iramurphy

Ok Fetch,I'll buy. Would be worth the price of a few of your favorite cold ones to see if you really exist. (don't bring your guns though).

Don't tell me someone has let you have guns, Fetch!!!!

Dog crap and the name are not related. My point is that the host doesn't want us coming in to their house with something they don't wish to clean up, but having said that, I stand corrected I could have used a better analogy. Thanks for the heads up.

So I get what the name has done for Native Americans. (Programming, marketing value, etc.). What has the name done for UND??? Over the years unless someone has tried to take it away no one has really paid much attention to the name. We use it as a logo and name. It has cost us a lot of money, heartache and criticism. We have put up with that over the last 45 years. It isn't that those from the outside don't understand, they don't believe us and they don't care. In their world, they don't wish to associate with this particular ethnic group and have the legal authority to dictate that we can't either. I believe that is a biased policy but they don't care about my opinion anymore than you do. Those who could have helped us were too late. Now they are willing to hurt UND athletics to try and recapture what they didn't care enough about to act on when it would have made a difference. You aren't going to be part of the conference the athletes, coaches and UND is. That conference wants us to get our act together before we come on board and that isn't asking too much. Fetch if you have been walikng around in dog !@#$, it isn't unreasonable for your host to expect you to take your shoes off or clean them before you enter their house.

Dave, What they do is not illegal. There is no law preventing them from doing what they do. Their authority has been challenged in courts before and the courts decided in their favor. The NCAA is not a government entity. It is a private organization that makes their own rules. We don't like the rules and I understand that you think this is so important to some that we should drop athletics rather than play by their rules, but stick to the facts. What they do is not illegal.

Not sure how you can even have an opinion when you are so misinformed. The Great West is disbanding. Who is the dumbass who tells you stupid stuff like the sanctions are temporary? Anyone who is smart enough to use a computer should be smarter than that. The only people I can say "OK I disagree but you are entitiled to that opinion", are those who have a clear understanding of the facts and that UND would need to move to the NAIA to have any intercollegiate athletics and still think calling our athletic teams the Fighting Sioux is more important.They don't care if our hockey team sinks to a level of those teams who make the playoffs every 25 years and our other athletic teams play Dickinson State, Minot State, or Jamestown College. If you don't get that, then you shouldn't have forged an opinion quite yet. Get the facts first. Losing Track Meets, Home hockey playoffs for women or losing recruits in all sports are not small. Ask any coach across the country if they can afford to have a couple of down recruiting years and everyone of them will tell you they can't. Don't be so goofy!

Where will they find you to tell you?? (I doubt that would even make a difference). The people who matter most with regards to the NCAA sanctions are the UND athletes, coaches, students, boosters, fans, University employees, Alumni and the Grand Forks and N.Dak. communities. Taht does include our reservations, but they don't have the biggest stake in this issue and they didn't care enough about it to speak out when in 2005 they could have stated their support and we would not be sanctioned. There was nothing you or I could have done because the NCAA makes the rules.This issue is about the name for the athletic teams. No more and no less. Why would you conclude someone would be spineless because they don't wish to spend time and resources screwing a dead horse (or pissing into the wind if you prefer)? Give us an opponent and something on the line and most of us will fight. Who do you wish to fight? The NCAA says they are not going to fight, they are going to declare themselves rulers and make the rules. No one to fight! (Not sure most of us care to be called spineless by people who probably have never had to lay it on the line when it counted).

No, the name doesn't stay. We are talking about athletic teams, not the rights of the oppressed around the world. If UND is to remain one of the finest institutions of higher education in the upper midwest, we also benefit from quality atheltic and music programs. If we don't have a conference for virtually all sports and we handicap hockey, then we are placing barriers to the success of the programs. The name is irrelevant to that success and always has been. It has been a big part of what we as athletes and fans identify with but the traditions and the energy from the fans is about the teams, players and our ability as fans to identify with their successes or even failures. we will still be able to do that after the name is gone. We will still wear whatever jersey or logo we wish. The enemy is not UND, the SBoHE, or for that matter even most of those who prefer to keep the name. It is the NCAA and we are in their yard playing with their ball and we play by their rules. The vast majority of UND fans and alumni when they are given the facts, see this and are concerned that too many well meaning people, led by those who have strong but misguided convictions will lead to a disaster. With regards to the rights of our Native American friends, they didnt' move on the issue when it would have taken only one tribe, nor in the three years they had after the NCAA gave us a temporary reprieve. They have sat on the sidelines until their only recourse is litigation. They need to leave UND uot of it. I hope they succeed agaisnt the NCAA but the courts have ruled over the years that the NCAA is a private club and you don't ahve to belong. Play by thier rules or join the NAIA. Anyone who thinks hockey as we know it will survive NCAA sanctions is fooling themselves. That is OK just don't try and fool others with unfounded statements. Go Sioux! Easy to still say, the NCAA can't stop any of us from our right to free speech. I will wear my Sioux logos this weekend at the hockey games. Won't matter to our team or the NCAA. Just isn't a priority to our teams. It is more so an issue with our hockey franternity because of the gratitude we all have for the Englestad family and their gifts to UND. The arena next door for BB and VB is also a gift from the Englestad family.

