Big news in the wind

[choyt3]

a couple of emails

[siouxyeahyeah]

Wasn't Harmeson one of the head cheerleaders for Buning in the hiring process, or is my middle-aged memory failing me?

No. Kupchella was the one waving his pom poms for Buning.

[dagies]

a couple of emails

I'm not sure it's fair to use the Hakstol email as an example in this case. Hakstol is only saying that he wants to put off contract negotiations until after the season, but he isn't necessarily criticizing Buning.

[Bison Dan]

From the Herald - "A volunteer alumnus (Dan Martinsen) is allowed to act without accountability on the Presidents behalf, while camping in my organization, to freely criticize my administration to coaches and constituents."

How can anyone think this was a good idea? If you were Buning would you like this?

[Sioux-cia]

"I lost my cool this morning with Tom (Buning). It's game day, and we still do not have game tickets for the families, parking passes for the families or sideline passes for coaches.

"Plus, we have no clear explanation on how everyone will get into the game (ball boys, filmers, etc.). I'm dealing with issues that have nothing to do with the game on game day. Unbelievable!"

A SS.com member posted this in the football forum last month. Looks like SS.com got the 'scoop' before the Herald did. Maybe a "volunteer alumnus" was worried that he was going to lose his role to

act without accountability on the Presidents behalf, while camping in my organization, to freely criticize my administration to coaches and constituents."

and is helping to 'muddy the waters'.

Again, I have no 'insider' information regarding Buning's effectiveness in running the athletic department but as I read what is printed in the media it sounds to me that there's $hit going on on both sides of the fence.

Just saying......

[Sioux-cia]

The 'volunteer alumnus'.

http://www.undalumni.org/NetCommunity/Page...0&srcid=243

[Matt]

Don't AD's at most places report to the president? I thought the AD was in charge of the athletic department and his boss is the president. Is this not the case here? Are there too many cooks in the kitchen?

[Shawn-O]

Don't AD's at most places report to the president? I thought the AD was in charge of the athletic department and his boss is the president. Is this not the case here? Are there too many cooks in the kitchen?

Yes, no, and yes.

[Matt]

Telling an all-american alum that is a volunteer in the department to butt out could be tricky.

Reminds me of this...Kramer

[Sioux-cia]

Telling an all-american alum that is a volunteer in the department to butt out could be tricky.

Reminds me of this...Kramer

'Our' volunteer alumnus is also an Emerald Club big bucks donor. So yeah, it could be a tricky situation somewhere else. But in this case, the one that wants him to butt out is the one being butted out, so it's not gonna be a problem.

[Shawn-O]

Telling an all-american alum that is a volunteer in the department to butt out could be tricky.

Reminds me of this...Kramer

Having him report to the President's office was an obvious mistake. Another Kupchella organizational blunder. Where is ol' Hal Holbrook, anyway?

[Matt]

Having him report to the President's office was an obvious mistake. Another Kupchella organizational blunder. Where is ol' Hal Holbrook, anyway?

He got killed by Dirty Harry. I couldn't resist.

[PCM]

As long as we're making points through YouTube...

[Sioux-cia]

He got killed by Dirty Harry. I couldn't resist.

The quote, 'Your organization's through...' sent a chill up my spine.

[THETRIOUXPER]

As long as we're making points through YouTube...

What are you trying to say? Maybe buning should seek out a career in the personal defense industry?

[Bison Dan]

'Our' volunteer alumnus is also an Emerald Club big bucks donor. So yeah, it could be a tricky situation somewhere else. But in this case, the one that wants him to butt out is the one being butted out, so it's not gonna be a problem.

That's the kind of thinking that's wrong with this whole situation. You don't inject an employee into someones department that the head of the dept. has no control over. Things like this never turn out good. I don't care if he's an Emerald Club donor or not. If the AD doesn't have TOTAL control over his dept. it's a recipe for trouble. If UND thought that Buning wasn't getting the job done they should have manned up and fired him earlier.

[Riverman]

Reading: Bunnings responds to Survey makes me realize Bunning did a good job. But didn't get along with some people because his "good job" of balancing the budget hurt some peoples feelings..."aka the good ol' boys." The question needs to be asked: Where is the line between "books" and "street" smarts in todays world? You could be the best to ever exist at your job but if the people you work with don't want to work with you....You're Done (doesn't matter how).

or, better yet...How far can and should office politics go in an organization before it gets destructive to that organization?

Very well put. IMHO, from an outsider reading the comments that were made in the Herald today. I too am

thinking this "Good Old Boys Network" needs a shake up.

