iramurphy

Ralph and his family cared for more than UND hockey and this has been generous to UND. He wasn't a fan of college admin types and certainly wasn't one to suffer fools. He did care for UND and the agreement with UND to lease the arena for $1 per year then the arena goes to UND after the 20 yrs (I think). There is nothing in that agreement that requires UND to keep the name or logo. The strength of UND's outside financial support comes from UND alumni. The community support is also important. ( our friends to the south benefit more from the Fargo community as oppsed to thier alumni). The name issue didn't get solved during Ralph's lifetime nor did either Tom Clifford nor Earl Strinden get the issue solved. This has been going on for a long time and now that it threatens UND hockey scheduling and the Bif Sky membership it must go. Fetch, you ever played any sport aboce the middle school level? I'm not saying those who have done so are better fans, but they sure will have a better understanding of the implications of this problem and they certainly prefer winning and championships to the name and logo. You seem to think the name and logo are more important. WE canb't allow UND to become a glorified community college so we can keep the name and logo. The donors like Ralph are important but so are the rest of the donors who give what they can when they can. It would be very unwise to piss off the UND Baseball, MBB, WBB, track, FB, tennis, golf and the hockey alumni smart enough to see the implications of the future problems with the hockey schedule. Anyone who thinks Al Carlson did us a favor is naive. He did this as a calculated risk and for political gain hoping his support of the name and even his disrespectful and unjust criticism of UND officials will garner him votes in the future. He is an NDSU jock sniffer who has been laughing with his teammaker pals at how he screwed us while at the same time posturing his own political future in a favorable light with those of us who would prefer to keep the name.

Good post. Funny how I don;t see Frank's name among the big donors to the athletic department. Maybe he uses a different name or vehicle. Frank took a cheap shot at UND officials without knowing what the hell he was talking about. Disagree with Kelly or Faison but get the facts straight.

The "people and the legislature" limited UND's options and created an untenable situation which forces UND to either suffer the consequences (which we can't afford to do) or else or fight our own legislature. The legislation has no effect on the NCAA and thus has not righted the wrong but has placed the future of UND athletics and especially the Big Sky membership and the schedule for future hockey games in jeopardy. How is any of tha t worth the name and logo? You and I have no influence over the NCAA and neither does our state legislature. This legislation has done nothing to forward the cause of the name but it has caused UND to be placed in a risky position as it pertains to conference membership for many sports and future scheduling for all sports. How much of that don't some understand and how is the name worth the risk at this late date. If we can get the tribes to change position then I am all for it but the rhetoric here does nothing to forward the cause.

They have done so, and that is why we have the settlement we do. The NCAA would have lost the initial lawsuit because they didn't follow there own rules but then would have won the second round. The settlement gave UND enough time. It was based on the feeling that 70% of Native Americans supported keeping the name and logo and the settlement gave them ample time to get their tribal councils to document that support. They obviously did not have this as high of a priority as we thought.

That is clearly a false statement. Kelly had nothing to do with it. Kelly was told when he interviewed the stettlement was done and he needed to deal with other issues. Get your facts straight! You can dislike him or criticize him but do it for the right reasons.

Read the forums on the Sioux name regarding the recent legislation and the Big Sky warning UND the name could be a problem.

