NDSU and UND

[Sioux_Yeah_Yeah]

Or being a fan of both Sioux and Gopher hockey.

UND and NDSU don't play each other, and they haven't for a few years now, while Auburn/Alabama does and obviously so do the Sioux and Gophers. I would love to see them play again, and soon, but I don't think I'd be able to root for just one team. I would obviously want the Sioux to win just to drop Bison egos a little bit, but I would probably cheer for both teams.

[Diggler]

Or being a fan of both Sioux and Gopher hockey.

Box.

[HaksHomey]

NDSU would beat UND, once the rivalry is renewed it won't be long until UND catches up to NDSU. I'll admit that I cheer for the Bison now that the rivalry is in hiatus... maybe it is because I was born in Fargo, but I really think that I am a fan of Bison football because they compete against the gophers. I don't see how you can't cheer for the Bison when they play in the metrodome. State of North Dakota represent!

[EDIT for grammar]

[bincitysioux]

I don't see how you can't cheer for the Bison when they play in the metrodome. State of North Dakota represent!

GO BISON ON OCTOBER 20TH!!!!!!!!!!

[Let'sGoHawks!]

d2football.com link

Check out what the NCC columnist has to say about the Bison. It is under "Hot Topics"...let the flamefest continue.

[bincitysioux]

d2football.com link

Check out what the NCC columnist has to say about the Bison. It is under "Hot Topics"...let the flamefest continue.

We might as well discuss the merits of San Diego State University, because they have just as much to do with UND and the NCC as NDSU does.

[WYOBISONMAN]

d2football.com link

Check out what the NCC columnist has to say about the Bison. It is under "Hot Topics"...let the flamefest continue.

A poor journalist...........clearly a UND homer........

[Sioux_Yeah_Yeah]

So I was bored (of course, go figure) and was looking stuff up on Wikipedia. I realize it's not all that great of a source for anything, but I was amused nonetheless to fine this:

"The Sioux lead the all-time series between the two teams 62-45, with 3 ties. In games where the Nickel Trophy has been contested, the Sioux also lead the series 35-30 and won the last three games in the series."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_Trophy

[Diggler]

I want the Gophers to win this year because they'll be the underdog. That is unless Granpda Sports ignorantly spouts off again about how horrible NDSU is and how the Gophers will win by at least 40. Then again with how arrogant, moronic and out of touch with reality he is, he probably will say something ignorant so there is a good chance I'll want the Bison to win. God, I hate him.

[HaksHomey]

"The Sioux lead the all-time series between the two teams 62-45, with 3 ties. In games where the Nickel Trophy has been contested, the Sioux also lead the series 35-30 and won the last three games in the series."

Greatest sporting event I have ever witnessed without a doubt is SIOUX v. bison 2003

[The Walrus]

The UND vs NDSU was the best (Football) rivalary ever in the State of North Dakota (100+ years) and maybe the best ever in Division 2 Football. It would also have to rank nationally pretty high up there or NFL Films would not have produced "Fire and Ice"....

I'm not going to get into who I think would win, but rather that it is sad that it is over....

IMHO by the time UND finishes the transition period and becomes a eligible counter for NDSU, NDSU may be gone again. I believe that the path that they are on NDSU will end up as a member of the WAC or Mountain West. I do not believe we will ever see a UND vs NDSU game again in Grand Forks. UND will play NDSU again but only on their terms and in Fargo (maybe every 3rd or 4th year).

In the last 25 years Fargo and NDSU have enjoyed rapid growth, while UND and Grand Forks has remained level (UND as been GF only growth).Grand Forks population last 25 years 48,000 to 52,000. Fargo 60,000 (25 years ago) has now over doubled in the Fargo / Moorehead area.

It's sad but if UND and Grand Forks does not get it's act together Administration, Marketing, Fan Support, Population growth it is going to take a very long time. I'm not sure it would have made any difference when we tried to make the move, IMHO the results would still be the same.

Does anyone think we would sell out 12,000 hockey seats without Fargo and surrounding towns...? We will not sell out the UND vs UNO football (game of the year) this weekend.

UND vs NDSU will still be a great game every 3-4 years and both teams will win their share, but it is sad to think that 100 years of tradition is coming to a close.

[gabe01]

Wow, he must have read my mind:

Take a look at the entire schedule for the Bison this year and the records of their opponents. At this point the records of the opponents are 20-41! You certainly can't blame the players for this, but it does take away from that ranking with only two of the eleven teams they play with a winning record.

Man I just can't stop coming back.

He's twisting the facts and trying to manufacture something to take a jab at NDSU. He's taking the record of every team NDSU is going to play (even the one's we haven't played yet) and using that as a losing record.

It's not who you play... it's who and how you beat them.

