MinnesotaNorthStar Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Could it be the AD's office that is getting greedy? I realize that they may not see more money now from the movement of the students, but what about when UND takes over the Ralph? Could it be that their looking forward into the future...ponder that one for while. I'm not saying that's what's happened, but I'm just looking at things from all angles here, devil's advocate or thinking outside the box if you will. Man, am I on a roll or what !! ...yeah, I know, probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Here's the story from today's Grand Forks Herald about the UND Student Senate's "proposed compromise" on seating. Can you say "dead on arrival?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I think it is better to be moved wherever and to be allowed to stand, sit, cheer or be quiet to your hearts content rather than keep the same seats but be dictated how whether you stand or sit. I agree that the arena needs raucus students to help the atmosphere. I can also agree that I like to stand a lot during games, and feel more like cheering when I do. Can't explain why. I also agree that, while upper level seats are still excellent viewing for games, I don't feel as "connected" to the action on the ice and have less motivation to cheer. Can't necessarily explain that either. So keep the students on the main level. Preferably by the opposing goal twice but accept wherever you are put with NO restrictions (other than normal fan behavioral) on how you act. Accept it, deal with it, and come ready to be crazy next year. Oh, I can understand fighting tooth and nail to make sure no seats are lost in the lower bowl. Seems only fair. Wouldn't hurt to get Dean Blais on your side. I think Dean has mentioned in the past his opinion on fan support and how that can help the team... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmail Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Can you say "dead on arrival?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 dagies, I understand and agree with your points. But I also sympathize with those who are paying a boatload of money to see the games. I'm quite certain that the students wouldn't put up with anyone who blocked their view of the game. What gives them the right to block other peoples' view? It's a matter of being considerate and respectful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 dagies, I understand and agree with your points. But I also sympathize with those who are paying a boatload of money to see the games. I'm quite certain that the students wouldn't put up with anyone who blocked their view of the game. What gives them the right to block other peoples' view? It's a matter of being considerate and respectful. Airmail, I won't be a boycotter because if I get tickets I'll be scratching for tickets whereever any non-student can find them. PCM, I need to clarify. I do sympathize with other fans whose view is blocked by the students. I really am 2 minds on that. 1 being that if the students want to stand up, they have every right to do so. On the other hand, I can just as easily understand the viewpoint of people who enjoy going to the game and don't like to stand up as much as me or others. My main point was to say that having the students stay where they are at and stand up as much as they want is obviously not going to happen. If the admin wants to put them in a corner and they can stand all they want, then so be it. Take the deal without restrictions, forget the crap, and come ready to enjoy Sioux hockey next year. BUT, I don't think the students should accept a reduction in seats on the lower level without a fight. It's too bad, in hindsight, that the students were originally given the seats they were. I think all intentions were in the right place. To bad they weren't originally given Sections 105 and 104. Maybe that would have taken care of things at that time. Seating chart http://www.ralphengelstadarena.com/arenamaps.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdahl Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 The student senate's concern (based on the GF Herald article only) seemed to be the loss of lower bowl seats. The senate's proposed "compromise" did include specified non-standing seats for students, so that doesn't seem to be the sticking point. Why didn't the originally negotiated deal give the students a couple more rows in section 110 (so students would have the same number of lower bowl seats)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaNorthStar Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 As far as the students staying where they are, in light of current proposals, I am all for it. IF the athletic office accepts the deal where we stay where we are at, but only stand when it is appropriate, I say we take it and run with it. But we will need the help of the arena controlling the students who don't want to comply with the agreement. We can't tell them what to do. What are we going to do?.....drag them outside and beat them until they cry uncle and don't stand? And BTW...there is no way in hell I will boycott due to seating issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmail Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 But we will need the help of the arena controlling the students who don't want to comply with the agreement. We can't tell them what to do. What are we going to do?.....drag them outside and beat them until they cry uncle and don't stand? And BTW...there is no way in hell I will boycott due to seating issues. I agree, but do you think that REA wants the responsibility for enforcing UND's policy? Since there's no way to control the crowd, other than... drag them outside and beat them until they cry uncle and don't stand? I think the move is inevitable. I think that guy who brought up the boycott ought to be shaken, not stirred. Is there not a shortage/ waiting list for student tickets as well? I'm sure he gained tons of ground with the "powers that be" with that comment. Way to help your cause, dumbs**t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Lets think about this. No students buy tickets to the games. Since students don't buy any tickets, who cares where they are sitting since there won't be very many of them. Less students means it is easier for the Athletic Department to do whatever they want. Also by students not buying tickets, the tickets can be sold to other people for more money. So this clown's idea is for the students to stop going to games and make it so REA and the AD can make more money. Boy, that sounds brilliant. Make it so more profits will be made, that sounds like a great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 It's too bad, in hindsight, that the students were originally given the seats they were. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the students originally assigned seating at one end of the arena? Didn't they complain mightily about not having the same sections they had in the old Ralph? Isn't that why they were moved to the side seats in the lower bowl around the penalty boxes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I think the students originally had sections 107-109 in the lower bowl and 307-308 in the uppper deck or something like that. Not entirely sure though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedorov Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I have said all along that I will give up my student season tickets if there is a loss of seats in the lower bowl. It has nothing to do with a boycott, but rather I don't want to pay money to sit in the upper bowl. There is a waiting list to get tickets, so there would be someone willing to take my spot. I believe the idea behind the boycott is that if the students are gone, people will see what is missing without the students. Unfortunately, the atmoshpere sucks already with the students present because of the no standing policy. I agree that the boycott would make the situation worse, but with how many people in the AD department and regular season ticket holders trying to ruin the atmosphere for their comfort, it might not matter. It is time for UND and REA to decide what they want. They can have a fun place that supports their team, or they can have a money-maker. Supporting the team with your money is helpful, but if you are going to just sit down, want comfort, and not cheer, you can do that from home. You would see the action closer on your big TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawkota Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Unfortunately, the atmoshpere sucks already with the students present because of the no standing policy. This is laughable. There wasn't a "no standing" policy that was policed last year so that cannot be a reason for a perceived lack of atmosphere. And here's this old man's opinion - for the past 10 or so years, the students collectively have added little to the atmosphere of a Sioux hockey game. They stand the entire game. Big Deal. Look, we're standing. Can't you see by our standing what great fans we are. Let them try a boycott. It won't work. They couldn't get more than a dozen students to protest. And the ones that do leave, nobody will miss them. The people waiting to get season tickets will be much more rabid fans than any students willing to give theirs up. I said before and I still believe that the students should get at least the same number of lower bowl seats as before but this attitude of entitlement really ticks me off. For $65 or so a year (20+ games for the price of 4), the students feel they should get their choice of seats and should be able to stand the entire game, even though most don't actually cheer while standing and the ones that do can't be counted on to develop anything other than banal chants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFarce Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I agree lawkota. I have been a fan and resident of Grand Forks for many years. As alumni I feel I should have just as much rights to the arena as current students. This is not high school any more. Past students and supporters are just as big of a contribution to athletics at the college. Again, this is not high school. You don't need to stand the whole game to show what a great supporter you are for your team. I remember many years of fans at the old Ralph that were twice as enthusiastic and oh yea, they were sitting down. As for your boycott. Good more seats available for me when I come back to visit. The atmosphere in the Ralph is not what it could be because of the current product on the ice. I remember many years going to the old Ralph where there were no problems holding conversations with individuals on the other end of the rink. That being said when the team was good the emotions ran in a higher gear. The Sioux need to give their fans in the new rink something to get excited about. Squashing BSU and giving up leads and playing musical goaltenders and........ you get the point. It's just not cutting it. Put the 2000 and 1997 teams in the new rink and I gurantee you will feel the energy. A perfect example of this is with the Wild. I go to about a couple dozen games throughout the year. Enjoyable, good crowds, comfortable environment. Yet the energy felt when we were down 3 games to Colorodo was unmatched by any previous game. I think that fans at the Denver playoff series had there first taste of what a game with a good team could be like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedorov Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 There wasn't a "no standing" policy that was policed last year so that cannot be a reason for a perceived lack of atmosphere. There was a policy, but it was not reinforced as much as the first year. Interesting......everyone said the atmosphere last year was better than the first year. Why stop the improvement, allow standing the whole game. If you want to sit, watch your boring sports like baseball, basketball, and tennis. More exciting sports like hockey, football, and NASCAR involve people standing up a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsioux Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I agree that it is funny how the students feel entitled to stand! It wouldn't be so bad if they were actually cheering, but 90% of the time they are just standing there. I don't think the team gets any energy from the fans just standing there. I think that it would be a different story if the students were going nuts and making some sort of noise while they are standing. Some use the argument that at places like Duke's Cameron the students always stand...well, they are also always making noise and getting on the other team in a clean way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fighting Sioux Hockey Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Well Teamsioux I would have to say the students cheering 10% of the time helps the team alot more than the rest of the arenas sitting. Ask any of the players I guarantee they like the students cheering. Blais has said it himself. Oh yeah one last thing when was the last time anybody other than a student started a chant that got the whole crowd going? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 And here's this old man's opinion - for the past 10 or so years, the students collectively have added little to the atmosphere of a Sioux hockey game. I couldn't disagree with this more. As an alumnus, I think the students are the main source of atmosphere. A college hockey game without the band, the chants, the young ladies, etc. would not be a college hockey game at all. Christmas or Spring Break games are not nearly as fun as games with a strong student presence. College hockey without the students would be like NHL hockey without as much talent. I also think that some of Federov's comments are not helpful either. Nobody's goal is to destroy the atmosphere. You're not going to get anywhere by saying things like "if you want to sit, watch your boring sports like baseball..." Comments from either side like "Stand or go home" or "Sit or go home" don't add anything meaningful to the discussion. If the students have a right to stand, then the rest of the people have a right to see the game without having to stand for the entire game. The problem is that the AD can't appease both sides with the students at center ice. The solution? Move the students to the end so they can stand all they want while not obstructing the view of others...but give them the same number of lower bowl seats that they've enjoyed the last two seasons. Isn't this a logical compromise? Why can't the students and RT see this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fighting Sioux Hockey Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I agree with mksioux the students would be satisfied with the equal number of seats in the lower bowl and it would be an even greater plus if the students got to sit in the opposite corner where we shoot twice. And as he points out i am willing to bet anybody who went to the games over christmas would say they lacked the environment. Could this be because the students weren't there? I think so, the rest of the arena has a right to see the game and the students have the right to stand. So why not make an equal comprimise? Not a comprimise with money involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 A perfect example of this is with the Wild. I go to about a couple dozen games throughout the year. Enjoyable, good crowds, comfortable environment. Yet the energy felt when we were down 3 games to Colorodo was unmatched by any previous game. How do they manage to generate such atmosphere at the X without any standing students? The idea that students must stand to generate atmosphere is a myth, a way to rationalize the continuation of a rude, disrespectul and inconsiderate practice. The crowd noise during the home series with Colorado College was as loud as anything I'd ever heard in the old Ralph, especially during the second game when the Sioux came from two goals down to tie the game. The crowd noise was just as good during the playoff series against Denver. Even when the Sioux lost 4-1 in the first game, the crowd was into it. CC's coach Owens attributed the hometown crowd with helping the Sioux to build momentum and come back against the Tigers. DU's Gwozdecky thought the crowd was the advantage that gave the Sioux the edge in both their overtime wins against the Pioneers. What's the one factor common to both these series? The CC series was during the Christmas holiday break. The DU series was during spring break. Many students were gone for those five games. And yet, without the usual compliment of students, the atmosphere in the REA was great. It can be done. That being said, I support having as many students at the games as possible. I also support having them in the lower bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmail Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 There was a policy, Yes... and it was ignored. So, the students as a collective group are now going to reap what they sow. I can just hear the meeting of the new student proposal... "Mr. Thomas, I know we've been disrespectful in the past, but this time we really, really, really promise to be good." Give me a GD break! Since you brought up football, my seats are in the front row at the Alerus, and I sit my ass down out of courtesy to those behind me. When play calls for it, I'm up on my feet yelling and screaming like everyone else. NASCAR??? Who gives a damn about NASCAR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I'd rather sit at center ice than stand in 111, as would most other students I think. Then again I don't matter anymore since I won't be a student anymore. Most of the students did sit last year. The problem was that some students didn't and that caused a bunch of problems. The real problem is that no one is working together during the year to solve the problem. We all sit here with our thumbs up our butt during the hockey season. Now at the end of the season these conversations are taking place. Why the heck didn't they take place during the season? Both sides are to blame, but ultimately I think the seating situation will remain the same for next year with one difference. The sitting a majority of the time will be enforced and that will be good thing. Both sides could end up being reasonably happy with this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmail Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 We all sit here with our thumbs up our butt during the hockey season. Hey back off the "non-standers"... J/K I disagree, diggler. I think the decision has been made, and now it's a "going through the motions" thing. Maybe I'm wrong, God knows it's not the first time... but I think that conversations with the student senate are nothing more than a courtesy/ PR game. After all, the students do not own any piece of that building; and after all the broo-ha-ha (love that word) about team spirit, crowd atmosphere, and students' rights is over with... the students do not have a leg to stand on, and are subject to whatever the AD decides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11~ZachAttack~11 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Season ticket holders: When you aren't going to use your seats, please make sure someone is in it. I don't care if they are rabid and cheer for UND or just sit there like a statue. (Cheering for opponents is unacceptable. ) (im quoting this from a while ago) Amen!!! i hate it when i go to the ticket office and the general admission tickets are sold out, but when i go home to watch the game - you can see empty spaces in the season ticket space. i understand that you can't make it to all the games but there are some people that would love to go but there are no tickets left. and if you can't find someone to buy them from you - post them on the rea website!!! then someone else has a chance to go to the game!!! just my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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