[iramurphy]

That's the kind of thinking that's wrong with this whole situation. You don't inject an employee into someones department that the head of the dept. has no control over. Things like this never turn out good. I don't care if he's an Emerald Club donor or not. If the AD doesn't have TOTAL control over his dept. it's a recipe for trouble. If UND thought that Buning wasn't getting the job done they should have manned up and fired him earlier.

The Alumnus was not an employee. He volunteered to assist the D1 move and his role was to advise Persident Kupchella and to raise money for the move which I understand he has done very well with. Buning did not answer to this individual. If I didn't like his actions or interactions I would have told him we need to make an appointment with the president to clarify everyone's roles so there would be no miscommunication.

You are correct in that if Buning was to be fired it should have been done earlier.

[iramurphy]

What the hell does George Ellis have to do with this? Nice way to try to detract from the subject at hand.

You are correct. NDSU and George Ellis have nothing to do with this.

[iramurphy]

A couple of points which I think are valid. Kupchella is a former faculty guy and an academician. He did a number of things very well at UND. I think his biggest mistake was not understanding the importance of intercollegiate athletics at a University and especially in a smaller University like UND. Athletics is an important tool which should be used to improve campus life for the students as entertainment and a rallying point for building loyalties to your school. It should also be used as a marketing tool to increase the visibility of your University. We do not market our athletic teams, programs nor the successes of our student athletes a well as we should. We should also tie in our music programs and fine arts programs to build an entertainment package for the University and the community and region. The new AD and president would do well to see to it that the Marching band is well funded and well supported. It can greatly improve the atmosphere of the games and events at UND and for the community. Those kids need some sort of financial aid to recognize all of the hard work required to have a first class D1 band. The band we have does a great job but we need to increase the numbers and we need the type of band kids want to attend UND to be part of. President Kupcella, though very intelligent and honorable, missed those opportunites.

I don't know why anyone's evaluation should be part of public record. In Mn. we are required to provide the public and media with a summary of similar evaluations but do not have to provide the details of someone's personal file. I believe much of that is protected by the privacy act but I am not an attorney. Bunings rating from the survey evaluation was dismal. He does, however, make some very good points in his rebuttal.

The Athletic Department must have a strategic plan and mission statement and both should be referred to frequently. They should have the approval of the president so in cases like this you should easily know if you are adherring to the strategic plan and leading your department within the parameters set up by that plan and your own mission statement. You must also have and adhere to your budget. If so, it would be difficult to fire you.

It is clear Buning had a number of problems. He had coaches upset with him and he had staff quitting for whatever reason. Things weren't getting done as evidenced by the gameday issues for FB referred to in a different post. To blame his demise on the "good old boys" would be a cop-out. I have been associated with UND athletics in some form or another for 37 years. I am not sure who the "good old boys" are but in most situations it is not us and it is the reason that things occur to others when we don't agree or understand. To some it is why Gino or Roger Thomas were hired and to others it is why they moved on. UND, over the years, has done a pretty good job of isolating employees from the whims of alumni and the booster groups. When you have employees, volunteers, alumni, coaches and eventually your supervisors lose faith in you then maybe you haven't sone as well as you should have. This seems to be the case and not the "good old boys".

What should have occured was Kupchella should have called Buning in and let him know if he was disatisfied and was going to make a change and then negotiated an end to the relationship. It should have occured before the school year started. I know he looks to Harmeson as his right hand man, and relies and his recommendations but in the end the President needs to handle the dismissal of an AD. I also do not know what Harmeson knows nor the details of the Leave of Absence. In Mn. you cannot dilvulge reasons for the laeve of absence in many cases and with Harmeson being an attorney, I suspect he knows that. I am still puzzled at the release of the survey info but I assume it wasn't protected under the privacy act. Kupchella and Harmeson need to negotiate whatever buyout they need to do and bring this to closure ASAP. That could be what they are trying to do and are using the LOA to get this done but it seems it may have been prudent to have negotiated something this summer and made a quick and clean end to the issue.

Lastly, I agree with our AC friends this has nothing to do with them or their own personel issues over the years.

[PCM]

What are you trying to say? Maybe buning should seek out a career in the personal defense industry?

Exactly. I'm glad I didn't have to draw you a picture this time.

[THETRIOUXPER]

Exactly. I'm glad I didn't have to draw you a picture this time.

Well, all those push-ups he did are going to pay off then aren't they.