"to date the Big Sky has not enacted any....". Are you serious? Would you really wait until they do?? it will be too late then! What the hell are they teaching UND students these days?? There was nothing "arrogant" in Sicatoka's post. His other posts on this subject are also spot on. The few of you who still don't see the threat to UND, UND athletics and even UND hockey just don't get it. UND's admission to the Big Sky is at risk. That is a fact. The Gophers and Badgers and now possibly the other Big Ten hockey schools may not play UND. The league is ultimately controlled by the presidents of the respective schools not the coaches or even AD's. The college preseidents basically run the NCAA. That is one reason the NCAA is hypocritical and inconsistent. These guys are PC types without the courage to solve the real issues of kids taking money, drug use and academic fraud. This is an issue they can and will win unless the Standing Rock Tribe saves the name. Maybe that is how it should be. The real Sioux can step up and fight for the name and logo or maybe we shouldn't be calling our athletic teams the Fighting Sioux. Are the supporters the feared fighters our announcers claim they are before our athletic events, or are they not interested enough to get things done. Some of you insulted those on this board who warned we would lose the Gophers and Badgers on the hockey schedule. That has come to pass. Some criticized those who were crazy enough to suggest our Big Sky membership might be in jeopardy if the name issue wasn't resolved either with NCAA approval or by complying with the agreement. That has come to pass. Write this down and see how this turns out: Hockey East and the other Big Ten hockey schools consider not playing UND if the issue isn't resolved. A few hundred people with a snootful of booze and the logo on thier shirts and hats have zero influence with the NCAA nor the college presidents who control these conferences, Dave Hakstol convinced enough people to lobby the state legislature but he won't be able to schedule some of the traditional hockey powers because of a name and logo. How smart was that? Which would you rather have: A great hockey schedule with no risk to our chances of winning and losing on the ice, or being able to sit at the end of the bar and shout to anyone who listens that we sure showed "them"( whomever them is). We will have all of the home and home series with St. Lawrence and Ferris State and maybe soon St. John's or Concordia. Quit wasting time criticizing UND officials for what you think but don't know about. Al Carlson is an NDSU guy who could care less about UND and in no way should he ever be elected to congress or the senate if you are a UND fan, He has helped create a disaster for UND and UND athletics and insulted Kelly. Doesn't matter if you like Kelly or not, Carlson is a jerk who is using the logo issue to try and position himself for future political gain. Some of us have been working to get support for the name and logo before some of the rest of you were even born. We have had plenty of time and the time is out and we didn''t get it done. During those last forty years we have won National and league championships in hockey, FB, WBB, and been a power in swimming in addition to the other successes. The name hasn't won one game, scored one point, nor blocked one puck. I think it is a great name and logo but our athletes, coaches, and the University are more important than the name. I can't tell you what all the other schools and conferences will do over the next few years but I can say with conviction that if we are sanctioned by the NCAA and the name stays we won't be getting any teams who will come calling to get us on their schedule because the name stays. You want to win games or do you want to win a pissing contest with the NCAA and the PC crowd? Frankly I don't hang with those types when I can help it. I would rather associate with those who are on the field, the ice, the courts and are competing. We need to quit screwing a dead horse here and move on because soon it will be too late. We need to support the board and UND officials who are trying to get this dumb-ass legislation reversed. It has done nothing for the name and has put UND athletics and the University at risk potentially for years to come.

The Big Sky fiasco may have doomed our chances. This kid would have been an ideal fit if he doesn't go to Iowa or N. Illinois. No way any kids commit if we don't have a conference and some stability with very few exceptions. The delay in our practice faciltiy is also a hinderance. NDSU will be sending a big thank you to the state legislators who screwed up the name issue for UND. I would guess they are giddy down in the cow pasture.

The Mollberg kid from Detroit Lakes is making visits to Northern Illinois and Iowa this month. Off Coord from Iowa thinks he has big time arm and may be good find on a kid under the radar.

I believe there is truth to that story. The the elder Mayo was also an Army Surgeon and had access to corpses. That was a time when medicine was just starting to be regulated and transitioning from the Barber/Doctor who may send for his mail order degree to licensed and physicians trained by accredited schools.

The negotiations are ongoing and the $10,000,000 is still on the table from what I understand. The relationship between Mayo and Altru won't affect the support Sanford is willing to commit to in supporting the University of North Dakota nor UND atheltics. Sanford is sponsoring the UND Siouxper Swings for the second year this summer. Sanford and Mayo have a number of mutually beneficial relationships, including use of the Mayo laboratory services, pathology services, and the relationship between Mayo and the Roger Maris Cancer center. With regards to other comments on this subject, I think this relationship with Altru and Mayo is intriguing. I wish Mayo would have purchased Altru. The electronic and telehealth services referenced by others have been available and used in this area for a number of years by others. I understand that a lot of that technology was developed by the US military. Many people don't realize how much of the technology developed by and for our military is used in other industries and the medical field especially has benefitted. The Mayo story is fascinating and if any one is interested the book "Brothers Mayo" is an interesting story of how a small group of Catholic nuns convinced the Mayo brothers father to staff a small hospital in Rochester over 100 years ago. The two boys Will and Charlie subsequently went to medical school at Michigan State and Rush University before returning home to Rochester. Many of the techniques for record keeping was developed by Mayo staff and an internist named Plummer developed or invented a number of technologies used to make record keeping and communication more efficient. What the Mayo brothers did was to travel the world to learn new surgical procedures and techniques that they then brought home to Rochester. Eventually they developed a reputation such that surgeons from around the world began traveling to Rochester to observe techniques and procedures developed by them. Mayo was one of the first, if not the first, to utilize the style of specialists working together in one organiziation. Mayo has a world class reputation and has been around for over 100 years. Mayo has been on the cutting edge of medical technology and research for many years. The Mayo Foundation (I believe) has over a billion $ in assets. Having said that, Sanford is a also world class health care organization but does not yet have the world class reputation even close to that of Mayo. Merit Care/ Sanford have had Cardiology services, Oncology services (Roger Maris Cancer Center) and Urology services to name three that have been ranked amoung our country's best by US New and World Report and other ranking services. Sanford's diabetes research is doing some cutting edge stuff and recently found a way to get the pancreas of diabetic mice to reproduce insulin. Human trials are recently underway. Sanford is building Pediatric clinics in underserved areas around the world and around the country . Don't sell Sanford or Altru short. When I was doing my residency, residents form Mayo's family medicine residency were sent to the UND Family Medicine residency in GF for their OB rotations because the rotation for Family medicine residents at Mayo was substandard. Doesn't mean every patient has had their expectations met. When I was at Mayo that didn't occur either and still doesn't, but to insinuate Sanford Health is not a player in providing top notch health care to rural areas would not be accurate.

