iramurphy

I agree let the Bison have the first game, then alternate. Might be good to play in Bismarck but I don't think their Stadium at Bismarck State (or whatever they are called) is big enough. They should play WBB or MBB in Bismarck but that is for a different thread. I wouldn't take it our of state. You would also take the revenues for Businesses in Fargo or Grand Forks that they won't want to give up.

You are correct. As long as UND was D2 they did not get their share of Frozen Four revenues. We lost about $400,000 per year. the expense money UND received fro the NCAA didn't usually cover our costs. The D2 issue vs D1 issue is irrelevant because we would still have the same sanctions regardless of which Division we are in. They are both NCAA. Would there still be an NCC? With SDSU, USD and the AC all gone maybe, probably not but we woudl give up the home playoff games which is a big deal for FB whether you are D1 or D2. D2 became so watered down and was losing scholarships. With 14,000 students and the history of UND athletics and academic excellence, we outgrew D2. Dolphinswin: UND is a hockey school but not hockey only. Get the WBB or MBB or FB into the tournament and you will learn that UND will support any successful program and especially hockey, BB, or FB. Force the logo and name issue on UND and you will learn we are not a "hockey school" we are a University with a great hockey program with a great tradition. The great tradition of UND hockey does not need nor has it ever needed the name for its success and tradition. How many National titles have we won since the team moved into the Ralph??? How many did UND win when they played in the old quonset? How many did they win playing in the old Ralph that didn't have the name and logos everywhere? I want a successful hockey program a lot more than a name or logo that without NCAA approval hurts my hockey team. We will end up a bunch or rubes with a great logo and name and beautiful arena and no where to go.

Coach you are correct you didn't say that, but others have. I also believe your comments about Ralph and what he said are correct.

The NCAA has said repeatedly they can to live with it. They can afford to because they lose nothing. We can't afford to, because we lose too much, maybe everything. Why would anyone in their right mind want to subject our hockey teams (forget the other teams for now) to those sanctions? Don't forget the NCAA, as part of their policy, also encourages member institutions not to schedule teams on their sanction list. Over 400 member schools voted to support their policy. The list is growing. Anyone who thinks that the scheduling part of this sanction by itself won't hurt UND hockey is living in a bubble that does not allow logical discussion or thinking. You can't have ever coached or recruited at the college level. There are kids out there who do factor in who is on our schedule. Dont' forget how pissed we get when we lose a kid to Juniors in Canada. Don't kid yourself, every college hockey coach in the country with an IQ above 50 will use this as a tool against us. They can tell kids anything they wish about how this will hurt our scheduling. If you are going to continue to support the name despite NCAA sanctions then you are going to be part of a group of people who set UND hockey back 50 years and the Ralph in all its glory will not be enough to neutralize the damage. The only way to fight the NCAA is by backing the litigation by the Spirit Lake tribe. I don't know if they will be able to force the NCAA to review and change their discriminatory policy against Native American names and logos, but changing the State consitution or trying to force UND to keep the name in face of these sanctions and penalities is not in the best interest of our hockey team and especially not our University or athletic dept. The high regard we hold our hockey team is not shared by everyone else in the country nor even in the hockey world. There are those who despise us because of our success and there are those who feel because we are from N. Dak. we are irrelevant. We all want to fight the injustice of the NCAA but sitting with an athletic dept. and hockey team in shambles with sword in hand standing on our principles is the wrong approach. We need to somehow live to fight another day. If we go down this path led by people who don't have a stake in this fight or have an axe to grind with either the SBoHE or UND we are going to get burned and once that happens it will be too late. This name issue and issues with the SBoHE or legislature need to be separated from UND athletics so UND can move on with what is more important to UND and that is the viability of our hockey team and athletic dept. Those of you who don't care about atheltics, it will affect the viability or our University if we end up losing the standing and prestige our athletic teams now have. I have heard too many times that once we stand up to the NCAA or once we get a tribe to support us or once we get the legislature to pass a law etc,. the NCAA will back down and the conferences around the country wil want to take us in. That isn't happening and in fact no one other than Spirit Lake has stepped up to the plate. I appreciate that, but had they done so in 2005, we would have met the criteria the other schools did to keep the name. It is too late for that now.

