NDSUFREAK10 Posted August 18, 2007 Posted August 18, 2007 I'll be watching a real Division I football game (Notre Dame/Penn State) on TV the night of September 8th. However, maybe I could record NDS-who's faux Division I game and save it for some night when I'm suffering from insomnia. so when und goes DI next year, will you be saying the same stuff when und plays an FCS schedule? Different subdivisions and when will you get the point of that?? I'll try to explain it again. BOTH SUBDIVISIONS HAVE OTHER SPORTS THAT PLAY DI (Basketball, baseball, tennis, softball, soccer etc...)SINCE THAT IS ABOUT 300 SCHOOLS IN TOTAL THAT IS WAYYYY TOO MANY SCHOOLS THAT HAVE FOOTBALL TO HAVE JUST ON DIVISION OF FOOTBALL.SO NEXT THEY CREATE SUBDIVISIONS OF HOW BIG THE SCHOOLS ARE HAVE ONE PLAY BOWL GAMES (FBS) AND PLAYOFF GAMES (FCS).WHILE und GOES INTO DI THEY WILL BE IN THE FCS SUBDIVISION THAT ALSO HAS THE OTHER SPORTS PLAY A DI SCHEDULE.There might not be 100k people in the seats but it is a DI game in itself. Spend some time following FCS and not just the big boys and learn a little more about college football. Quote
bisonguy Posted August 18, 2007 Posted August 18, 2007 Your reference to UND as a "supplier" is very revealing. UND is not now, ever, nor will be a "supplier" for NDSU games: Concordia (StPaul) and Montana Tech were suppliers, but UND will not take on that role. When NDSU and SDSU announced that they were leaving the NCC, they left a business partnership with the NCC and decided to go off on a competing venture that would have ramifications for all the former NCC schools. The onus was on NDSU and SDSU to provide terms that would be amenable, as they were the ones that walked away from an existing business (NCC) contract. If a partner in a firm walks away and decides to start a competing business, how many existing firms would take kindly to it? Almost all NCC schools did not schedule NDSU, SDSU, and UNC, not out of spite, but because they needed to protect their own recruitment capability as well as the attractiveness of the NCC as a "going concern". When UNC left the NCC, NDSU didn't schedule them in their first year of transition when UNC desparately needed games. NDSU didn't schedule the game because it would have hurt their chances of DII playoffs. Under the same terms, why would UND schedule NDSU when even a win could have damaged our playoff chances? As far as RT, how do you know he was not attempting to get DII rule changes passed so UND wouldn't be penalized when he made some of those statements? Furthermore, how do you know that he if was not attempting to keep the games going beyond four years, even if UND transitioned to DI? NDSU always had a four year contract on the table and played that up in the media, but refused to offer anything beyond that. You can bet NDSU never had any intention of extending the contract beyond four years or with scheduling UND through a DI transition, if it ever occurred. Reasonable people can see that NDSU was just attempting to use UND as it's bitch to get through a four-year transition. star2city- do you believe that UND would be trying to use NDSU as it's bitch if a game was scheduled before UND has finished it's transition to DI? FWIW- I have no issue with the rivalry resuming in 2009 if possible, once UND is a DI counter. Quote
star2city Posted August 19, 2007 Posted August 19, 2007 star2city- do you believe that UND would be trying to use NDSU as it's b***h if a game was scheduled before UND has finished it's transition to DI? FWIW- I have no issue with the rivalry resuming in 2009 if possible, once UND is a DI counter. Not necessarily, as a game in 2009 wouldn't hurt NDSU when UND is a playoff counter. What I would have an issue with is if our fans get all whiney on the message boards or if Buning is moaning often to the media because "NDSU won't play us." I can also understand NDSU not wanting to play a game until 2013 because of the recruiting / scheduling advantages they have generated with their early move up. I also want UND to have a few more years of being capable of offering full scholarships to a good portion of the recruits to level the playing field some. If a game isn't going by 2013, that would be a major issue, IMHO. Quote
NDSUFREAK10 Posted August 19, 2007 Posted August 19, 2007 Once again I will tell you that I enjoy small college football divisions such as D2 and I-AA. I just don't go around trying to convince myself and others that my school's football program is big-time when it obviously is not. That won't change when they move up next year. Enjoy it for what it is, but don't try to make it out to be more than what it actually is. Don't display such an obvious inferiority complex. It isn't the same division of football that USC and Notre Dame compete in, just accept that fact and get on with the rest of your life. well technically i was pointing out the bigger atmosphere of 19k to 6-7k. Not 19,000 to 100,000 Quote
Herd Posted August 19, 2007 Posted August 19, 2007 So Dave, what is defined as Big Time college football? I want to make sure that I don't waste too much my time with small time college football, but I need some help with the definition. Questions: Are all FBS teams considered Big Time? Are just BCS conference teams considered Big Time? Are only top 50, 25 teams considered Big Time? Are only the the top 5 teams considered Big Time? You know, USC, OH St., ND, TX, MI. . . Does your stadium size determine if you are Big Time? How big is Big Time, 40000, 60000, 80000? Are teams considered Big Time or are Games considered Big Time? If a Big Time team plays a non-Big Time team, is the game Big Time? Can a DI FCS team be in any way involved in a Big Time Game even though their not a Big Time team? If an FCS team is beating a Big Time team, can it be referred to as a Big Time game? Is Boise State from the WAC considered Big Time? Is Boise State vs. Weber State Big Time? Is Boise State vs. Washington the following week Big Time? If a crappy Indiana plays a Michigan, is that considered Big Time, does it matter if it's played at IN or MI? Is Minnesota Big Time? If Minnesota plays on the road at FBS Florida Atlantic, is that considered Big Time? If App St and Youngstown play at MI and OH st in front of 100,000 people, is that considered Big Time? These are legitimate Big Time questions. Please help so I can set the Tivo ahead of the time and catch some Big Time football in 2007, minimizing my time wasted on Small Time college football!! Quote
