iramurphy

You seem to forget to mention another important factor. There were a number of National Native groups pressuring the NCAA to change the policy before the members voted overwhelmingly to change the policy. The NCAA was responding to lobbying by multiple Native organiizations and individuals rather than dictating to the ANtivNeither Spirit Rock nor Standing Rock spoke up on behalf of UND when it counted. When you do business on the reservation, you adjust to that culture, same as you do when you do business in another country. The cultural differences between tribes is as different as cultural differences between European countries such as French, German, Spanish, Itallian etc. I would expect tribal governments and cultures to adjust to the NCAA timeline when off the reservation and the NCAA to adjust to the individual tribal cultures when they do business with the tribal governments. I believe you have an argument that the polciy to allow other ethnic groups to be represented by names and logos but not Native Americans is discriminatory. I don't agree that makes people involved from either side racist. Maybe ignorant of cultural differences or insensitive at times but I don't believe racist. Your continued references to UND officials as racist or incompetent is not based on facts. Your information about removal of all logos etc. is also not correct. The agreement allows for some to stay, some to be removed over time and most recently consideration for a different timeline. None of this precludes any of us from working with Native American children to improve educational opportunities. That will do more than the name and logo. You would do better to drop the name calling. Playing the race card at every opportunity decreases the effectiveness of using it when appropriate. Lastly, I gave up on trying to get Chewey to point out what he thinks our congressional delegation could have gotten UND that other congressional delegates obtained for their schools.

I believe UND is over 3/4 the way tot he $19,000,000. I don't believe there is Sanford money. I believe it includes a substantial donation from Altru. I have no idea if the announcement is related to the facility. I guess we will see.

Put me down as not being as smart as Dave!!!

I have had season tickets for hockey for 37 years and for FB for 38 years. About 75% of the time I forget to send in my renewal on time and every year I get a reminder. Happens every year. Dave, this is another example of how you are taking an issue and trying to mislead people into believing something that isn't true. There is nothing desparate about these notices. UND hockey will have an adjustment to make moving into the new league. If the Gophers and Badgers aren't on the schedule, it will have a bigger effect on attendance than the name and logo. There are very few people who would pay to watch college sports based on the uniforms, logos, or jerseys. You may be one of a kind David. You are angry at the wrong people. Take this up with the other over 400 members of the NCAA who voted the policy into place or our Native American tribes who had the opportunity to allow us to keep the name but neglected to act. That is their choice not yours or mine. I appreciate your entertainment value but weren't you going to go away from this blog as well as UND athletics if the name was voted down. What may be accurate is that beer sales at hockey games may drop drasticaaly if you don't renew your tickets!

Do you realize how stupid that statement is? Ralph would roll over in his grave if he thought UND could be that stupid. Spend $100 million for UND hockey and the athletic program, then close it down because the nickname and logo changed. He didn't get to be a billionaire by being stupid. He would have explained this to you and anyone else suggesting something this crazy but would have used more colorful language.

