yababy8

Its baffling to me how confused the perspective regarding the significance of Fighting Sioux Hockey. To the point that I start to question my bias in the matter. But then I recall my trip to the frozen four in St. Paul or I remember that the Fighting Sioux have the only National Broadcast of their entire home hockey schedule. Or I think about the Sioux crowd at the plethora of CC and DU games I have attended for over a decade vs a Wisconsin playoff game at DU last year where there were about 5 Badger fans in attendance. I even recall how often Sioux hockeygets mentioned during the Nhl playoff broadcasts where former Sioux players are competing. Then I realize that my perspective has a sound basis. Ofcourse after the crap that has been spewed recently regarding the all importance of "supporting the athletes" I am fully expecting to see 11,500 fans in attendance at the next UND womans tennis match. Then I will no how misguided I have been..

Eddie might argue that one..

Holly Crap! I have SILENCED the kill the name crowd? I guess maybe the payroll funds have run out for a couple of the kill the name perpetrators. Post election is a rough tome for the solders of fortune eh? So are we the ONLY victim in the nation from the set of big time college team programs? ..say it aint so!!

Geeez, so hostile and abusive you are. How bout before you employ me to do a thesis on my newly developed Relative Nickname Value ratio, we first do a little deposition of you to see which schools you would say have big time programs that lost their nickname. Maybe we will agree and thus I would not need to pull out my handy-dandy nickname ratio.

Let's define and measure this on two axis. One-notariety. ie past or current level of sucess, Two-longevity or consistency through time. A good test would be the following, a preponderance of sports fans WHO DID NOT FOLLOW said sport would identify the team as generally a contender through time in that sport. So of course this can be debated with no real solid definition in the conclusion. So when this debate concludes I will ask the question again; "What other schools with a big time athletic program have been raped of their name through this racist NCAA policy?" And if you really wanted to break down the costs we have incurred you need to further consider the nickname/school name ratio (I just made that up) and I will call it the relative nickname value. Where you can measure the use, notoriety, and recognition of the nickname over the same considerations toward the school name. This would tell one what the relative nickname value is for any program. I think every one would agree that the SIOUX NAME would be amongst the highest values one would see for any program in any sport. Not that any of you name killers would want run the honest numbers on anything of this sort.

here is a funny one; I was just making fun of this post to my wife and her response was, "um most schools are only big time in one sport." She then went on by citing Notre Dame, KU and Florida State. She doesnt even watch sports.. Classic.. Oh btw before you fire off examples to the contrary, she did exclaim that some schools were two sport schools.

Ya don't say?

How many big time college athletic programs lost their name? As a successful business man I'm sure Ralph was a results based man. And I further doubt he would have particularly enjoyed having been duped by Myles Brand. Beyond that we can only speculate as to what Ralph would or would not have done.

Here we go again! We are barely a day past the vote and I have now observed 4 instances where some self professed "gets the facts straight" blogger has asserted a meaning to the vote outcome. FYI to all you "get the facts straight" bloggers, a 12 year old can spew facts. What is pertinent in critical thinking is acquiring the correct interpretation using these facts. Therein lies the error in the above post. A smart man would not miss the skew in such conclusions. And an even smarter man might have predicted such acts of false positive conclusions arising from the results of this vote.

Change the name to Myles Brand Arena. I heard they were pals and all.

Boy I called this one. I'm not sure which is more pathetic; watching half wits create false positives which would be in direct contradiction to their very own obsessive assertions regarding this issue or the glee in which otherwise rational people are celebrating the methodical dismantling of their own identity. After the celebration ends and even the most tireless trumpeter's sounds his last favor in the name of the future of UND athletics, the truth which will resonate in the hearts and minds off all who have come to identify with and love what it is to be a part of the FIGHTING SIOUX culture will be illuminated. In the end thats all we have here. Well that and some really good clarity regarding how the native americans in Sioux country feel about the Sioux name right Sicatoka?