Fact:

NDSU easily beat Central Michigan by a larger margin than Purdue. We all assumed that CMU sucked? Well, they are currently in 1st place in the MAC with a perfect 3-0 conf record. How strong is the MAC? CMU beat Ball State by 20. Ball State almost beat #8 Michigan the week before. The Gophers almost lost both games to MAC teams but managed to squeak one out. CMU did win a bowl game too.

Fact:

NDSU easily beat Western Illinois, a ranked Gateway team who's perfect in the conference and only other loss was to the Big Ten's Illinois, 21-0. Western Illinois, had a 10 year home winning streak of non conference games... until NDSU came to town.

Fact:

NDSU pretty much dominated every other game, except the Sam Houston game.

Then he talks about how the Bison would be a solid NCC team and struggle against South Dakota and Western Washington.

Last time I checked NDSU smoked UC Davis and Western squeaked out a win in week 1, the week strange things happen like Appy beating Michigan. However, the writer didn't point out that McNeese state blew South Dakota out of the water by 30 points. McNeese is in the Southland Conference, home of Sam Houston and Stephen F Austin. NDSU would beat South Dakota by 50 right now. NDSU would beat McNeese right now. Infact, NDSU has never lost to a team from the Southland Confernce. (I think 5-0?)

This guy should be titled, "Sioux Homer" instead of an objective writer. I'm suprised they allowed such unprofessional crap on a legit webite. It shows how ghetto D2 football really is. I've seen better reasoning skills here.

And yes, like I"ve said before, if the Bison/Sioux played right now it would be a good game. NDSU would probably win a close game if it was early in the year but win by more if it's late in the year. But strange things always happen at Bison/Sioux games so who knows.... (last 3 games decided by a few points)

[BisonCardinal]

Man I just can't stop coming back.

He's twisting the facts and trying to manufacture something to take a jab at NDSU. He's taking the record of every team NDSU is going to play (even the one's we haven't played yet) and using that as a losing record.

It's not who you play... it's who and how you beat them.

Fact:

NDSU easily beat Central Michigan by a larger margin than Purdue. We all assumed that CMU sucked? Well, they are currently in 1st place in the MAC with a perfect 3-0 conf record. How strong is the MAC? CMU beat Ball State by 20. Ball State almost beat #8 Michigan the week before. The Gophers almost lost both games to MAC teams but managed to squeak one out. CMU did win a bowl game too.

Fact:

NDSU easily beat Western Illinois, a ranked Gateway team who's perfect in the conference and only other loss was to the Big Ten's Illinois, 21-0. Western Illinois, had a 10 year home winning streak of non conference games... until NDSU came to town.

Fact:

NDSU pretty much dominated every other game, except the Sam Houston game.

Then he talks about how the Bison would be a solid NCC team and struggle against South Dakota and Western Washington.

Last time I checked NDSU smoked UC Davis and Western squeaked out a win in week 1, the week strange things happen like Appy beating Michigan. However, the writer didn't point out that McNeese state blew South Dakota out of the water by 30 points. McNeese is in the Southland Conference, home of Sam Houston and Stephen F Austin. NDSU would beat South Dakota by 50 right now. NDSU would beat McNeese right now. Infact, NDSU has never lost to a team from the Southland Confernce. (I think 5-0?)

This guy should be titled, "Sioux Homer" instead of an objective writer. I'm suprised they allowed such unprofessional crap on a legit webite. It shows how ghetto D2 football really is. I've seen better reasoning skills here.

And yes, like I"ve said before, if the Bison/Sioux played right now it would be a good game. NDSU would probably win a close game if it was early in the year but win by more if it's late in the year. But strange things always happen at Bison/Sioux games so who knows.... (last 3 games decided by a few points)

I believe we are 7-0 against the Southland Conference. Roundtrip wins against Nicholls State, Northwestern State and Stephen F. Austin. Single win against Sam Houston State. Gene Taylor has stated the Southland Conference has been very good to work with. Many of the teams were willing to travel to NDSU for $50,000 and air fare. Something that UND may want to keep in mind as you put together your OOC schedule. I would still like to get McNeese State and Texas State to the FFD.

[mksioux]

IMHO by the time UND finishes the transition period and becomes a eligible counter for NDSU, NDSU may be gone again. I believe that the path that they are on NDSU will end up as a member of the WAC or Mountain West. I do not believe we will ever see a UND vs NDSU game again in Grand Forks. UND will play NDSU again but only on their terms and in Fargo (maybe every 3rd or 4th year).

Unfortunately, I think that might be true. Given the bad blood and NDSU's sense of vindication and taste of success, I think NDSU will do whatever it has to do to stay ahead of UND.

I'm not sure it would have made any difference when we tried to make the move, IMHO the results would still be the same.