Dave I thought you said you were leaving. I appreciate your entertainment value so welcome back. You obviously are not familiar with the contract. Ralph Englestad had in mind a facility for UND hockey that would be the best in the world. Many of us think that was accomplished. This arena was also intended to provide a source of funding for UND athletics for years to come and that includes hockey. The contract isn't a secret, you can find ways to obtain a copy.. He did not make it perfectly clear no other team should play in that arena and especially that UND hockey by another name wasn't welcome. Where do you come up with crap like that? That is also the same crap the folks who lobbied to keep the name claimed. The contract with UND has nothing requiring UND to keep the name. Before you come up with your rather radical opinions and ideas at least get the facts straight. I was at UND the day he announced the gift and sat back in the UND reception area after the announcement and listened to his comments. He said nothing of the sort. Having said that I didn't know him personally and maybe he told you in private that was his wish. What his support was clearly for was UND hockey, UND athletics and UND. His frustration during construction was that he was told the logos were OK and then Kuppy started to waffle while the arean was being constructed even after a lot of money had been spent to include the logo. He got frustrated with the adminsitration for the inconsistent message. He did support keeping the name. There is no evidence he wanted to keep it at all costs. Had coach Hakstol explained the growing list of schools that wouldn't play us and the recruiting problems it is starting to create there is no way he would have wanted UND hockey playing elsewhere. He would have thought anyone with such a goofy idea an idiot. He loved UND hockey and the tradition of UND hockey. The name was a very small part of that and almost everyone who has played or coached can tell you that. Ralph was smart enough to understand there is a time to cut your losses and move on. 67% of the people of N. Dak. understood that as well. To claim there was no leadership is simply whining and lack of understanding of the process over the past 40 years. If Earl Strinden, Tim O'Keefe and Dave Hakstol presented the facts to Ralph he would not have turned his back on UND hockey and UND athletics on behalf of this name. UND hockey and UND athletics are far more important than the name. You folks who keep making claims that more whining or legal threats would have made a difference, simply refuse to see the facts. The NCAA members voted 98% to 2% to do away with these names. Neither tribe supported keeping the name as required by the NCAA. Multiple people lobbied the tribes and they wouldn't budge in 2005 and then neither would agree before the deadline. How many other colleges had leaders who were able to get the NCAA to compromise and give us an additional 3 years grace period? The claim that the Natives at Standing Rock weren't allowed to vote is now gone because they voted to drop the name. So did the Spirit Lake folks. The don't need a mediocore attorney, 4th line former hockey palyer and overweight former military paper pusher to speak for them. They have spoken for themselves. Time to move on.

What is "appalling" is your complete lack of understanding of this issue and your willingness to blame UND officials, alumni and the SBoHE. The tribes had an opportunity to allow the name to stay and chose not to in 2005 when it would have taken only a statement from one tribal council to allow the name to stay. It was UND officials, SBoHE officials and the attorney general who lobbied to get a grace epriod for UND. The tribes had another opportunity to keep the name and they chose not to. With the counties the tribes are located on voting to retire the name the old arguament about keeping the name for the Native Americans doesn't hold true anymore.. They are all smart enough to see it was time to retire the name for whatever reason. UND officials including O'Keefe did a lot over the years to try and keep the name. The NCAA members voted 98% to 2% to drop Native names and logos. UND officials, coaches athletes and obviously the entire state has made clear the name needed to go. To state the only problem witht he sanctions was the potential loss of the Big Sky shows you have no clue what recruiting involves, Scheduling does indeed play a factor in choices made by athletes and the fact that the list of schools who wouldn't play us was growing should have been a red flag for everyone. Don't forget the NCAA changes playoff policy over time. How many years did we have home playoffs in MBB, WBB, FB and Men's hockey? The loss of home playoffs for VB, FB and womens hockey is another factor you can't overlook. If you think it isn't a big deal then you never competed. I don't see people gloating they are relieved and want to move on and it is time. It is also time for those who didn't want this result to quit blaming people who worked very hard to keep the name but in the end did what needed to be done to move our athletic tieams forward and put us in a better position to succeed. It amazes me that the Johnson guy, or Frank or our old pal Dave simply won't include these facts in their discussions. The so called truth tour could not have been further from the truth on some issues. For those who can't accept this vote and move on then I guess you have to find another team. For the rest, lets accept the change whether we like it or not and do what we need to do to help UND succeed in all sports as well as an academic institution. More importantly than this name, there are so many ways you can get involved and make a difference for our Native Americans that will do much more good than this name. Best to quit looking to blame and look for those opportunities to make a difference.

We didn't have a mascot. That was misinformation used by the name opponents over the years when they were lobbying the NCAA to drop the name.