Joe Mollberg scored 23 against Grand Rapids last week and Brian Labatt rejected a couple of key shots from their 6'7" post player last week to lead Detroit Lakes to a win over one of the top ranked teams in Minnesota. With those points, Mollberg becomes the leading scorer in DL history. Earlier this year Labatt became the leading rebounder in DL history. These two guys could be pretty special for UND in the years to come. Both great kids and great athletes. (Mollberg's girlfriend needs 2 points to hit the 1000 point mark in Thursday's playoff game against TRF to become one of the leading scorers in DL girls history. She is the daughter of former UND All-American FB player Paul Muckenhirn and she also will attend UND but won't be playing FB).

I was told that one of the UND FB alumni was buying them.

It's that simple only for the simple minded, David.

Has nothing to do with integrity. There are people on both sides of this issue, even those radicals on both sides who have integrity. The minunderstanding of this issue and associating the importance of this name or a fight with a private organization making rules we don't like is not the same as the civil war, the civil rights movement, or the atrocities of WWII. There are those with no integrity but not because of their stance on this issue. You want to take a stance for what is right, how about taking a stance against the politicians who are using UND as a pawn in their private battle to gain control of the SBoHE? Keep in mind the constitution does in fact protect the SBoHE for this exact reason.

Watched game on NBC Cable Sports network. One of more impressive games from Sioux in years. Similar to last year in Regions when we beat Denver 6-1. Outhustled, out hit and clearly outplayed Denver until the last 5 minutes. Lamoureaux's and Pattyn's penalties were inexcusable when we should have had a power play earlier in game . Junior hockey crap. We went into a defensive shell after our fourth goal and lost our edge and our focus. We should have stayed agressive. Don't know if that was our plan or it just happened. We got out of position defensively on their second goal and Lamoureaux left his man on the face off on Zucker's goal at the end to leave Eidsness against a great shooter at point blank range. Where did he think he was going? It will be interesting to see if we can start tonight like we did last night rather than start how we finished, This team plays the rest of the year like they did most of this game and they will be tough for anyone to beat.They play like they did the last 5 minutes and take stupid penalties it will be tough. This time of year we can't have those 5 minute lapses.

Then you will be stuck at home watching the Raiders on TV. If UND gets sanctioned and we lose recruits (evidence presented by Lennon that is already occuring}, we don't get into the Big Sky ( I think we probably will, but there is a real threat as outlined by Fullerton), we lose games.(aleady occuring) then you won't have a team to call the Fighting Sioux. UND alumni aren't going to spend money to support an NAIA school which seems to be what you prefer. UND fans would rather see quality athletic events in a quality conference than watch UND play Crookston, Minot State, U of Mary etc. Not sure why it seems so difficult to see that. Maybe after watching the Raiders the last few years you see those schools as a step up?

That would work for those who sold their soul to the Fighting Sioux in the first place and very few of us are that stupid. You talk as if the NCAA didn't give us an out. They did and we didn't take advantage of that in 2005 when we only needed one tribe for the ok.. You were likely sitting in your living room watching your Raiders because you weren't doing anything to help the rest of us. They didn't "back us into a corner" they simply told us the party is by invitation only and because it is their party, there is a dress code and we have to wear a tuxedo. We asked if we could wear a suit and tie and they said we could beut we had to show up on time and we had to have a date. We didnt' show up on time with the date so they said then we had to wear a tuxedo. We had the opportunity to come to their party as invited and neither UND, the State of N.Dak.nor the Tribal councils showed up properly dressed and on time. We showed up late with a sport coat and turtle neck and no date and asked if we could get in. They said OK but then we had to go home and dress in a suit and tie and bring two dates but had to be there before midnight. We didn't do that either. Now we sit outside looking in and we are no longer welcome on those terms. We can still party with these folks but we are going to have to wear the tuxedo and begging or threatening to crash their party doesn't work. I tried to make a simple analogy for the simple folks who don't get it. This has nothing to do with the ultimate sacrifice. If you really believe that Dave, put down the remote and get out and explore the world. Don't forget to turn the tV off.

No it wouldn't. We are better off in the Big Sky. So would the other Dakota Schools in the long run, but time will tell.There is more flexibility there and we also need to be prepared to move FB up if the opportunity arises. If Montana goes, we should go. Not going to happen in the near future, but we can't get caught short like we did before. There are a lot of kids who like the idea of going to a smaller school in a smaller community and competing at the highest level. UND and NDSU need to be prepared to make that move if the opportunity arises.