star2city Posted August 19, 2007 Posted August 19, 2007 I'll make it as simple as I can for you. Big-time college football is anybody who gets a significant amount of highlights on SportsCenter. Not just a score on the ticker at the bottom of the screen, but actual game footage. IMHO, a definition of what is "big-time" is more relative to the level of play, rather than the amount of attention (which can often coincide) or the number of people watching. For example, when Chad Mustard made his sideline reception, or when Jim Kleinsasser outran the Bison secondary, or when Chris Kuper took out the defensive line, those were representative of big-time football. History has proven that none of those performances were flukes: historic events still occur whether 90,000,000, 90,000 or only 9000 people watch. Quote
Bison Dan Posted August 19, 2007 Posted August 19, 2007 IMHO, a definition of what is "big-time" is more relative to the level of play, rather than the amount of attention (which can often coincide) or the number of people watching. For example, when Chad Mustard made his sideline reception, or when Jim Kleinsasser outran the Bison secondary, or when Chris Kuper took out the defensive line, those were representative of big-time football. History has proven that none of those performances were flukes: historic events still occur whether 90,000,000, 90,000 or only 9000 people watch. No those were good plays - hardly historic. Quote
Bison06 Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 No those were good plays - hardly historic. I hate to be argumentative here because I really don't want any part of this little pissing match, but by that definition of big-time, do you then consider UND hockey to be big-time? Quote
Matt Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 I hate to be argumentative here because I really don't want any part of this little pissing match, but by that definition of big-time, do you then consider UND hockey to be big-time? Please God don't even start. Quote
Bison06 Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 Please God don't even start. I'm simply pointing out that you don't have to get major coverage on ESPN to be big-time. I for one think UND hockey is big-time, but they hardly get mentioned on ESPN until the Frozen Four. I also think FCS football is big-time, depending on which two teams are playing. I just think it was a bad definition of big-time, not a shot at UND hockey. Quote
Bison06 Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 Perhaps that wasn't the best defintion. I was thinking in terms of football that would describe who is big-time and who isn't because football is all over ESPN. That obviously doesn't apply to hockey because ESPN chooses not to cover that sport at the college level till the postseason. If the same logic were being applied to hockey I would replace ESPN with CSTV and have essentially the same definition. Within the context of college hockey, UND's program is big-time. There aren't any college hockey programs in the nation that are to UND what USC's football program is to NDSU's. UND is to college hockey what USC is to college football (a very good team in the top division), while NDSU is to college football what Wisconsin-Superior is to hockey (a very good team in a lower tier division). I don't think anybody in their right mind would dispute that I-AA is a lower tier division than Division I. Some will argue that they are not different divisons at all but rather different subdivisions, which is nothing more than a lame attempt at splitting hairs as far as I'm concerned. The fact of the matter is that they are two different levels of play, and I-AA is the lower tier of the two. I-AA football, like D2, is generally classified as "small college". That isn't a bad thing. It may not be big-time, but it's still very entertaining to watch. NDSU football is not big-time, and neither is UND... not that there's anything wrong with that. It is what it is. Big-time college football is USC/Notre Dame, Michigan/Ohio State, Auburn/Alabama, etc... College football experts would laugh in your face if you tried to put NDSU/SDSU into that same context. I believe this has been stated earlier on this board, but I will say it again because I believe it to be true. FCS football is as popular in the national spotlight as NCAA college hockey. I don't think one can be big-time without the other being the same. I think that SOME UND hockey fans are just as dilusional about how important thier sport is as you see SOME NDSU football fans. We both have crazies, we both have logical fans, I don't know why we can't just admit that. Quote
Bison06 Posted August 21, 2007 Posted August 21, 2007 So it's just the same argument as always, Big fish small pond vs. small fish big pond. I see them as equal on a national scale. Quote