Make sure you understand UND didn't drop the ball the tribal governments did. One of my old fraternity brothers thinks UND could have changed all of this if only.... When pressed as to what they should have done differently, he had no answers other than they should have done more. He blamed Kelly and could grasp the fact that this all took place before Kelly got here. We got the same requirements others did. Our tribes didn't comply when it would have taken only one and then later when it required two. Simple as that. The NCAA is not doing anything to UND. Over 95% of the NCAA members voted to abolish Native names and logos. UND and less than 10 other schools voted to keep them. Don't punish our UND athletes coaches and fans on the fields, the courts,and the ice.

Professor Dave, The answer to your problem is University of Phoenix. One of greatest college FB stadiums in the country. They don't have a FB team. I don't believe they have any athletic teams, but you may be able to make their fantasy FB team. This will be just like the fantasy world you, Frank and others are trying to drive UND to. We will have the greatest hockey facility in the country but no college hockey team. Fetch will be able to schedule his old timers team anytime he wishes and call them the Fighting Sioux. He can turn the weight room into a sheep pen for his harem. You might wish to inquire as to whether or not the former Fargo mayor would sponsor you to join the "freethinkers" group. You could keep them occupied for years. A lot of them are philosphers like yourself. A number seem to be former college professors like the former mayor so you would love that group. It will give you something to do after the vote. If UND prevails and the yes votes win you have stated you will abandon UND athletics. IF the no votes win, UND athletics will suffer a slow death under these sanctions as more and more teams refuse to play UND and you will have even more time on your hands.

My cousin from Bismarck has had kidney cancer and is on dialysis and they recently found lung cancer. Prognosis not good. She isn't sure she wants to bother with chemo but wants to live long enough to vote yes. God bless her.

This is very typical of the misinformation passed to voters in the western part of the state. These are all U of Wisconsin campuses and I bet whatever you want to bet, they are under the same policy as the Madison campus. You make a claim such as St. Thomas being as large as UND or these U of Wisconsin schools being as big or bigger but you don't have the facts. You also don't have the facts when you claim they get more scholarship money than a UND student. I dont' believe D3 schools give scholarships. You really think you are qualified to make an informed decision when you enter the polling place to vote??? When you are this misinformed I would conclude you are either deliberately mistating the facts or not very bright or both. Same kind of crap Frank and the Minot attorney are trying to spread in N.Dak.

What do you think they could have accomplished that we didn't get? We got the same deal Florida State, Utah, Central Michigan got. Our Native American tribes had the chance to be heard but were silent in 2005. Who can claim they didn't have a chance to be heard?? Then UND officials and the SBoHE were able to get a temporary reprieve. How would our elected officials done differently? Despite the money spent and the efforts made to keep the name, the organization we belong to has decided (with over 400 member votes in favor to less than 10 against), that they wish to do away with Native American names and logos. How did other elected officials do more for their schools than N.Dak. officials? We all got the same thing initially, then after the work of the SBoHE and UND officials we got an extension. You are right, they didn't do anything that I am aware of, but what would have been different? Those who continually bash UND officials and SBoHE officials forget they fought this battle and took a lot of crap from the activists and those opposed to the name for years. It doesn't take much for the pissants of the world to turn on you. Where were Frank and Soderstrom et al when the SBoHE and UND officials were trying to keep the name?? I agree we didnt' get much from our elected officials but I am not sure what more they would have gotten for us.

