The Writing is on the Wall

[siouxjoy]

I know this isn't the topic for this post-but its the most active lately, so I'll post here to keep things moving.

I was wondering if anyone saw the Michigan State/Notre Dame football game last Saturday?

If so, you would have seen Sparty the Spartan, a paper-mache caricature of a Spartan warrior, running around on the sidelines, mugging for the camera, playing with kids in the crowd and hexing the opponent on key plays. And doing all of this while "wearing" a sombero and serape; in "honor" of Hispanic Heritage month.

So where do we draw the line? What's an "honor" and what's a "mockery"?? One caricature of a real-life group of people donning some stereotypical garments of another group of real-life people??

Who judges whether that's an insult or an honor?

The NCAA will intervene, but only if Sombrero-wearing Spartans are offended.

[GeauxSioux]

[url=http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=88974&section=homepage]State Board won

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

[url=http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=88974&section=homepage]State Board won

[GeauxSioux]

An update to today's online story.

Board member Duaine Espegard of Grand Forks says the board should make a decision about the nickname-logo issue by the fall of 2009.

UND President Robert Kelley says the university has already been preparing for a decision one way or the other.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

An update to today's online story.

Now you wouldn't need to prepare for a decision in favor of the name would you... But you would need to prepare for a decision against the name.

[82SiouxGuy]

Now you wouldn't need to prepare for a decision in favor of the name would you... But you would need to prepare for a decision against the name.

A decision for use of the name may not be as simple as "don't make any changes, keep things exactly as they are". My guess is they are looking at possible modifications to the current usage.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

A decision for use of the name may not be as simple as "don't make any changes, keep things exactly as they are". My guess is they are looking at possible modifications to the current usage.

Good point. That is a possibility.

[fighting sue]

Indeed, I have been wondering more and more if the writing is literally on the wall. Driving by the Alerus today it looked like they had a new (or revised) sign saying, "Home of UND football," with an accompanying helmet graphic, hung from the south side of the building. On the other hand, however, The Ralph has always proudly proclaimed, "Home of the Fighting Sioux."

Is this an example of the Alerus distancing themselves from the name? Does this reflect an official position of the Alerus? Are they trying to create promotional materials that will survive a name change? Or, is this simply because "Home of Fighting Sioux Football" would take too many letters?

[Goon]

Indeed, I have been wondering more and more if the writing is literally on the wall. Driving by the Alerus today it looked like they had a new (or revised) sign saying, "Home of UND football," with an accompanying helmet graphic, hung from the south side of the building. On the other hand, however, The Ralph has always proudly proclaimed, "Home of the Fighting Sioux."

Is this an example of the Alerus distancing themselves from the name? Does this reflect an official position of the Alerus? Are they trying to create promotional materials that will survive a name change? Or, is this simply because "Home of Fighting Sioux Football" would take too many letters?

Actually I noticed that on the Football banners you won't see a logo on any of them.

[82SiouxGuy]

Indeed, I have been wondering more and more if the writing is literally on the wall. Driving by the Alerus today it looked like they had a new (or revised) sign saying, "Home of UND football," with an accompanying helmet graphic, hung from the south side of the building. On the other hand, however, The Ralph has always proudly proclaimed, "Home of the Fighting Sioux."

Is this an example of the Alerus distancing themselves from the name? Does this reflect an official position of the Alerus? Are they trying to create promotional materials that will survive a name change? Or, is this simply because "Home of Fighting Sioux Football" would take too many letters?

That sign was put up before the first game this fall. The new boss out there was on the radio about that time and said that they had consulted with UND and decided it wasn't their place to get involved in the debate. They also didn't want to have to spend money to change it in a year or 2 if the name changes. It was simpler to just go with UND Football.

[YaneA]

At last! Here is a proposal for dialog and negotiation:

http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/i...section=Opinion

[Chewey]

At last! Here is a proposal for dialog and negotiation:

http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/i...section=Opinion

That's an insightful letter. I am sure the Seminoles down in FL have some such agreement. He's right. This is an historic opportunity to work with the U and further self-sufficiency. Such an agreement would not be a "sell out". It would bring revenue and recognition and cultural exposure to the tribes. It seems like a no-brainer to me.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

At last! Here is a proposal for dialog and negotiation:

http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/i...section=Opinion

He has good points, I assume this is what happens at Florida State.

[The Sicatoka]

Last I'd seen regarding FSU and the (real) Seminole Nation, there is an annual straight cash payment (~$500k).

[Siouxmama]

Last I'd seen regarding FSU and the (real) Seminole Nation, there is an annual straight cash payment (~$500k).