Your history lesson and my history lesson are not contradictory, they cover different aspects of the name fight history. I thought it was you that said the vote would be 95% in favor if it was only about who believed there was nothing wrong with uing the Sioiux name. Doesn't matter who said it. You, me and they know it wouldn't be that high. My point is that I see a graet value in the people of North Dakota speaking in an enumerated medium(a vote). IF we don't vote for the name history may very well write that the name was not supported by the people. I know this is how things work in society. You are wasting your time to argue this point. We kill hundreds of thousands of people for things like figments of our emagination. see "weapons of mass distruction". We decide elections based on smoke screens like flag burning, gay marriage, abortion while corperations have morphed our society into a socialism supported by the very party that denounces socialism itself. This issue is a perfect example, democrats are significantly less supportive of the name in North Dakota. Why? This issue has big money, big power and concervative interest all over it. The democrats should be hammering the big bully NCAA organization. But what ever, the point is people are gullable and easily influenced and to vote to kill the name will open the doors to the influence of propaganda which will very likely revise history to show that the name was voted down by the people because they new it was "hostile and abusive". Speaking of "hostile and abusive" I have a question for you mr History 82Sioux; In either the settlement or the meetings in Indianapolis, I can't remember, didn't the NCAA commit to retract the "hostile and abusive" label regarding our use of the Sioux name? I'm confident something along these lines occurred but I can't recall the specifics?

Hey UNDBIZ, I am assuming you have or are getting a Business degree from UND. I was fortunate enough to have two years of school enrolled in the business department at UND. I therefore know that a business degree at UND requires a couple of accounting classes, some statistics and a few other classes that require math. Given this, could you help out hoody boy here on the flaws in his point while I go wash my face..

Oh sure, the day after the NCAA announced their racest mandate the Spirit Lake Sioux should have rushed to the waiting cameras of the attentive press and denounce the NCAA. It's not like they had to work through an onslought of propaganda which included constant associations between those who supported the name and anti-semitism, Natzism, and white supremacy. You remember the days before the Spirit Lake don't you smart guy? Remeber the flyers stating that Ralph Englestad was a racest and a Nazi supporter don't you. I do. I remember the sports illustrated article, the New York times article, "The sign of the times" segment on nightline. All of that stuff was about as prevalent as the kill the name stuff is today. It is so goddam funney how the one constant in the entire history of the name change is that the Kill the name side has always had such energy and yet it has been from a semmingly different rational over time. It reminds me of how a child argues a point. Relentless barrage of meandering and morphing points until they get their way. Where was the passion from the ulumni association 7 years ago? Where were the TV commercials and the OPEN trips to the tribes? How many times did they write letters to places like St.Clound, Minnesota, Iowa explaining the REALITY of our use of the name? We will live if we vote for the name. As I said it can always be killed later if the Nazi's come onto Columbia ave and start blowing the crap out of our athletic facilites. We can have one vote for the name. 82Sioux says what is the point. He says the vote would be 95% for the name. Well I would say that a vote of 95% for anything would be a historic vote and it would speak to the irrationality and hypocracy of the NCAA's policy. It just might garner some national member support, especially if the press actually reported it. Now this is where the UND administation comes in. Time to advocate for what they should have been for the last decade. ONE TIME!

Hey 82Sioux and UNDBIZ, do you guys have jobs? I am amazed at how you both are CONTSANTLY posting on the Sioux name threads. It's as if this IS your job. Are you two getting paid by the University to brainwash Sioux fans into thinking that if the state of North Dakota votes to keep the name NaZis with machine guns will drive onto the campus with tanks and blow up the athletic department? ...Just an FYI to the casual readers here at SiouxSports.com, Siouxsports.com has ALWAYS had a large contingent of anti Sioux name people blogging. It goes back to the days before the Spirit Lake vote. I would say that historically half of the posts have been anti-name. I recall when Spirit Lakes vote results came in there were a few posts on here asking what all of the anti-name people were going to use as an arguement for getting rid of the name since they were all proven wrong with respect to their assertions that the Sioux people were just one big group of offended natives. ... I know that all of the current name killers will say that they knew at that time that this was all hopeless. I will say that the one thing missing then and now was any conviction by the leadership of UND and the state to assert the wishes of Sprit Lake and North Dakotans. They NEVER showed a disposition of will to keep the name. They perpetually seemed to either be silent or speak in terms that the NCAA would have them. The media did the same. So I say vote no and clearly say to the UND administation and the SBofHE. You have effectively been mandated by the people of the State of North Dakota to perform the duty of advocating for the name we call ourselves. THE SIOUX! IT will be a BIG DEAL if we have to kill it and that time should not be yet. Vote for the name ONCE!!! It is everyone's first opportunity (exception Spirit Lake Memebers)

and that you are.