Your problem, Dave, is that you call anything you don't like lies. You don't wish to be confused by the facts and neither do others on your keep the name website. Here are a couple of facts as best I can summarize for you and any of the others who are leading the charge that will hurt UND athletics and UND as an institution.. UND is a voluntary member of the NCAA. Over 400 members voted to ban Native American names, logos and mascots. Less than 10 members voted to support them. UND spent over $1,000,000 trying to save the name. The SBoHE, UND Alumni and supporters of UND fought for years to try and save the name. Many Native Americans support keeping the name and have tried to be supportive. Both tribes were given an opportunity to make their wishes known and their preference a reality back in 2005. Had one of the two tribes stated clearly to the NCAA that they as a tribe supported the name it would not be the issue we face today and UND alumni would have saved alot of money. When neither of them did that, the NCAA declared UND on the sanction list. Then UND, The SBoHE tried to sue the NCAA to force them to let us keep the name. It was clear to attorneys including the Attorney General, that UND would win the intitial lawsuit because the NCAA didn't follow their own policy. It was also clear we were screwing the proverbial dead horse because they would then follow their own policies and do the same thing and we would then lose litigation. UND and the SBoHE and the Attorney General got them to extend the deadline for UND and UND only. It did require both tribes to grant approval. During the additional time UND and SBoHE officials attempted to communicate and negotiate with Standing Rock Tribal Officials who restated their opposition to the name. That has been consistent since the late 1990's. They also refused to meet with UND or SBoHE officials over time. The lies you refer to are the claim that UND or the SBoHE did nothing. The lies are that the tribes haven't been given a chance to "come to the table". They were given a chance to have their way and weren't required to come to the table. They were given the opportunity for discussion and negotiation over the years and the tribal officials weren't interested. Those are facts. It is also a fact that Standing Rock has not allowed their members to vote on the issue. That is their business and if their tribal members wish to do so then they can lobby their elected officials or elect new ones. It is stupid to claim they have no voice. Their elected officials made clear they want the name to go away and the tribal members hwve done nothing to change that stance. That is how their governement works, not how you or I or Fetch, or Frank think it should be done. It is a fact that our membership in the Big Sky looks good for this year. It is also a fact that UND has been cautioned by their league commisioner that this issue could jeopardize our future with the league. It is a fact that Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa and S. Dak. State won't play us as long as we are sanctioned. It is a fact that there are new reprots that the AC may not play us as long as we are on the sanctions list. It is a fact that many recruits for all sports look at future games and schedules as they determine the factors when it comes to recruiting. Beloning to a league and who we play and where and how we travel are important factors. What kind of sports are available and who the opposing teams are, are a factor for fans when they consider going to games and supporting our teams. That is also a factor for some non-athletes when they consider where they will go to college. I know this because many years ago I was the Director of High School relations at UND and before that coached FB at UND and was involved with recruiting. Those of you who don't think this is a factor just don't know what you are talking about. Losing the ability to host playoffs is detrimental to our athletic teams. Anyone who thinks otherwise is ignorant. For those who think hockey only and that this won't hurt hockey give some thought to maybe our best incoming recruit Jordan Schmalz. If his Dad and uncles didn't play FB at UND there isn't much chance he would be coming. He had committed to Wisconsin. Will that occur very often? Probably not but with recruiting for hockey at this level we need every advantage and can't afford to lose one kid over this issue. Many former UND athletes and coaches as well as present UND athletes and coaches are telling you we need to vote yes for UND athletics. The Booster club, the Alumni association, UND student leaders, and the vast majority of former athletes and coaches and alumni who have a clear understanding of this issue, are very clear we need to vote yes. We need your help and it can in fact affect outcome of games more than anything else you have done. UND staff, students and Alumni have travled to Fargo and Minot to help with flood fighting and disasters amd will dontinue to do so regardless of the outcome of this issue. Do us all a favor in the meantime and vote yes for UND. Vote yes for UND athletics. Vote yes to prevent a potential disaster to UND.