UND hits that mark in clothing/merchandise sales each year!

[Chewey]

UND hits that mark in clothing/merchandise sales each year!

And there's nothing at all wrong with that. Such an agreement probably should have been in place all along. I don't know if such an arrangement would pass muster with the myopic and angry voices that would cry "sell-out" though; the vast majority of these voices are white professors and administrators with an ax to grind. It's not about just money. Recognition, cultural exposure, the opportunity to teach, in more detail, non-natives about the Sioux heritage, etc. If one is truly concerned about the tribes and about ongoing "racism" it would seem that such things would assuage those concerns and help to redress whatever problems now exist. Of course, it one is just an angry, whimsical, flippant, creatively atrophied college professor who is pissed off at the "white establishment" and who seeks to stick something in someone's eye, such valid points are mere triflings.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

The new boss out there was on the radio about that time and said that they had consulted with UND and decided it wasn't their place to get involved in the debate. They also didn't want to have to spend money to change it in a year or 2 if the name changes. It was simpler to just go with UND Football.

Hmmm. To me, phrases like "...had consulted with UND..." and "...decided it wasn't their place to get involved in the debate..." sound like the PC translation for "they told us not to do it".

But maybe I'm wrong, maybe this person said it all in good faith.

At last! Here is a proposal for dialog and negotiation:

I agree, an interesting proposal and at least someone is looking to compromise. I hope this isn't the first (and only) proposal to come out of the Native American community.

Just a few thoughts: the bar seems to be set pretty high. Personally, I think the idea of a cut of ticket sales is out of line: the cut of merchandising seems to be the standard for direct payments. And can you really just declare a foreign language course as "accredited"? AFAIK, you need to go thru a long process for that to happen. JMHO, but I would say that courses like that need to be developed at the community colleges on/near the reservations and if popular enough, moved up to the larger campuses. And a lot of the other points seem like they need to go thru the entire university/state of North Dakota budgeting process rather than this (athletics only) process.

Such an agreement probably should have been in place all along.

I don't know what "all along" means in this context, but I will say that if this type of thing had been talked about long ago it probably could have been handled with far less rancor than what is currently being experienced.

And I agree: IMHO some of the most entrenched, over-the-top people don't live on the reservations. And never have.

[darell1976]

I don't mind some of the things he mentioned like the language as a foreign language and the % of sales for merchandising, but say 5 years down the road they want more and UND says no then boom out goes the name. Does that cancel all terms of the deal between UND and the tribes?? Because the NCAA put in the settlement that the name could be changed at any time. So with that in mind i would ask for either a contract to be renewed every 20-50 years or else get rid of the name now. I don't want to deal with this again.

[the green team]

I wasn't aware of any payment regarding the Seminole tribe and FSU, I am however aware that a resolution was drawn up by the tribe and given to the state legislature, many-many years ago- stating that the namesake Seminoles shall never be removed from FSU..that then was ratified by the state legislature. That's all I know- I honestly wasn't aware of any payment, I am aware that there has been less than 10 Seminole Tribe members enrolled at FSU over the past 20 years and I don't believe that they have any arrangement for educational benefits- such as the institution must enroll a certain number every year, as far as I know it doesn't exist.

A Nole Fan.

[redwing77]

I wasn't aware of any payment regarding the Seminole tribe and FSU, I am however aware that a resolution was drawn up by the tribe and given to the state legislature, many-many years ago- stating that the namesake Seminoles shall never be removed from FSU..that then was ratified by the state legislature. That's all I know- I honestly wasn't aware of any payment, I am aware that there has been less than 10 Seminole Tribe members enrolled at FSU over the past 20 years and I don't believe that they have any arrangement for educational benefits- such as the institution must enroll a certain number every year, as far as I know it doesn't exist.

A Nole Fan.

For what it is worth, it was stated numerous times that there is no financial agreement between FSU and the Seminole Nation. Also, there is evidence that the entire Seminole Nation isn't entirely behind this. However, a major tribe, if not several major tribes, have supported the nickname enthusiastically and the state legislation and the fact that it is a big $$$ school for the NCAA, and they're off the list in a hurry.

[GeauxSioux]

Board to meet on Sioux nickname today

North Dakota

[82SiouxGuy]

The plan is in place.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

The plan is in place.

Interesting point:

It became clear during the board

[ScottM]

I wish they would dispense with all of the posturing, pandering and ass-kissing leading up to the final result: the retirement of the name and logo. Get it over with, and let the chips fall accordingly.

[GeauxSioux]

Agreed.