Nickname on Ballot at Spirit Lake

[Big A HG]

Man....every time it looks like there is no light at the end of the Sioux tunnel, someone lights a fricken torch of gleaming hope. All we can do is hope....

[farce poobah]

I sent Grant Shaft a little message after the recent election and received a reply...see below...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Message for Grant Shaft:

Don't be short sighted on the UND nickname issue...it can still be saved...The current roadblock (Ron His Horse is something) is going to probably lose the election at the end of Sept....you have a chance of saving this still...think of what that might do for your current position...Come on, I heard you are a decent guy, do we really have to give up the Sioux name on 10/1 or do we have some wiggle room?

Name

- UND 1990

REPLY

UND Name and Logo‏

From: grant.shaft@ndus.edu

Sent: Fri 7/17/09 3:32 PM

To: name@hotmail.com

Name: Thank you for your email. I am closely watching the election atStanding Rock and do understand what the implications may be. I am of theopinion, as I believe the rest of the Board of Higher Education is, thatwe intended to accomodate the July and September elections at StandingRock. Therefore, if, as a result of the elections, it is clear that theyintend to approve the use of the name and logo with a long term agreement,and our timeline is the only roadblock, I would urge that the timeline beextended to accomodate them. Our dates are not, in my view, what isimportant, it is the intent to let the tribes speak. Hope this clarifies.Grant Shaft

A typically thoughtful and clearly-articulated response from Grant Shaft. I've had the pleasure of knowing him for many years, and can think of noone better suited to manage this extraordinarily challenging process.

Thanks for sharing.

[Goon]

Man....every time it looks like there is no light at the end of the Sioux tunnel, someone lights a fricken torch of gleaming hope. All we can do is hope....

Good point, It would be nice to get a 30 year agreement in place.

[GeauxSioux]

Man....every time it looks like there is no light at the end of the Sioux tunnel, someone lights a fricken torch of gleaming hope. All we can do is hope....

Give the torch some air (referendum) and watch it grow. Keep praying.

[Goon]

Give the torch some air (referendum) and watch it grow. Keep praying.

It's looking less bleak than it did the other day.

[Big A HG]

It's looking less bleak than it did the other day.

Still bleak though, just less.

[Goon]

Still bleak though, just less.

Yeah 10-04 just not as bad. I suppose me might be splitting hairs. Like Jim Carey says, "so you say there is a chance."

[redwing77]

You know there's no shot at all when Jim Carey quotes start making appearances.

[sioux7>5]

I truly think that if Ron His Horse is ousted by the people on the reservation, I think UND will get to keep the nickname and logo. Maybe it is just wishful thinking on my part but I hope so.

[Goon]

I truly think that if Ron His Horse is ousted by the people on the reservation, I think UND will get to keep the nickname and logo. Maybe it is just wishful thinking on my part but I hope so.

I think it would be the first step in the RIGHT DIRECTION. Some would also look at him as a victim if he loses.

[redwing77]

Here's more food for thought:

Say Ron loses, the new guy puts it to a vote, and the tribe approves it.

Nickname opponents will cite this development as the closest they've gotten to victory since the nickname's adoption and use that to spur them on.

I would not hold it to the more extreme of the anti-nickname crowd to try to egg on negative stories and acts to try to renew the push to change the name even hours after we win the right to keep it.

I'm not saying that it is the fight not worth fighting, but I think both directions can have distinct advantages. I'd love to keep the nickname. I'd love to drive the tribes out of UND's hair forever.

But the one factor will always remain: Even if the nickname goes away, the voices that led this whole thing, those UND employees who spoke out about how awful the nickname was and how horrible it is to work for UND, will just find a new flag to wave against the institution. This kind of power isn't the kind that comes and, upon success, goes away moving towards equality. The taste of it is good to these people and they want more. They equate this power to the fight for equality and not for what it really is: Simply the successful pushing around of the majority for the purposes of supposedly furthering their agenda.

The problem isn't the nickname. It's these leaders who traipse about stirring up unrest and creating a sense of inequality instead of empowering the people they lead towards changing their life for the better. The nickname isn't going to better the cause or lessen the plight of the Sioux people, but their anti-nickname leaders believe that it will at least be a step in that direction. News for them is that it won't. It will simply lead to some rough times for Sioux UND students (because lets face it: Like it or not, someone is going to do something incredibly stupid. Alcohol will probably be involved. And I'll cringe when I hear about it) and then fade into obscurity.