That's why we are screwed.

Over 400,000 hits on this. The kid is a senior at Detroit Lakes and a member of the White Earth reservation. He was a hell of a FB player but some idiot convinced him to quit FB and focus on hockey. I dont' know who he scored against but it was an away game. There were some nasty comments about his hair which is part of his culture. He also competes in Native American dancing competition. Good kid, good student. Pretty good hockey player on a below average team. Goal reminds me of Evan Trupp's move in the Final Five and his recent goal in his minor league game.

A couple of things that need to be clarified. First of all, Ralph did not get Baker fired. The SBoHE made the decision and it wasn't related to the name and logo nor to Ralph's gift. Ralph's gift never required UND to keep the name and logo. After he was told it was ok and then later Kuppy balked, he got pissed and threatened to walk away from the unfinished arena. The SBoHE had their meeting scheduled before Ralph sent his famous letter and they already planned to direct UND to keep the name and logo. That may have had something to do with pressure from UND supporters and Alumni and a reported threat from Dean Blais to quit if UND dumped the name. Wanless wasn't fired by the SBoHE. However he ended his employment, it was UND's doing, not the SBoHE. I do not know if Ralph had anything to do with Wanless leaving UND. I am not stating Ralph didn't make statements others said he made, I am saying the decisions by the SBoHE weren't due to pressure from Ralph. Anyone who serves on a public board like this would know it is poor form to bend to threats from wealthy benfactors. To state the SBoHE made a decision about a UND president based on dislike by a benefactor I do not believe is accurate.

I agree with you but short of the litigation by the Spirit Lake Tribe they don't seem to care what we think.

The NCAA adopted the policy in 2005 which affected 19 institutions using Native American imagery. These schools were given until 2/1/2006 to obtain consent from a "namesake tribe". Two schools, Illinois and San Diego State were given exemptions because the Illinois tribe and Aztecs had become extinct. (I agree the policy is already a bit hypocritical). Florida State, Utah, Central Michigan all complied with the NCAA directive and thus face no sanctions. Pembroke apparently has permission or was given an exemption, i read the comments on our blogs but I didn't look that one up. The other schools are now in compliance. There was not a requirement initially to obtain permission from two tribes. UND and the State of N. Dak. sued in 2006 and would have won that initial lawsuit because the NCAA didnt' follow there own policy. They have since changed their bylaws so this policy will now stand up in court. In order to get an additional 3 years to obtain permission UND had to get the permission of two tribes. That was the trade off to get the extra time. The agreement is binding between the NCAA, UND and the SBoHE. We have not been able to get consent from Standing Rock and they are not receptive to either the SBoHE or UND attempts to sway that vote. The council claims they have voted against approval or voted against considering to vote on the issue 7 or 8 times and question the lack of respect shown them as a sovereign nation. In addition they have had two council elections in the last 4 years and the people of Standing Rock have twice elected councils with a majority of members who oppose giving consent. SBoHE Haugne stated that 6 of 8 districts at Standing Rock have voted to support the councils position. The petition passed attempts a referendum to force UND to keep the name and this will be declared unconstitutional by the N. Dak Supreme Court. The danger is the referendum that threatens to change the constitution. That could be a disaster for UND and UND athletics. UND must belong to a conference and until we hear from the Big Sky that we are in, we must take the warnings from Fullerton seriously. In addition the NCAA member schools voted 400 something to 6 to support the 2006 policy banning the name. The NCAA leadership has made it clear to UND and State of N.DAk. officials that they are not going to change their stance. They point out they have an agreement between the NCAA, the State of N. Dak. and the SBoHE negotiated by the AG of N.Dak. Anyone naive enough to think the NCAA is going to fold save successful litigation from the Spirit Lake Tribe? The rhetoric about the Fighting Irish, Vikings etc. I believe should be valid. You either prohibit use of ethnic groups or you don't and you certainly shouldn't be able to single out one group. Unfortunately the US Supreme Court has previously ruled the NCAA can make up their own rules about membership simialr to your country club which can kick you out if you play golf without a shirt, throw your clubs, use vulgar language or other club rules that are unique to the club. Thus far they have sided with the NCAA when it comes to the issue of whether or not they are a monopoly. In essence they can take their ball and go home or let us play in their yard only by their rules. We can take it or leave it.