This poster hasn't a clue. UND is a great "get" for the Big Sky. The AC, USD and SDSU would also have been great additions. UND has discussed the Big Sky option since the 1970's. That has always been UND's first choice. Until it wasn't an option, it had been the first choice of the AC. Both schools should have moved up in the 1970's but didn't. Both schools are where they are and both seem happy. Both schools are coveted by FCS conferences because of the respective budgets and quality of athletic programming. Montana doesn't "rule the Big Sky", they happen to have the better MBB and FB in the past few years and have the budget and facilities that many others don't. UND will fit in nicely for those reasons. UND has never and never will need the AC any more than the AC needs UND. UND would not prefer the Gateway/Summit now nor in the past. Had that been the only option, UND likely would have chosen that route. Fortunately for UND the timing was right and the Big Sky option was there.

That would be correct.

Will not happen. He won't go the the Air Force Academy. Brewster who had been at Minnesota told them about him because he can run the veer and he could run their offense. Northern Illinois now coming after him also. Best education for which major??? Ag is better at your Ag College or SDSU. Business, Accounting, Entrepreneurship programs probably better at UND. Education and coaching better at UND or SDSU. Engineering might be a wash depending on which Engineering. Nursing better at UND. Pharmacy better at your ag School in Fargo. Air Force is the one school that has an aviation program that can compete with UND for recruits. Don't sell these schools short. Air Force Academy is a great school but so are the other three. Grads from the two Dakota Ag Schools and The University of North Dakota are highly recruited because of the so called midwestern work ethic and the excellent reputation of the schools.

Most of the Plains Indians consider the Buffalo sacred. (They know the Bison suck). Some tribes also consider the eagle, the beaver, the skunk, and other animals sacred. Different tribes had different beliefs. My old roommates, (one is now a judge and the other a prosecuting attorney) always considered the beaver sacred but they weren't Native American.

Point well taken

I think that there are a couple of things that are worth while to remember. First of all the SBoHE is taking postive steps again on behalf of the name. (doesn't matter why) Shaft correctly pointed out that Faison testified as he did based on what he was told by his boss. You can dislike him or criticize him but do it for the right reasons. Nothing bad can happen because of this effort and I think this is well worth the energy. If we are going to get the NCAA to move on this issue in favor of the name, this is probably the best shot we have. I think the message that everyone involved is going to go as a team in a joint effort is important. I would not include any of the oppontnets. This is a lobbying effort on behalf of the name, not some "sham fact finding" championed by some of the opponents.

I believe it is called Hail to the Victors.