[CDog]

Wasn't Harmeson one of the head cheerleaders for Buning in the hiring process, or is my middle-aged memory failing me?

Actually, you're right. Harmeson introduced Kupchella to Buning while all three were at the Frozen Four in Columbus. So, from the very start, Buning was Harmeson's "guy". When it later becomes evident to Harmeson that the coaches in the department had a huge problem with Buning, Harmeson tried to "cleanly" cut ties with Buning, ie: "Let's have a joint press conference where we say "we've decided to go our seperate ways, etc, etc..."...But Buning says, "I'm not going down without a fight"...this worries Harmeson a great deal because he sees himself as the next President of UND, which is humerous in itself...If Buning starts slinging mud, there is no way that Harmeson escapes this mess without a fair share of it on his face, which ultimately costs him the small chance he had at being UND President. Finally, Kupchella is in some counrty far away that starts with a 'K' and he expected Harmeson to take care of this while he was gone. Sorry Chuck, your services and UND's checkbook are needed when you get back. You will have to cut ties with Buning and write the check.

[Stromer]

Finally, Kupchella is in some counrty far away that starts with a 'K' and he expected Harmeson to take care of this while he was gone.

The only thing that is amusing is that Kup is somewhere in the ex-Soviet Union when all this is hitting the fan. You couldn't script this if you tried.

[UND Fan]

A couple of points which I think are valid. Kupchella is a former faculty guy and an academician. He did a number of things very well at UND. I think his biggest mistake was not understanding the importance of intercollegiate athletics at a University and especially in a smaller University like UND. Athletics is an important tool which should be used to improve campus life for the students as entertainment and a rallying point for building loyalties to your school. It should also be used as a marketing tool to increase the visibility of your University. We do not market our athletic teams, programs nor the successes of our student athletes a well as we should. We should also tie in our music programs and fine arts programs to build an entertainment package for the University and the community and region. The new AD and president would do well to see to it that the Marching band is well funded and well supported. It can greatly improve the atmosphere of the games and events at UND and for the community. Those kids need some sort of financial aid to recognize all of the hard work required to have a first class D1 band. The band we have does a great job but we need to increase the numbers and we need the type of band kids want to attend UND to be part of. President Kupcella, though very intelligent and honorable, missed those opportunites.

I don't know why anyone's evaluation should be part of public record. In Mn. we are required to provide the public and media with a summary of similar evaluations but do not have to provide the details of someone's personal file. I believe much of that is protected by the privacy act but I am not an attorney. Bunings rating from the survey evaluation was dismal. He does, however, make some very good points in his rebuttal.

The Athletic Department must have a strategic plan and mission statement and both should be referred to frequently. They should have the approval of the president so in cases like this you should easily know if you are adherring to the strategic plan and leading your department within the parameters set up by that plan and your own mission statement. You must also have and adhere to your budget. If so, it would be difficult to fire you.

It is clear Buning had a number of problems. He had coaches upset with him and he had staff quitting for whatever reason. Things weren't getting done as evidenced by the gameday issues for FB referred to in a different post. To blame his demise on the "good old boys" would be a cop-out. I have been associated with UND athletics in some form or another for 37 years. I am not sure who the "good old boys" are but in most situations it is not us and it is the reason that things occur to others when we don't agree or understand. To some it is why Gino or Roger Thomas were hired and to others it is why they moved on. UND, over the years, has done a pretty good job of isolating employees from the whims of alumni and the booster groups. When you have employees, volunteers, alumni, coaches and eventually your supervisors lose faith in you then maybe you haven't sone as well as you should have. This seems to be the case and not the "good old boys".

What should have occured was Kupchella should have called Buning in and let him know if he was disatisfied and was going to make a change and then negotiated an end to the relationship. It should have occured before the school year started. I know he looks to Harmeson as his right hand man, and relies and his recommendations but in the end the President needs to handle the dismissal of an AD. I also do not know what Harmeson knows nor the details of the Leave of Absence. In Mn. you cannot dilvulge reasons for the laeve of absence in many cases and with Harmeson being an attorney, I suspect he knows that. I am still puzzled at the release of the survey info but I assume it wasn't protected under the privacy act. Kupchella and Harmeson need to negotiate whatever buyout they need to do and bring this to closure ASAP. That could be what they are trying to do and are using the LOA to get this done but it seems it may have been prudent to have negotiated something this summer and made a quick and clean end to the issue.

Lastly, I agree with our AC friends this has nothing to do with them or their own personel issues over the years.

Very well said!