"Coming where Mollberg came from"?? He came from Detroit Lakes. The head coach has been Minnesota Coach of the Year and part of 4 State Championship Teams. They run both veer looks and a spread look. One of the better High School programs in the upper midwest. In the "down years" they are still winning 7-9 games per year. Not all against weaker competition. Kids have excellent HS weight training program and college coaches and the kids themselves feel they are well prepared for college. Having said that, you are correct, he will be better off sitting a year and learning under Hanson (as well as the other QB's) and I believe he is very excited to do that.

One might argue that UND didn't do enough but it is a fact that UND and SBoHE officials were stonewalled by His Horse is Thunder and other Tribal Officials when the SBoHE was still trying to keep the name. I can't tell you if they attempted to speak with individuals or just the Triabl Chair but there were efforts made. Easy to say now all it would have taken was UND to find these people "sitting on the fence" and convince them They had every opportunity to call for a meeting of the Tribal Council with UND and every opportunity to speak out publically in favor of gathering more information. I would guess there is more that people at UND and other name supporters could have done but to say if only UND sould have ......... doesn't cut it. There are a lot of things supporters at SR and SL could have done to move the process ahead on their end too. Bottome line, we are where we are. The SR people can still step up to the plate and be counted. It is their reservation and their tribal council. Should they be inclined I still believe if they join with SL they could make a difference with the NCAA. The legislature and UND don't seem to be able to and this new attempt at legislation doesn't hold any promise with respects to moving the NCAA off of their position..

Wanless cleaned up a financial mess. There are a lot of people who think he did a very good job. He certainly is more articulate than Faison. UND athletics had good success under Terry. The hockey team had a couple of tough years around the time Gino left. There is another story that he could have remained hockey coach but the mess in the athletic dept. needed to be cleaned up and people were starting to grumble about hockey. I would be cautious about assuming Wanless was run out of town or that Ralph got everyone fired. Ralph disliked Kuppy and he couldn't get him fired. I am not saying Wanless was or wasn't fired, and I'm not saying Ralph was or wasn't able to move Baker or Wanless out but we are turning rumor and coincidence into facts. Not sure I have seen or heard solid evidence but I certainly see the coincidence. I don't believe Gino was a Wanless fan but it is a good reminder, no matter how popular you are as a coach, even in hockey, you answer to the AD and the president. If Ralph was that powerful how was it he couldn't save Gino???

That is as long as UND is in the Big Sky or a conference. He said we would have a lot of trouble without a conference.

Well, thanks for setting us all straight. I knew we could count on an AC fan to set us straight. It wasn't a mistake to quit playing you in FB at the time. Had we played NDSU when we were D2 it would have been held against us and the one year we likely wouldnt' have made the playoffs at all. That has been rpeviously documented and discussed. It was a mistake to quit playing the AC in the other sports. Tim is in the Alumni Office and I am not sure he is informed of all of the ramifications of the D2 FB playoffs.

