Standing Rock/Spirit Lake

[Goon]

I see where WDAZ is having a special report on the Sioux name this Tues. & Thursday - where they are interviewing leaders & people at the two Reservations -

I saw that as well.

[GeauxSioux]

Spirit Lake UND grads want voices to be heard

The current president of Cankdeska Cikana tribal college, Cynthia Lindquist Mala, also signed the letter. She also holds a doctorate in educational leadership from UND.

"I signed the letter because I want to make sure people are informed, that they understand why this is an issue for us," she said. "My perspective stems from being a North Dakota native, living in both (American Indian and white) worlds, and my six years as North Dakota Indian Affairs Commissioner (from 1998 to 2004), and seeing and addressing racism in this state."

Mala said she's considering hosting a series of presentations on her campus to better inform tribal members about the logo and its effects.

"I am frustrated that it's still going on," she said. "From my perspective as a tribal member and a UND graduate, I think the institution should know better. They do know better and they should be addressing it.

Boy does this smack of elitism. The people aren't smart enough to know what to think, so I'll "educate" them on how to think regarding the logo issue.

"They've turned it so it's about Spirit Lake and Standing Rock and it's our fault and our issue. We should know better. UND is the state's premier learning institution and it should be held to a higher standard."

UND didn't do this. The settlement between the SBoHE and the NCAA did.

[dagies]

Spirit Lake UND grads want voices to be heard

First, the letter states, a tribal council vote supporting the logo likely wouldn't settle the issue, because pro-logo council members could be replaced in the next election with anti-logo council members who could call for another vote. According to the UND-NCAA legal settlement, if both tribes support the nickname, but one of them later changes its position, UND would have to retire the logo within one year.

Second, the letter argues, a Spirit Lake vote supporting the logo would serve no purpose if Standing Rock votes differently or if those votes are disregarded by the North Dakota Board of Higher Education.

"These are two very possible scenarios," the letter states, "then our vote and (the) animosity generated by such a vote will all be for nothing."

Third, the letter writers express concern that a poll taken at district meetings will not be an accurate representation of the whole tribes' views, because they're typically poorly attended.

1. The converse could be true as well. Anti-logo council members could be replaced in the next election.

2. That's like saying North Dakota shouldn't vote in the presidential election because it is likely not going to vote with the winning candidate.

3. I do wonder if it would be considered an accurate representation if she was confident the vote would go her way.

[ScottM]

Yet another example of why this surrender settlement was nothing short of a disaster. UND's name/logo would be held to the whim and fancy of people who have no/little connection to the school. Dump the name/logo on our own terms, and quit pandering to these people.

[Fetch]

a Spirit Lake vote supporting the logo would serve no purpose

I still say No support - a boycott of their casinos is in order

[Bleed Green]

While I like the idea of a boycott ... I just don't think it would make much of a dent. Are there enough people for the Sioux name that go to the casino on a regular basis that wouldn't go to really impact the bottom line?

[Oxbow6]

Yet another example of why this surrender settlement was nothing short of a disaster. UND's name/logo would be held to the whim and fancy of people who have no/little connection to the school. Dump the name/logo on our own terms, and quit pandering to these people.

Agree with you completely. Pandering to is all they know though!!

[Fetch]

Are there enough people for the Sioux name that go to the casino on a regular basis that wouldn't go to really impact the bottom line?

I think there are a lot & more should think about it - It is something they have to be (or should be) worried about

[Fetch]

I know this is not Apples for Apples but Bad PR is Bad PR

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/25/man-win...ction/#comments read the comments too

http://www.nbc10.com/news/10860544/detail.html

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

1. The converse could be true as well. Anti-logo council members could be replaced in the next election.

Thats true, but AFAIK it would make no difference once your name/logo is gone. I think once you give it up, you can't get it back. I'll admit I haven't read the "settlement" closely but that's the way I understand things.

The "anti's" only have to win once. The "pro's" have to win EVERY TIME.

From the article:

"They've turned it so it's about Spirit Lake and Standing Rock and it's our fault and our issue.

Exactly who is the "they" you refer to??

And can you imagine the reaction if somehow "they" took this OUT of the hands of the tribes? Omigod, you're disrespecting OUR culture; we own this, remember the smallpox blankets, .....

Also from the article:

"...at least listen to what we tribal members, who have attended UND and who have experienced the negativism spawned by the logo, have to say as opposed to those who support the logo yet have never put one foot on the UND campus."

Good-now they want to set up a two-tiered voting process. Someone ought to ask her if there needs to be a ranking based on how long you've visited the campus: one day, one vote: three years, one thousand votes...

Finally:

"What prompted the letter is the unimaginable possibility that our tribe would support a resolution that okays the logo..."

Yes, its quite unimaginable that the Seminoles and the Utes and the Chippewas did exactly this. Here's someone who's very used to getting his own way and isn't afraid to lecture you if you disagree.

[dagies]

I still say No support - a boycott of their casinos is in order

The average Native American owes nothing to UND. I don't believe boycotting the casino for a lack of support for the nickname is anything but vengeful, IMO.

[Fetch]

You may be right ( I prefer for every action there is a reaction)

But what is it when a small minority of vocal opponents try to say it is not done with respect ?

But for a group, who wants our business, it is not good PR

You want to wait & hear this after it's over ?

Casinos -It's about the same distance to the east

[dagies]

You may be right ( I prefer for every action there is a reaction)

But what is it when a small minority of vocal opponents try to say it is not done with respect ?