Seems like the big reality they are faced with is that the University most associated to their tribe is being coherced into killing their name as its nickname. And this is being done under the guise of protecting they themselves from being disrespected. Protected by the very people (NCAA) who will not listen to them, respect them, or honor them. Sounds like it is pretty important for them to have everyone get the fact that they have a great deal of pride in the Sioux name and it offends them to no end that this in not being respected by certain groups like the NCAA and others?! The Spirit Lake Sioux have as big a horse in this race as anyone. So don't try to hard to assert that they are out of touch. and if your insulted, I wonder how they feel about right now? ONE TIME, Let it be about the name!! VOTE NO!!!

I didn't say he was a saint at all. If I would want a saint to lead the fight against the name I would have picked Jimmy Carter. Don't even need to bring him down from the heavens JFK would have gotten it done. He was persuasive. Maybe Fiason is persuasive at those conference AD meetings too?? ya never know.. I completely agree with you.

Thank you for correcting me. Sioux people, //strike native americans// . The Sioux people are a sovern group. Entitled to speak for their name without interference from other groups that are NOT Sioux. ie it's their name. Now talk to me about about how the Sioux people feel.... Ahh I have a great idea. Let's let them speak- ONE TIME about how they feel about the name. Not about the politics or the fear of harm to UND. Just this one time. Have another vote later. And write the damn initiative as a surrender to the NCAA. This time it needs to be a voice of how we feel about the name.l ONE TIME!!

What if we voted to keep the name, do you think Kelly could be a great leader and deal with it persuasively and magnanimously? What if John F. Kennedy came down from the heavens and stood in Kellys position with a conviction to preserve our school post keep the name law. Do you think he would fail at such an endeavor? I personally think not.

yes, but initiatives and referendums are part of our democracy throughout. Tribal government being an obvious exception to the rule. Given that this tenant is not in place at Standing Rock and despite attempts by the people there to get a voice heard then there in lies at least one injustice perpetrated on American citizens. And that injustice has lead us to this. Spirit Lake did approve the name in time. But we all know this so at this point you say life isn't fair and we need to deal with it. Makes sense for sure. I couldn't agree more with that value. There is just one thing though. Another tenant of a healthy society is a resistance to inequity. You shouldn't always take it. Sometimes you fight for what is right. Sometimes it costs you. It can cost you anything from $1.00 or a lollypop all the way to your life. It is simple risk vs reward analysis. In this case we are talking about Athletic department risk vs keeping a large part of our identity. That is what is in the pot. Now you will say we have no cards left to play and you may be correct. I say play the vote card and I think there are a few other cards to be played. Another big concern is the fact that if we vote to keep the name, then how does the school and the other leaders future disposition and actions (or lack there of) effect the future outcome. That to me is the bigger question. And I have a STRONG desire to make them show their hand. Voting for the name is the ONLY way we will be able to MAKE them do what we have always wanted and most of us believe they have not thus far done. Period. I say make the play. You know there is always room for another initiative later if the athletic roots of UND start to rot. Let's just take this ONE TIME to vote to actually have a vote of all people of the state of North Dakota. ONE TIME where we all speak to what WE KNOW IS RIGHT. If we vote no because of fear of sanctions then it can never be known how we really felt about the name. It could INCORRECTLY be argued that people didn't think the name was appropriate or thought it racist. ONE VOTE. TELL the NCAA the truth. Don't let them off the moral hook. This is especially true for the native American communities. We will see how they feel about the name. ONE VOTE! We all deserve it. ONE TIME, after years and years being denied the truth in our voice. ONE TIME!

This is a great consideration. After 10 years, one time for the people. One time!

I meant to ask 82siouxguy but since you threw out inequity, is that the strongest word you find fitting? And yes inequity is cenral to the very being of life in the universe..

Just for clarification, you do believe that the current costs completely set aside, having to give up the Sioux name is an injustice correct ?

This is exactly what I was addressing in that "rediculous" post. The hostility on this forum toward anyone who suggests that we stand on the name is getting out of hand. I support the continued fight against the NCAA. My post you called rediculous began and ended with a concession to the kill the name side which acknowledged my understanding of the position. Beyond my support of the name, I feel compelled to set this debate right. For nowhere in an honorable debate is bullying and asset and the aggressive disposition of the kill the name side is starting to become a very poisonous coolaid around here.