I am a die hard UND hockey fan but also a die hard FB, VB, MBB, WBB, Swimming, Baseball, Track and University fan. This is as important for hockey's future as it is for FB, BB etc. Some don't see it because they refuse to believe what those in the know are telling them. Frank Burgraff is maybe a hockey only guy. He doesn't remember or probably doesn't care about all of the Sioux FB, BB, Baseball, Track coaches who went to bat for Gino when Miller was not going to give hime a shot at the hockey job. Those guys are not UND hockey nor is anyone person. UND hockey is about all of those guys, coaches, cheerleaders, fans who supported the team over the years to enable them to be in a position to win 7 championships. I will remember Frank's stance and how it is hurting UND but I don't want anything bad to happen to hockey. I didn't like Haks email to support the flawed legislation but I want him t continue as our coach and I hope he wins 3 or 4 championships before he is done. I hope people closer to him than we are will remind him how UND athletics is a family who have benfited from the successes of each other over the years and we may need his help lobbying hockey fans to defeat this measure. I would guess he speaks to other college coaches who see no problems with the NCAA sanctions. UND administrators speak to college presidents and AD's and seem to be learning otherwise. This is a University matter and it is as important to the future of hockey as it is to the other sports. We simply can't afford to be sanctioned by the NCAA.

That is Minnesota High School League policy not the NCAA.

Best post you have ever posted. It reminds me though of a term people in the miitary referred to those who remained behind when the bullets started to fly yet were wanting to tell the combat soldier how things should be done. They never had anything to lose and didn't have a dog in the fight, so to speak. The were referred to as REMF's. Rear Echelon............. you can figure out the rest. There were and are many support soldiers who do their job in those rear areas with courage and strength but they don't dictate to the combat soldier what they think they should do. They make sure they have the resources to complete the mission successfully. In this case UND needs the Big Sky. We would love to keep the name but we don't need it. We need to make sure UND has all of the resources to be succesful. The membership in the Big Sky is a higher priority than the name.

Faison has said it publically and privately Kelly isn't opposed to the name as long as we don't have sanctions. He was wearing logo gear less than a year ago. These two guys are not the enemy nor are they the problem. You might try going in a meeting these guys. (leave your pink lady friend in the pick-up). Until you hear them say I doubt you will believe anyone else. The enemy is the NCAA and the problem is the entry to the Big Sky. If we had to live with the sanctions until the SL litigation works its way through the system it would be a bitter pill to swallow but we would be OK. I'm afraid it would hurt the hockey teams more than the other sports because of scheduling and the advantage of last line change when you are playing away. . Home field advantage in BB and FB are more psychological because of the fan support and that can be overcome. Baseball also benefits from batting last but I don't know how they choose there playoff sites. We cannot exist without a conference. We aren't Notre Dame and they have had to bite the bullet in most sports except for FB which for now still stands alone. We can't do that.

Sorry but you leave out some important points. There is nothing about the Fighting Sioux name that the Native American people can't continue to celebrate and that includes continued use of the name and logo as they wish. There are a group of Native people who are fighting very hard to help keep the name but that number, over time, has not been overwhelming. The most important things UND does for Native Americans is the programming that UND offers and the help for Native American students that has been there for many years. I tutored Native American students in the mid 1970's as part of a program that was not available to all students. UND has reached out for many years to the reservation communities with outreach programs in many of the academic areas, especially medicine. One of our graduating seniors last year was offered a scholarhip worth almost 1/2 of his costs. He was less than a 3.0 student. He was offered this because he was an enrolled member of the White Earth reservation. There are a lot of things UND does for Native American students that are more important and have been there for many years before some of you folks were born. If you believe that we can't do anything for Native American students on and off of our campus without calling our athletic teams the Fighting Sioux then I would suggest reviewing all of the ooferings UND has. Tim O'Keefe doesn't owe an explanation, the NCAA does. If there are Native people who think losing our atheltic programs is in there best interest then they do not understand the effect intercollegiate athletics has on the University. I seriously doubt the majority would wish to harm UND athletics and that does include our hockey team. No one will tell Native American students or fans to "go away". How do you make such a stretch?? We will continue to provide some of the most comprehensive academic and counseling programs available to Native American students andwhere in the nation. That is a higher priority than a name at all costs.