The "real fight ing Sioux" are alive and well and they are doing whatever it is they are doing. We aren't really Sioux Indians you know. Who are you going to fight with? Most people here want to fight with Faison and Kelly or the SBoHE or for that matter anyone else on this board who might question what the best strategy and plan is at this time. We criticize the Gophers and Badgers but are going to rely on their goodwill to schedule us in the future?? That isn't any smarter than trusting the State Legislators who hate UND to have done something good for us with this legislation in the first place. Who are you going to meet with to educate them on what UND does for Native Americans? Don't you think the opponents won't do the same and contradict everything you might say? Don't you think the people at the U of Minnesota, Wisconsin and Iowa are not already aware of what UND offers? They were aware years ago when I worked for UND. Who are you going to make those few phone calls to? The Wizard of Oz? I don't think even the Wizard of Oz is going to get Standing Rock to vote or give us support on this but I agree with you that is the best solution. At White Earth, when the people don't like what the council does or doesn't do, they throw them out. They could do the same at Standing Rock. I believe if they voted it would be similar to the vote at Spirit Lake but I don't think the "real fighting Sioux" think it is all that important or they would have gotten this done. The people at the NCAA are the same ones who have been inconsistent with enforcement of their policies for years. They aren't going to change on our behalf unless forced to. We can win in court and I am not convinced that is likely unless Native Americans bring suit based on being discriminated against. I don't know though because I am not an attorney. We can get Standing Rock to support the name. We are wasting time whining about Kelly, Faison or the SBoHE. We need to lobby Standing Rock, the NCAA or successfully litigate. Anyone have any other ideas I would like to hear them. Failing that .then we either change the name or leave it and live with the results and sanctions. There is clearly no agreement on which of those options is best.

Minnesota would not schedule us in FB, BB track etc. Not only has Faison and some of our Alumni Office staff stated that, I spoke with Maturi and he said they won't schedule us. Wisconsin said they would not schedule us but when the agreement to retire the logo was signed, they took us off of their no play list and scheduled us in WBB. I think that is consistent with what Faison is saying.They both have stated they will play us and Illinios as long as we are in their conference. I do not know if they play Illinois because they are in compliance or just because they are in the conference but it doesn't matter. Anyone including Frank want to take a chance on losing hockey with the Gophers or Badgers? I don' know if they will play us if we are on the sanction list and no one on this board has any clue either. Their present policy would prohibit it and don't count on anyone from U of Mn. giving a rip what any of us say. Maturi stated to me that they won't play us as long as that is their policy. Maybe they will change their policy. As long as you are willing to give up those games I'll buy you a pizza and beer and you get no arguament from me. I was told that UND had a swim meet at the U of Mn. I can't confirm that but it shouldn't be hard to figure out. The crap about UND staff being leftest PC folks is a bit bizarre. It is irrelevant. They might be right wing conservatives. There are a number of people who bring up some very good points. The biggest concern is scheduling and hosting events. The unknown is are there recruits who want to play in their home state. Roy Williams UNC and former Kansas coach thought so and tried to schedule games in his players home states for them. Maybe he didn't know anything about recruiting. I know for a fact that our coaches in FB are concerned. Frank is correct in stating the majority of UND athletes and alumni are strongly in favor of the name. I don't believe all agree with his insults. This board is a hockey fan board and I understand the sentiment but it is not an excuse for failure to consider facts. Franks reference to Faison's responsibilty for the teams, traditions and success of UND athletics is right on. Faison's primary responsibility is not to the logo nor the name. Whether or not we agree with how Kelly and Faison have handled it the issue, their primary responsibility is not the name and logo. It is to the the people who make up the teams and who coach the teams, to the University and to our alumni and fans. They also answer to the SBoHE. At present that is what we as the tax payers have set up for higher education in this state. Frank states Faison and Kelly need to be prepared to pick up the financial losses if the name is changed. Is he willing to pick up the costs to the University if we are sanctioned? Frank invokes Clifford. I believe he was our best president. I worked for him and with him. He had many years as president to solve this issue and I believe he tried. He and Earl Strinden worked closely with Ralph to put together the donation for the arena. The agreement that gives UND athletics the proceeds from the arena and after 20 years gives the arena to UND does not include any requirement to keep the name. I believe if Tom Clifford, Earl Strinden and Ralph Englestad were willing to risk damage to the rest of UND athletics they would have included that clause in the agreement. I am not going to change people's minds on this board but there are more and more people of sound mind who are starting to consider what hockey will be like in two years and what sanctions will do to scheduling for UND athletics. Nobody knows for sure but there are enough concerns to be careful with this. I was around when UND hockey was down, when MBB was king, when WBB was queen and when FB trumped hockey as the sport on campus. To forget how these sanctions might affect UND and UND atheltics is failing to prepare. A wise coach once said that means you are preparing to fail. Whatever side of the proverbial fence you seem to think you are on, you better keep in mind the possibilities. That isn't doom and gloom it is trying to be smart as we move on from here. Faison isn't going anywhere, he works for Kelly. Kelly isn't going anywhere, he answers to the SBoHE. The SBoHE might be going somewhere but if it is over this issue that would be a mistake. I give Frank credit for writing and putting his name to his email and I give credit to Faison for suggesting they meet. For those who have heard this before skip to the posts that won't challenge you to think. If this is too long click your mouse and you don't have to read any of this. If you get so mad you piss yourself then change your grundies. Go Sioux!

