, IU just spent a bunch of money to upgrade their stadium, and still got no fan support. That program will never be relevant at all. Almost as sad as Northwestern who has a great coach quietly putting together a great program, and they still draw like a D2 or D1AA team.

[gfhockey]

Ive heard and read on many various media outlets that missouri wants in the big ten and the big ten wants missouri. I ebt this will happen and big ten will have a big ten north conference and big 10 south conference

then i ehar tcu will go to big 12 in place of missouri.

[nodak hockey fanatic]

Someone is sure being confrontational for never adding anything with a hint of relevance to the discussion....

Suppose I should come to expect that from you.

this is a quite humerous observation gooferz considering that the majority of your trolling is just what you described... confrontational without adding anything to the conversation, on an opposing teams site nonetheless... what, you on the outs with your buddies over at gpl. also, how should you come to expect this from me? do we have a history of conversation? i will admit that that particular post added nothing to this conversation other than as a response to our goof trolls, but whos to say that's not relevant? go back to your hole little goofer

[gopherz]

Ive heard and read on many various media outlets that missouri wants in the big ten and the big ten wants missouri. I ebt this will happen and big ten will have a big ten north conference and big 10 south conference

then i ehar tcu will go to big 12 in place of missouri.

Here's a good article on the situation

I was just about to post this. The Big 10 is expected to officially announce that the idea of expansion is moving to the front burners, and is a key issue. The Big 10 is interested in Missouri, and they are willing to listen. I think you are absolutely correct about the 2 conferences, it's huge for football so we can have a conference title game. One concern would be the academic level of Missouri, but that's yet to be discussed in full.

I'd go with more of an East/West breakdown of the conferences, as it makes a little more fiscal sense in my mind:

West:

Minnesota

Wisconsin

Illinois

Northwestern

Iowa

Missouri

East:

Ohio State

Penn State

Indiana

Michigan

Michigan State

Purdue

There's obviously some problems no matter how you'd break it up, but this way would definitely preserve the best rivalries in my opinion. (Would suck to be Indiana for football). Scheduling would be like many other conferences...play everyone in your East or West/North or South/whatever once, and then half of the other division, which flip flops each year.

This will big time come down to academics. Is the Big 10 willing to significantly drop standards to accept a school like Mizzou? I am not sure, but it would be great for sports. Do they have hockey?

[gopherz]

this is a quite humerous observation gooferz considering that the majority of your trolling is just what you described... confrontational without adding anything to the conversation, on an opposing teams site nonetheless... what, you on the outs with your buddies over at gpl. also, how should you come to expect this from me? do we have a history of conversation? i will admit that that particular post added nothing to this conversation other than as a response to our goof trolls, but whos to say that's not relevant? go back to your hole little goofer

I would say my posts are much more factually/discussion based rather than confrontational, but you go ahead and be the judge, won't hurt my feelings. I don't believe we have a history of conversation, but you do have a history of responding to all my posts in this type of manner, if you can call that conversation.

Look, if you have a problem with it, be a man and send me a PM instead of posting this garbage. Back to the BTHC discussion....

[Snake]

Last time I checked, a school like Gonzaga was never in a conference with the big boys, and then left out in the cold when a new conference was created. With a BTHC, every league game would be a rivalry. I'm not saying that UND would have to close the doors to REA and disband the hockey team, but think about it, what looks more appealing 1) playing games against Michigan, Notre Dame, Minnesota, Wisconsin or 2) Mankato State, Nebraska Omaha, St. Cloud, and Bemidji. Be truthful with yourself and don't look at it through green tinted glasses before answering.

I never said a BTHC wouldn't have an impact. I was merely stating that your Gonzaga comparison is a poor one. You even say so in your first sentence above considering UND is already with the "big boys." UND is in a much better position to stay relevant because of its history. Gonzaga is trying to build theirs. Sure, not playing UM or Wisco would mean less appeal and recognition, but I don't think we'd be relegated to a life of one-and-dones come tourney time.

Oh, and if believing the program has enough history and tradition to stand without the likes of Minnesota and Wisconsin means I see things through "green tinted glasses," then so be it. I figured someone living in the past with the moniker "BringDeanBack" could understand that.

[nodak hockey fanatic]

I would say my posts are much more factually/discussion based rather than confrontational, but you go ahead and be the judge, won't hurt my feelings. I don't believe we have a history of conversation, but you do have a history of responding to all my posts in this type of manner, if you can call that conversation.

Look, if you have a problem with it, be a man and send me a PM instead of posting this garbage. Back to the BTHC discussion....

i'm not sure how many of your posts i have responded to, it is few and far between, but i respond when i feel it is warranted, in your case usually some sort of delusion about how wonderful the goofers are, this is a sioux message board after all, so you shouldn't be all that surprised. and i don't feel the need to hide what i say from the rest of the world. if i don't want anyone else to see it, i don't post it, not sure how sending you a private message would make me more of a man? when you add something useful to the conversation, i don't jump on your posts... so seems to me there is a simple solution, im sure you can figure it out

[Goon]

Notre Dame still seems like the best candidate to me, but that would obviously be a bit down the road. Disregarding the hockey status, Pitt and Rutgers are 2 of the most attractive options.

Yeah they are so attractive and have such a storied and honor tradition of playing Hockey.