You seem to miss the point that UND is not negotiating on equal footing with the NCAA. The NCAA holds all of the cards right now. It is there little fraternity and they make their won rules. UND's current management and the state legislature attempted other ways ( we passed legislation forcing UND to keep the name, after UND was trying to comply with the agreement, We asked for more time because the Standing Rock Tribal Council won't let their people decide on the issue. The clear answer was that state legislation is irrelevant to the NCAA and the agreement requires permission from both tribes. The one area we might get them to copromise on is the fact that we also didn't meet the deadline in order to keep the name without sanctions but even that might be wishful thinking. NDSU and University of Mary fans, who are the other state schhols with NCAA afiliation need to be wary of the state passing this into law. You don't want to find out too late that they are able to declare an entire state sanctioned for state laws whether that be the state flag or a state law invilving a minority group. That would be as big of a disaster for them as this is for us. I am not aware of any move on the part of the NCAA that they would consider this because I ahve no idea what they are up to. As a fan of intercollegiate atheltics in the state of N.Dak. I would make sure we vote this measure down. That won't keep us from reviving the name at a future date, but none of our schools can afford to have long term sanctions by the NCAA and we can't afford to take the chance.

UND has not made any promise to Ralph it didn't keep. Big Sky doesn't care about the name it cares about the sanctions UND faces so it would not be OK with that plan. The Ralph was set up for UND athletics for the future and does not depend on UND keeping the name. That would be safe. The rest of what makes UND athletics is not safe until we either get the name approved by the NCAA and the sanctions are lifted or we drop the name.

Nice comeback,. "whatever". You have no idea what or why Kelly is doing with this issue. You seem to need someone to blame and Kelly and the adminsitration are some of your targets. They could have done things differently along the way and probably could have done some things better but you take a lot of shots at guys when they can't defend themselves nor correct the inaccuracies you continue to blog. You can hide behind a blog and make claims as inaccurate as most of the rest of the stuff you post regarding UND. I am too old to be a tough guy and I would never waste my time threatening you or anyone else on a blog. Who said I didn't like you? Your comments entertain me and obviously others. Kinda like watching cartoons when I was a kid. We can laugh and don't have to think. Reminds me of Graham Cracker. That isn't you under a different name is it Cracker? Not like you? A guy with a fetish for pink colored sheep? I find you fascinating and get a kick out of your posts. When we blog goofy stuff we can't get our grundies in a bundle if people don't agree.

That is the opinion of small minded people who never competed in athletics (if in anything). Normal people can see the harm this will cause our hockey team and the University. Those of you who have no clue of what it takes to recruit kids, run the equipment room, provide medical coverage, get these kids to class etc. will continue to spew ignorant crap like this. This proves there are a few people out there who can cower behind a blog and throw insults at others and is small minded and self centered enough not to care about the women's hockey team, the students, the administration, and the other athletes. Turn off the Oprah channel long enough to watch the UND women's game and you will learn about what tradition is. That is the same tradition for UND hockey and other sports and no one talks about the Sioux name or logo because it is meaningless when you walk into the locker room or onto the ice, court or field of competition. Tradition is about the relationships, teammates, coaches and the experience. People with opinions such as this are meaningless to UND hockey and always will be. The conclusion and this thread are evidence you don't see the big picture. .

O'Keefe who wsa also a hockey player and certainly more of an insider than any of us on this board makes it clear. This is a problem for UND and UND hockey. UND hockey starts the transition to a new conference next year and things are not going as smoothly as we would like. At one time we hoped we might get some Hockey East schools and Notre Dame. Didn't happen. Hockey is too important at UND to lose any more ground than we have too. This is not hockey vs UND, or Vs FB , or vs all other sports. O'Keefe makes that pretty clear.

Moderators. Any thought to combing all 6 or 7 blogs into one? Seems that anything to do with the name, petitions, Big Sky, Kelly etc are basically the same subject.