Unless they have some sort of Native American logo or reference they can call themselves the Braves because that isn't necessarily Native American.

Genoway is an excellent defenseman. In four plus years how often have you seen someone take the puck around him, past him, or over him. He is excellent with his stick and he sticks with forwards as they come across the blue line forcing them outside or else poke checks the puck away. I think that is waht he is supposed to do. He doesn't knock them over but he knocks them off of their route and you don't see the opponents get good shots because he either poke checks the puck or ties up their sticks. He gets the job done as a defenseman but his offensive skills are so much better than most defensemen, we overlook the fact that he is an excellent blueliner. I think if you told coaches from around the league or scouts people here think he is a defensive liability they would laugh. Most coaches would take 6 of him in a minute. His smarts, speed. quickness and stick handling skills tht make him so good offensively are also what make him an excellent defenseman.

Behrns wasn't "terminated" here. He was taking a lot of heat and the program was struggling. He took an assistant job at a D1 school (with Utah State I think). He was not popular here at the time with fans. It took quite a awhile for Roger Thomas to resurrect the program. There certainly was pressure on him and the administration at the time. Since that time he was respected as a good coach at Utah State and he did a great job at Omaha.

It happens a lot. When our pal Chapman attended the SBoHE meetings he flew to Bottineau for the meeting, then instead of staying over night like the rest of the presidents did, he flew back to Fargo for the night, then flew back the next AM. Bottineau didn't have a single hotel that charged even $500 per night much less$1,500 and he and the missus weren't about to slum it up there. Besides, Bottineau HS are the Braves, or they were , and isn't that just as hostile as the Fighting Sioux?? Frankly, this happens a lot for whatever business UND officials have in Bismarck and other places. I'm not sure there is much here. There is nothing illegal about flying employees or students to Bismarck to testify. You might argue they should have driven or you might argue they should drive off of a cliff, but this isn't the $25,000 Chapman trip with friends and family for entertainment. It doesn't take much to get rumors going and get people in a tizzy about nothing. Great entertainment and sometimes interesting exchanges. Don't anyone leave the blog. I wonder what Graham Cracker and Windyboy (or whatever his name was) are doing. They must be in a tizzy too. Maybe they were the co-pilots or the stewards (flight attendents) on these secret lobby flights. . Anyone know if this was a champaign flight??? I wonder if I could hitch a flight to this weekends Final Five. I would even bring the booze!! Anyone think Kelly got a Nicholson (watch the movie Bucket List) on this flight from one of the PC women from the Womens Center or English Dept?? Now that should be in the Herald! Good stuff folks, keep it coming and go Sioux!

The NCAA represented the NCAA and no one else. The SBoHE represented the University and the State of North Dakota including Native Americans who support keeping the name. I believe the professor from the AC is one we used in our school district to give a talk on diversity to our staff. I understood she was from UND and I was going to srite a letter requesting they fire her until I learned she was from the AC. She did a power point presentation and for the most part sat on her butt then told the audience they could read it themselves. Occasionally she injected stories of how terrible the Indian Schools were for her grandparents and how she has inheritied that hurt and how painful it is for her. Her stories were the same kid of stuff we got from the nuns in Catholic school. Pulling your ears, washing your mouth out with soap, kneeling in the corner on a hard surface, getting whacked on the hand with a ruler or in the butt wiht a stick. For some reason she couldn't understand that was what some nus used to do and it was the same for the Catholic kids. She also said giving a presentation was so painful for her she would have to take time off for a few days to recover. She was an embarrassment to NDSU, and an embarrassment to her own culture. We had numerous complaints about wasting our staff time and she will never ever be brought back to our district.! This is type of rhetoric that has been used for 40 years by these people and they present all of what they claim as fact. including the misinformation that we have a mascot. I will be attending the Native American Caucus at the National School Board Convention instead of the Frozen Four and I will be wearing my UND gear including the logo. For what it is worth we are changing the facts a little here. There was no agreement in 1969, there was a ceremony affirming the Elders support of the name that UND received permission to use the name back in about 1938. It came from a group of elders though, not their tribal council.