What about North Dakota "Spirit". It embodies the Spirit of the Fighting Sioux Spirit and the name could have meaning to our Native American brethren. It embodies the Spirit of those settlers and pioneers who braved the elements and killed Bison to survive the frozen cold of the prarie. Whether or not we make it the Fighting Spirit or simply Spirit could be food for thought. Spirit would embody the Spirit of those who have come before us. Ira Friendberg. Red Jarrett. Jake Stocker. Fritz Pollard. Arjan Gelling. Not just Cliff Purpur but Al Purpur who took care of the athletic fields and the hockey arena when we played at the "old barn". The Pudenz sisters and Jenny Crouse and Sherry Kleinsasser. It would embody not only the spirit of John Noah and Ralph Englestad but also chester Fritz and Kenny Hyslop. It would embody the Spirit of the fans like the Burfennings and Jack Gray. It would remind us that guys like Jeff "Jeff-Jeff" Anderson who was the consumate Sioux fan and although had special needs was one of the first donors when money was raised for the first Englestad Arena. It would embody the Spirit of baseball players like Gary Royal and Corey Nyhus and the Koch brother and Bruce Daucsavage. The wrestlers and Swimmers and Cross Country and Track athletes who were All-Americans or simply role players who helped make those All Americans who they are. . It would embody the Spirit of those who have fought hard for the name and still fight for it. We could get Ben Brien the artist who did the logo to redo one with that Spirit in mind. If the NCAA were to ever relent we could revert back to the Fighting Sioux if we get the blessing of the tribes and an assurance we won't face penalties. In a way we stick it to the NCAA by incorporating the culture of all of those people of the state including Native Americans and our students, athletes, coaches and fans that have made this university and the athletic teams great.

no

Obviously, Honest ABE met you Fetch. How the hell old are you???

What you don't seem to understand is that Hakstol stood by his convictions. His contract was not a factor in his statement. He is not in favor of losing the name and logo and he isn't being forced to make a statement. He is smart enough to see the harm these sanctions will cause UND hockey and therfore he stated that. He has spoken out in order to defend his program. Dale Lennon has confirmed the issue has UND FB in recruiting. Anyone who thinks hockey recruiting is not hurt by this are fools. Hakstol is also aware of that fact. There is no one in there right mind who understands intercollegiate athletics that doesn't understand sanctions by the NCAA will hurt UND hockey and UND athletics. Not being in the Big Sky or similar conference will destroy UND athletics. Calling people sheep or insinuating Hakstol was coerced is foolish. I read the letter from the SL folks and I thought it was well written. They are being told that UND officials are making up the real threat to the Big Sky membership and they are told that the NCAA will cave in if the State of N.DAk. would force the name on UND. What they are being told is not true. Just like the NCAA believed the crap they were told by the Jeanottes and Longies about the name being hostile and abusive, these folks are believing the crap they are told by the Frank Burgraffs and name supporters. Simply put the NCAA gave UND the same chance that FSU, Utah and Central Michigan took advantage of and that was support by one named trib in 2005. Don't come now and blame UND or UND officials because the tribes didnt' want to help back then There is ample evidence that if UND brings the name back the same cast of Characters will be picketing and lobbying against the name. UND needs to move on. All of the things UND stands for is unchanged and UND can still provide the same programming and advantages for our State's Native American students.

Wrong. They may schedule whomever they wish and all they need to do is state that FSU, Utah or whomever are not under sanctions by the NCAA.

No, they may choose to schedule whomever they wish. It isn't a legal issue.

That would be great. He believes that I am sure, but all of that could happen without forcing the name issue on UND. Too many factors out of UND's control to risk the future of UND hockey and UND athletics on the opinion of a few people. The NCAA wouldn't relent when legislation was passed by the legislature. Get Standing Rock to relent, then we can start figuring our if we can then get the NCAA to move back on this issue. In the meantime, our teams and athletes have new conferences to join and games to win. The name will have to be a lower priority until we know for sure we will be held harmless.

Burgraff's statement is another example of the misinformation some in his group have been spreading when they took the petitions around. First of all, if you look at the the list of contributors to UND athletics published in the UND hockey program, it does not contain Frank's name for some reason. His comments about Dave Hakstol is why I would never go to war with a guy like Frank. You can't count on him to have your back. Frank takes a shot at Hakstol for stating the obvious. Frank would not be privy to negotiations between UND and Hakstol. A government employer could face complaints were they to make an employee make public statements concerning polictical issues such as this. He didn't have to say anything and his future at UND is not in jeopardy. What might gain credibility for Frank would be if he had countered Dave's opinion with facts and he didn't do that. Hakstol has the best interest of UND and UND hockey in mind. It is obvious Frank Burgraff is uninformed and does not have the best interest of either UND nor UND hockey as his top priority. He uses a combination of the emotions and affection people have for the name, with the disdain we have for the NCAA, with rumors and partial facts and supposition, to confuse some and convince others that his measures will somehow defeat the NCAA, the SBoHE and allow UND to retain the name without penalty or harm and that is just not accurate. Taking a shot at David Hakstol for speaking the truth tells me a lot about the character of one of our former (very mediocore) hockey players. He won't let facts or truth confuse him as he plows blindly forward. What an embarassment.

Appreciate Dave's support and insight. He sums things up pretty clearly, the threat to UND and UND athletics has become too serious and the name and logo and what we like about it, does not out weigh the risk to UND and UND athletics including hockey.