I disagree. Making the move with NDSU would have made a huge difference. If UND had moved at the same time, USD would have moved as well and all four Dakota schools would have ended up in the Great West. NDSU would probably be content in the Great West, at least for the foreseeable future. Not to mention that there wouldn't be this rediculous amount of bad blood between the schools. Imagine a 7-school conference, probably the best in DI-FCS, well on its way to an auto-bid that included UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, UC-Davis, Cal-Poly, and S. Utah. Maybe it would even be more than 7 teams by now because 7 would make it viable and appealing conference, unlike where it is now (on life support).

Does anyone think we would sell out 12,000 hockey seats without Fargo and surrounding towns...? We will not sell out the UND vs UNO football (game of the year) this weekend.

I agree Fargo is a big part of the hockey fanbase, but many of those Fargo fans are UND fans and may support UND football if it was considered more big-time. Put another way, do you think the Ralph would sell out 12,000 a game if UND hockey was not considered big-time and never played Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan State, etc.? No way in he!l. Hockey creates a buzz because it is a high level of hockey and plays big-time schools.

UND vs NDSU will still be a great game every 3-4 years and both teams will win their share, but it is sad to think that 100 years of tradition is coming to a close.

Sad indeed. Maybe more people should have thought about this back in 2002.

[The Sicatoka]

Talk about negativity.

You have a city that survived the worst American inland flooding this century and that a decade later has the premiere hockey facility on earth as home to the #1 college team in the country. Down the street sits the domed football stadium that the 2001 national champions play in attached to a new 200+ room hotel/convention center. Toss in that the hockey facility has a pretty decent basketball practice facility attached and that's not so bad.

The guys down the highway? They've got the local media center and some great PR folks working for them. It's dizzying what you get from them. And yes, they've got a couple nice wins in certain sports.

But so do the guys in Grand Forks (three straight Frozen Fours anyone? an Elite Eight? some playoff runs?). They just don't need to hear their name on the TV and radio as much as some do to know they're doing well.

Could it be better? Sure, always can.

Is it that bad? No.

[The Sicatoka]

Dear Sioux fans,

If everything is so wonderful for Fargo and NDSU, if they've gone so far so fast, and don't need or care (think: worry) about UND or Grand Forks any more:

Why. Are. They. Still. .... Here.

[mksioux]

Talk about negativity.

Sorry. I do not think things are quite bas bad as Walrus. UND has a great product and is finally moving in the right direction. I think we would have been much better off if we had made the move earlier, and I'm obviously still bitter about all of the resistance to the move. But at least we made it. Things would have been much worse if we had not made the move and got stuck behind the moratorium. We need to look to the future and get excited about DI, regardless of whether the rivalry resumes, or what form it resumes in. I suppose it doesn't help when I keep bringing up the past.

[CMSioux]

For the same reason that UND is still the primary subject of posts in their chat rooms and anti UND chants are still popular with their students - they can't move on because they have to put us down to make themselves feel good.

[star2city]

Unfortunately, I think that might be true. Given the bad blood and NDSU's sense of vindication and taste of success, I think NDSU will do whatever it has to do to stay ahead of UND.

NDSU has milked all kinds of mileage out of "UND won't play" us, even with UND having legitimate playoff reaons. The PR for NDSU to not play us out of spite would become politically intolerable for them.

As far as IA football, many UND fans find it unthinkable for us, but yet possible for NDSU? The MAC and WAC have better geographic / media candidates. The best hope NDSU has for a IA football league is that somehow the Gateway morphs into a IA league or somehow the Big Sky will morph into a IA league with associate members. With either situation, getting to the minimum 8 teams will be a major hurdle, and UND, with a refurbished Memorial Stadium (or new stadium) would not be out of the picture.

I disagree. Making the move with NDSU would have made a huge difference. If UND had moved at the same time, USD would have moved as well and all four Dakota schools would have ended up in the Great West. NDSU would probably be content in the Great West, at least for the foreseeable future.

NDSU transition to DI has far exceeded anything I expected. But their success in football is not the primary reason (thought they'd have 7-4 seasons, rather than 10-1). The Bball success is what's truly outstanding and almost totally unexpected, even from die-hard Bison fans. Whether they can continue that success beyond next year when their "Fab Five" graduate is TBD. But even in spite of their basketball success, if it hadn't been for Chicago State dropping out of the MidCon, almost certainly NDSU would still have been without a conference. Without the MidCon (now Summit) bid, the Gateway wouldn't have happened either. Certainly, NDSU has to be given credit for being at the right time at the right place (through a lot of hard work), but adminstrative imcompetency at Chicago State is what Bison fans should truly be thankful for in their DI transition.