I have never said Native Governments have allowed their people to have a voice in this. UND, the SBoHE or the state of N.Dak. have no authority to make the tribal government let anyone have a voice. The Native American people can do that if they wish. Thus far, not enough of them wish to change things. What I said was, that they as tribal goverments were given a chance to voice their opinions. In 2005 all it would have taken was one or the other to fulfill the NCAA requirments to give UND permission to use the name and neither of them did so. Whether or not Natives feel they have been heard on any issue important to them including this one is none of our business and the way they can change that is to vote someone else into office. That fact won't change no matter how this particular issue is resolved. Spirt Lake and Standing Rock have their own governing bodies and they and they alone can change how that works. This is only one issue and voting one way or another on this measure won't get them a voice on their tribal councils nor will it change what the tribal council says or does. The NCAA has made it very clear this vote is irrelevant to them. This is not about standing up to anyone. This is about disagreeing with the vast majority of NCAA members and then defying their decisions. Native elders have been heard on the issue and they seem to have been very supportive of the name as best I can tell and from those who have chosen to get involved. These individuals do not have the authority to speak for their respective tribal governments just like I don't have the authority to speak for mine. What I did say and it is accurate is that those tribes had ample opportunity to speak up and be involved in this whole process over the years. Some elders and others who supported the name did exanctly that and UND officials did a number of things to try and sway the NCAA over the years and to sway the tribal governments. Obviously it didn't work. The elders would understand the term "we are kicking a dead horse". The NCAA doesnt' care whether or not they are heard and the NCAA has a legal right to that decision. The NCAA is a private organization and over 400 members voted to get rid of Native Names. The NCAA has made it clear the vote on this measure is irrelevant to them. Those of you who think this is a civil rights issue don't understand the rights of a private organization. I don't agree with the NCAA and don't care for how they run the organziation. Unfortunately for me, the NCAA and the members don't care what I think. Same goes for the tribal elders and the rest of us. If the name goes away nothing changes in the lives of Native peoples. If the name stays it puts UND athletics in a postion whereby there are factors we can't control that may put our teams and coaches at a competitive disadvantage. Those of us who have been in the coaching business and recruiting business over time are trying to tell people the facts. Guys like Purpur, Hakstol, Charilie Bridgeford, Tim O'Keefe, and the whole host of former UND athletes and coaches who have realized the potential harm to UND have asked us to vote yes. They have a lot more credibility than the former 4th line hockey player and an unknown attorney from Minot. Their website simply declares what they wish as fact and anyone who tries to respond with a counter point based on historical facts and evidence contrary to their stance is called a lier. Pretty easy to see we need to Vote yes for UND and vote yes for the future of UND athletics.

This is a great example of how misinformation has allowed someone to form an opinion and would vote based on what he or she may believe is an honorable reason but hurts UND. All tribes had an opportunity to have their voices heard. The Standing Rock Tribal Officials wouldn't respond to UND officials on a number of occasions and when they did their answer was they were opposed to UND keeping the name. The people of Standing Rock had ample opportunity over the years to elect representatives who would have supported the name. They did not. The Spirit Lake Tribe also had an opportunity to speak out on behalf of UND in 2005 and had they done so the name would be there without sanctions. "These people" you refer to had ample and multiple opportunites to speak out. There were open forums and there were committees over the years. There have been many opportunites to participate in the discussions. The agreement with the NCAA involved the parties with "a horse in the race". UND, the State of N.Dak. and the NCAA. Whether or not we wanted to sit at that table or wanted someone else including Tribal Officials to sit at the table, is not something we can force on the NCAA nor the courts. (The courts just decided that). The SBoHE fought to keep the name until it became clear the NCAA was not going to allow them to keep the name without approval of the tribes. That was another opportunity for the tribes to have their "voices" heard. At some point the SBoHE relaized the futility of trying to force our opinion on the NCAA and have been trying to retire the name once we were unable to get those "voices" you refer to to be heard and approve the name. Vote however you wish, but learn what the heck you are talking about before you make a decision. Misinformed voters like you could very well hurt UND athletics beyond repair. NDSU, SDSU, recently joined the growing list of schools who are heeding the recommendatin from the NCAA that no NCAA school schedule UND. The possibility (not certainty) that UND will be removed from the Big Sky is real. To vote against UND because groups of people didn't care enough to take action when they had the chance is not a good reason in my opinion. As time goes by there is something new every month providing more evidence of how keeping the name will hurt UND and UND athletics. Anyone foolish enough to believe it won't hurt UND hockey as well is just palin foolish. The people who matter most in this discussion are not the people of Standing Rock and Spirit Lake. It is the student athletes, the students, the fans, the alumni and the rest of the UND community that will be directly affected and hurt by the NCAA sanctions.