[fightingsiouxfan86]

Official primary election results are in at standingrock.org! Charles W Murphey with the highest came in at 565 votes, Ron His Horse Is Thunder at 220 votes, and Avis Little Eagle at 219 votes! According to the Grand Forks Herald (which is rarely a reliable source) in theory a ballot could be put into circulation on the 30th of September by the winner of the election and if it passed then the tribe could approve a 30 year contract on the 1st of October. I hope it doesn't come down to that sort of time crunch though and judging by the email from Grant Shaft it should be possible to have that deadline extended in order to give the tribes time to make a final decision on the issue. Either way this all sounds good and gives us a least a little bit of hope! Go Sioux!

[dagies]

Official primary election results are in at standingrock.org! Charles W Murphey with the highest came in at 565 votes, Ron His Horse Is Thunder at 220 votes, and Avis Little Eagle at 219 votes! According to the Grand Forks Herald (which is rarely a reliable source) in theory a ballot could be put into circulation on the 30th of September by the winner of the election and if it passed then the tribe could approve a 30 year contract on the 1st of October. I hope it doesn't come down to that sort of time crunch though and judging by the email from Grant Shaft it should be possible to have that deadline extended in order to give the tribes time to make a final decision on the issue. Either way this all sounds good and gives us a least a little bit of hope! Go Sioux!

Do you have a link for the Herald piece?

[redwing77]

Here's a link.

[Big A HG]

One of the few times I'll say this in relation to what you're saying, but...

DITTO!

[Big A HG]

Was the underlined part REALLY neccessary?

Was your reply necessary?

[Diggler]

Stating a fact is not a pot shot. He normally wouldn't agree with you and he said as much. Put on your big boy pants and quit looking for reasons to be offended, think everyone is taking potshots at you or is out to get you.

[Big A HG]

Yes, to point out the fact that you had just taken an unprovoked potshot at me. Try to remember that next time you feel like accusing me of being the only one who ever stirs the pot around here. So now that I've answered your question, how about you answer mine?

That, in no way, was a potshot. You are one Sensitve Susie. I almost always don't agree with what you say, and I said just that. If the sky is blue, I'll call it blue, doesn't make it a potshot.

Here's a question for you to answer again...

My birthday is coming up, and I was wondering what you charge for a public appearance? I was really hoping to get a quality comedian for my party and I think you fit the bill!

[Big A HG]

Thank you for proving my point.

THAT was a potshot...not the first one, but you are definitely laugh-out-loud funny.

[Sioux2007]

That wasn't a potshot, I THANKED you.

Again, I'm not the only one who ever stirs the pot around here and this thread is proof. Once again I would like to thank you for making that so perfectly clear.

PS - I think you're funny too.

Quick Question....what does any of this have to do with the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe vote or nickname?

[krangodance]

From what I've read on this board I understand that the agreement with the NCAA is contingent on the tribes continuous support. When a new chief comes in and he doesn't like the name out it goes. I also think that the SBoE wanted a 30 year agreement which I don't know if a tribe can do that. Usually when a new administration comes in everything is voided from the old one. I think the UND admin just wants this thing to go away.

a 30-year contract is a "continuous agreement". once that contract expires (if such a contract is ever approved), then this issue could be revisited. until then, a contract is a contract.

it would be quite ironic, however, if we bitched about a native american community wanting to break a contract since early europeans in this country did just that like it was their hobby.

[redwing77]

That would be interesting.... if I lived in the past.

The world, as they say, has changed a bit since the "white man" roamed the prairie.

[Chewey]

a 30-year contract is a "continuous agreement". once that contract expires (if such a contract is ever approved), then this issue could be revisited. until then, a contract is a contract.

it would be quite ironic, however, if we bitched about a native american community wanting to break a contract since early europeans in this country did just that like it was their hobby.

And I, being a white man in 2009 and not 1809, am responsible for that how exactly? Achieving a small bit of retribution through the nickname issue 200 years later is hardly a way to productively address whatever present-day issues stem from the conduct of people who lived 200 years ago.

[Big A HG]

That wasn't a potshot, I THANKED you.

Again, I'm not the only one who ever stirs the pot around here and this thread is proof. Once again I would like to thank you for making that so perfectly clear.

PS - I think you're funny too.

Grow a f'in pair of testicles you Nancy. (<---------------potshot)

No, really, do.

[Big A HG]

What are you even talking about? Can you please get over what ever problem it is that you have with me and stop polluting this board with your silly little grudge?

Your bitchass crying after I said I agreed with you.

Nope, it's just too entertaining.