But for a group, who wants our business, it is not good PR

You want to wait & hear this after it's over ?

Casinos -It's about the same distance to the east

I understand about the small minority. I just don't think it's fair to punish the innocent majority.

[Fetch]

I agree but tell that to the signers of that letter & the leadership

[siouxforeverbaby]

2. That's like saying North Dakota shouldn't vote in the presidential election because it is likely not going to vote with the winning candidate.

I agree with you there. Maybe someone with a better memory than mine can correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the settlement state that if they say no, we have no choice but to change the name. Which would make their second argument null and void because after their vote it is all said and done.....no support = no name.

[Fetch]

& Mennomen is about as close to Fargo too (as if they would support us)

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

The average Native American owes nothing to UND. I don't believe boycotting the casino for a lack of support for the nickname is anything but vengeful, IMO.

You may be correct, but I think the tribes realize there will be some sort of backlash. And on a personal level, I know that if I went out for an evening of entertainment, just realizing that several people in that tribe were being turds just for the sake of being turds would turn me off. I'd seriously consider if I was getting enough entertainment for my money by going to that casino.

I understand about the small minority. I just don't think it's fair to punish the innocent majority.

But what is "fair"? People weren't going to go to the Atlanta Falcons' games after Micheal Vick: certainly that wouldn't have been fair to the vendors, parking lot people, etc. Advertising was pulled from Cleveland Municipal Stadium after the Browns announced their move: that wasn't fair on some level. In both cases, simply carrying on in the usual way wasn't what people were going to do and a choice was made to "hurt" some people rather than do something that was against one's principles.

Finally,

The average Native American owes nothing to UND...

But OTOH, they do owe rational thinking to themselves IMHO. To listen to the people who are saying things like "this doesn't begin to make up for 150 years of history..." and think that they're getting back at "the man" with this is just as vengeful.

(And no, two wrongs don't make a right.)

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

One more thing that's not necessarily from this thread, but was mentioned in the various "free speech" posts: remember the so-called church who has people picketing at the funerals of veterans with the message that "God hates fags"?? They showed up at the funeral of one of the shooting victims of Northern Illinois University.

[sioux7>5]

One more thing that's not necessarily from this thread, but was mentioned in the various "free speech" posts: remember the so-called church who has people picketing at the funerals of veterans with the message that "God hates fags"?? They showed up at the funeral of one of the shooting victims of Northern Illinois University.

Please tell me you are joking that they showed up to a funeral again. I think a nicely placed missle on there so called church would be a good thing. They need to take an long drive off a short cliff, by accident of course.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Please tell me you are joking that they showed up to a funeral again....

They were there. On television last night they refused to show them; however, they did show the large blue tarp that counter-protesters were holding up to shield the church and the family. And in the paper today they mentioned that the village had "coincidently" parked large snowplows between the protestors and the church.

The newspaper interviewed one of the people. Her "God hates fags" sign was a leftover from when she went to the funeral of one of the people shot in the Omaha department store.

[dagies]

You may be correct, but I think the tribes realize there will be some sort of backlash. And on a personal level, I know that if I went out for an evening of entertainment, just realizing that several people in that tribe were being turds just for the sake of being turds would turn me off. I'd seriously consider if I was getting enough entertainment for my money by going to that casino.

But what is "fair"? People weren't going to go to the Atlanta Falcons' games after Micheal Vick: certainly that wouldn't have been fair to the vendors, parking lot people, etc. Advertising was pulled from Cleveland Municipal Stadium after the Browns announced their move: that wasn't fair on some level. In both cases, simply carrying on in the usual way wasn't what people were going to do and a choice was made to "hurt" some people rather than do something that was against one's principles.

Finally,

But OTOH, they do owe rational thinking to themselves IMHO. To listen to the people who are saying things like "this doesn't begin to make up for 150 years of history..." and think that they're getting back at "the man" with this is just as vengeful.

(And no, two wrongs don't make a right.)

You're right, but I don't believe it helps the cause to lay these kinds of threats out there. This is the exact sort of thing that the anti-nickname crowd can use when they are pointing to the "hostility" they are subjected to surrounding the name. We can argue until we are blue in the face whether or not this actually exists, but the reality is they can and will use this sort of thing against us.

That, and I just don't think it's a constructive argument in the first place.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

...I don't believe it helps the cause to lay these kinds of threats out there. This is the exact sort of thing that the anti-nickname crowd can use when they are pointing to the "hostility" they are subjected to surrounding the name...

Yep, they can link this thread and use it as some sort of proof that they're being threatened with economic retaliation. But I will add this: even if this thread didn't exist, or if any other internet/printed/taped statements were NEVER made about how UND supporters were threatening an economic boycott unless a vote was in favor of the University, I think that some of the loudest screamers on the other side would simply say "I heard...." and it would be irrefutable.

You've seen people here talk about some sort of homecoming at another school with pictures of skinned Indians. The hyperbole of "I heard that the hockey fans were organizing a boycott" is mild by comparison.

[GeauxSioux]

University system chancellor, Sioux leader meet

Goetz pledged late last year to meet with leaders at Standing Rock and Spirit Lake, North Dakota

[GeauxSioux]

NDUS chancellor urges more UND nickname dialogue

Bill Goetz says his recent talks with leaders of the Standing Rock and Spirit Lake Sioux tribes shows the need for building trust. Goetz says he doesn

[siouxlove]

I wonder what he means by this? The name/logo? The lack of dialog with the tribes?

He says the current situation is not acceptable.