Cary Eades is only one of the UND coaches. Good recruiting is a result of many factors. The head coach and the assistants are a recriuting team and have a team strategy.. The players you have on your team and how they interact with the recruits is a huge factor. The quality of the facilities. The reputation of the program. The quality of the academic institution. The location of the school and in many cases the chances of the kid playing and whether or not he thinks the chances of playing in the NHL are enhanced by his college choice. As far as our recruiting dropping off I am not sure I agree. Nelson was a great recruit. Grimaldi is a great recruit. The kid who changed his mind and played Juniors in Canada was a good recruit. The Schmalz kid coming in is a big time recruit. Forberg, Kristo are blue chip kids. Kids who left early like Gregoire or Hextall. You can go down the list and most colleges would be very happy with the kids UND has had recently and has coming in. Don't know why Eades is moving on but Brad Berry was not the only UND recruiter at the time nor was Eades recently. For those who don't think UND's schedule has anything to do with recruiting, the breakup of the WCHA and the loss of the Gophers and Badgers on our future schedules are a negative rather than a positive. That makes the recruiting job a bit harder. Recruting and the choices kids 16-19 make are based on different factors for different kids. Any small factor may be enough to move a kid to or away from a school. Not sure how Eades factors into that.

I believe it is accurate to say Altru has come through with a sizable donation and UND has about $15.6 million pledged thus far. This facility project should start picking up speed. The Sanford donation offer was there. The biggest problem with the athletic training issue is the orthopedic coverage. UND is covered well by Altru with Drs Mann and Greek and the Family Medicine residents for primary care. 90% of athletic injuries are taken care of by the athletic trainers and 90% of the rest can be taken care of by primary care physicians with Sports Medicine experience. UND has that covered well right now. There is not a consistent ortho referral pattern and Sanford has no orthopedic surgeons in EGF or GF so that makes it tougher for Sanford to upgrade. Sanford has an excellent Ortho staff and multiple physicians with Sports Medicine training and experience. Getting the Sports Medicine contract was the center point of the $10,000,000 donation. I believe Sanford would like to develop a collaborative relationship with the UND med school and be the provider of Sports Medicine. The Altru donation probably puts a damper on those wishes.

Still Army-Navy.

Mollberg scored 20 in first round loss to DeLaSalle. Lakers couldn't get outside game going and LaBatt had some foul trouble and wasn't a factor offensively. Labatt rebounded well and outjumped the 6' 6" kid for the opening tip off by about 4 inches. He is a grat athlete and brings some options for where to play him. On a sad note, Mollberg's cousin fell off a horse yesterday and was flown to twin cities with serious head injury. Keep her in your prayers.

Is that the same as the AC? Did they change their name? Hard to keep up with all the changes in college sports these days.

You make a good point. I don't get to coffee often and I live in Minnesota so these guys aern't going to help donate. I still have to work. 4 figure donations are big donations and we can't afford to lose those donors. Read my post. I didn't make my comment personal on purpose, I just think we are way past blaming UND and UND administration for this mess, especially the ones who are there now. The enemy is the NCAA and the problem is the referendums and the proposed legislation that will handcuff UND.

I knew that but easier to change Uniforms than arenas.

Too easy. Army-Navy.

I think you are correct in your concerns about the future of UND hockey. The prestige of the WCHA without UND, Minnesota, Denver, CC, UMD and Wisconsin is not the same. That same prestige is not yet associated with the NCHC. That is why it is important to continue to schedule the Big 10 schools. The name is not the factor. Indiana didn't lose their name and they were already struggling before they dumped Knight. Aren't they playing Kentucky in the S16 today? I don't know that I would call that "just another team". The name isn't UND hockey and the name isn't UND athletics. We will be fine without it. For those of you who are superstitious, UND has never won an NCAA title wearing the present logo uniforms no matter what the color of the hockey sweater. We win with these new uni's, and we will have half of the hockey fans converted on that factor alone.