[Bison06]

I agree with you that UND talk on NDSU message boards and vice versa is still very common, I attribute this mostly to most posters being in the older generations. But, I have not heard 1 UND chant at an NDSU game this year, which I am grateful for. I think we need to understand that the longer NDSU and UND don't play each other, the more students come through each school that have never been introduced to the rivalry. Which means that we will have a generation of alumni that have not been introduced and will grow old not caring about the rivalry. I honestly think that this could be the beginning of the end of this rivalry. I do believe that they will play again in the future, but I don't believe it will be every year.

[star2city]

Sorry. I do not think things are quite bas bad as Walrus. UND has a great product and is finally moving in the right direction. I think we would have been much better off if we had made the move earlier, and I'm obviously still bitter about all of the resistance to the move. But at least we made it. Things would have been much worse if we had not made the move and got stuck behind the moratorium. We need to look to the future and get excited about DI, regardless of whether the rivalry resumes, or what form it resumes in. I suppose it doesn't help when I keep bringing up the past.

There are ebbs and flows in every rivalry.

When Sioux football had their losing streak against the Bison in the 80's, it seemed it was impossible we'd ever dominate them again --> proven wrong

When the Fargodome was built, many Sioux fans assumed it would be impossible to compete with NDSU again. --> proven wrong

When Amy Ruley was continually beating the Sioux women, it seemed we'd never win the big game --> proven wrong

When Grand Forks flooded, NDSU fans assumed UND never would be "back" - -> proven wrong

When the REA was built, UND men's basketball was viewed as an ascending power with the REA as a recruiting and drawing card --> proven wrong

The trends we see now, will not continue forever. Expect the unexpected.

[Diggler]

If the UND-NDSU rivalry dies, it is really really really sad. If I could only go to one game every year it would be the UND-NDSU football game and it's not even close. To think that it won't happen is terrible. And if it stops because NDSU and/or UND have to administration act like a bunch of children, it will be a crime.

[The Walrus]

Talk about negativity.

Not True....I have been "Cheerful Person of the Week"...runner-up.....how about you....?

[Hammersmith]

As far as IA football, many UND fans find it unthinkable for us, but yet possible for NDSU? The MAC and WAC have better geographic / media candidates. The best hope NDSU has for a IA football league is that somehow the Gateway morphs into a IA league or somehow the Big Sky will morph into a IA league with associate members. With either situation, getting to the minimum 8 teams will be a major hurdle, and UND, with a refurbished Memorial Stadium (or new stadium) would not be out of the picture.

Just wondering what you meant by that. I didn't think there was any FBS minimum requirement, or if there was, I thought it was six. Regardless of anything else, there will be an overlap. UND becomes a counter in 2009 and NDSU can't move up until 2011.

edit: Never mind, I found it. Never noticed that one before.

Why am I, a Bison fan, here? Two reasons. One, I love complicated processes like a DI move or the inner workings of a university. Two, what UND does affects NDSU. Recruiting, money, conference situations all change depending on whether or not UND is in the picture. To understand NDSU, I must keep up with what's happening up north. The second is why I read, the first is why I post.

Personally, I only want to see NDSU go FBS if it's with the Missouri Valley. I feel both the MAC and the WAC would be sideways moves rather than forward ones. And I have a better chance of walking on the moon than NDSU has of getting into the Mountain West. The Gateway will be folded back into the MVC in the next couple of years and there's a chance the conference could go FBS around 2015. Not a big chance, but a chance. If NDSU has continued basketball success(and a new arena) and SDSU rights their ship, both would become full MVC members during the move up. I'd only give it a 15% chance of happening at the moment, but last year I only gave it 10%. By 2015, who knows?

[BostonSiouxFan]

They're good, but not as good as they think they are. If the two teams were to play it would be anybody's ballgame. If they played 10 times I would expect them to each win 5. But the fact of the matter is they aren't on our schedule and we shouldn't even waste our breath talking about them. They're insignificant to the status of our football team. Until they conjure up the courage to play us again we shouldn't give them the attention they so desperately crave.

DaveK,

You write the worst posts on this entire board. You hate NDSU, we all get it. If they played this year, the Bison would DESTROY UND. I'm a Sioux fan, and would be pulling for the Sioux all the way, but I'm also a realist.

NDSU had the balls to make the move up a few years ago when DII was going to hell, and UND didn't have the guts. Everyone in GF mocked and ridiculed them, and now the Sioux are making the move too. I only hope UND has half of the success NDSU football and basketball has had since the move.

Also, UND stopped the series, not NDSU. What do you mean NDSU needs to "conjure up the courage to play us again"?

And before everyone starts in on me, I am a UND alum and Sioux fan. I'm not however blind to reality as so many Sioux fans on this board.