Yote 53 Posted August 21, 2007 Posted August 21, 2007 Chiming in here from the sidelines. D1 college hockey is much bigger than FCS football. College hockey is big in the Northeast (especially Boston), the upper midwest (MN, ND, WI, MI, OH), and even out west in the rockies. While I won't say it is NATIONALLY huge, it does garner a much bigger following in some very populated areas of the country. Pretty much everywhere FCS football takes a bigtime backseat to the FBS schools. FCS football is great, and I am happy that USD will soon be a part of it, but I won't make it out to be something it is not. UND does play bigtime college hockey in the best amateur hockey conference in the world. They are one of the top teams on the top level of a sport that near half the country is interested in. There is bigtime college hockey coverage not only on CSTV but also multiple Fox Sports Net affiliates throughout the regular season and ESPN picking up coverage of the post season. Actually, I can honestly say it is easier to find a college hockey game on TV in this country than it is to find an NHL game, and I know where to find the VS channel. NDSU has a great football program, they should be proud. UND has a great hockey program...and there football team is almost as good as the Coyotes this year. So you can all agree with that, or you can continue to feud, which is a pretty fun read. Quote
dakotadan Posted August 21, 2007 Posted August 21, 2007 UND has a great hockey program...and there football team is almost as good as the Coyotes this year. We'll let that one slide for now. Come November we will find out though. It should definately be a great game down in Vermillion this year. And hopefully both of our schools will meet up in the Alerus for the northwest region championship shortly after. Quote
Diggler Posted August 21, 2007 Posted August 21, 2007 UND has a great hockey program...and there football team is almost as good as the Coyotes this year. So you can all agree with that, or you can continue to feud, which is a pretty fun read. What a proud day for USD, they are finally better than UND this year. At least according to you. Maybe the Coyotes should commission a plaque to commemorate this occasion. Quote
Yote 53 Posted August 23, 2007 Posted August 23, 2007 Maybe not a plaque, but you guys could bring Sitting Bull down to Verm in November. We'd be happy to take him off your hands. Quote
89rabbit Posted September 4, 2007 Posted September 4, 2007 The FCS label is ridiculous. I-AA is a division that is somewhere in between D1 and D2, but much much closer to D2. I have never seen a top 10 ranked I-AA beat a top 10 ranked D1 . . . You have now. Quote
89rabbit Posted September 5, 2007 Posted September 5, 2007 Dave, I will bet you enjoyed this article (sub site but it is free): http://www.in-forum.com/Sports/articles/177182 Michigan loss not shocking to all Jeff Kolpack, The Forum Division I-AA football changed its name in the off-season, and people are having trouble getting accustomed to the name Quote
Cratter Posted September 5, 2007 Posted September 5, 2007 What many national sports coumnists are calling "one of the greatest upsets of all time," is not shocking at all to a Fargo media man. Go Figure. .... More reason not to trust the Fargo Forum. Quote
LeftyZL Posted September 5, 2007 Posted September 5, 2007 Dave, I will bet you enjoyed this article (sub site but it is free): http://www.in-forum.com/Sports/articles/177182 Michigan loss not shocking to all Jeff Kolpack, The Forum So comparing victories of some pretty/really good teams in the FCS division against perenial bottom feeders in 2nd-rate leagues in the FBS, minus Northwestern and Indiana, makes this argument relavant in what way...The bottom line in all of this is the last quote in the article you pasted: Quote
star2city Posted September 6, 2007 Posted September 6, 2007 Big 12 admits bad call in Texas-Arkansas State game (Sunbelt Conference) Arkansas State coach Steve Roberts says the Big 12's coordinator of officials has acknowledged that the Indians' recovery of an onside kick was wrongly overturned in the final minute of No. 7 Texas' 21-13 victory. "We got a confirmation ... (Tuesday) that they missed the call," Roberts said. The Indians were flagged with 56 seconds left in Saturday's game for an improper formation. Texas recovered the second onside kick and ran out the clock. Roberts said the game film showed the Indians had enough players on both sides of the ball before the kick. San Antonio Express-News: College football's Big Myth will not last forever Some leagues have their credibility stolen by crooked referees. Others lose it behind the walls of high-dollar steroid laboratories. But when college football finally gets what it has coming, it won't be because of anything so sinister. When the Saturday afternoon world of tailgate parties and marching bands is shaken to its core, it will have only itself to blame. It will be brought down by its overextended ego and its own flawed system, and by whistle-blowers who look a lot like the little guys who celebrated in Ann Arbor, Mich., on Saturday. The people in charge of college football think this is an overstatement, that they're immune to problems that would make fans turn against them. But what they don't realize is the groundswell is already under way. Every time an Appalachian State upsets a Michigan, every time a Boise State shocks an Oklahoma, every time an Arkansas State pushes a Texas to the brink of humiliation, another crack forms in the sport's Big Myth. For decades, college football has force-fed us this myth, the one that says one small, elite faction of teams is inherently better than the rest and that conference presidents get to decide who belongs and who doesn't. The Big Myth has been perpetuated through TV contracts and bowl arrangements and an absurdly inadequate postseason system known as the Bowl Championship Series. But sooner or later, it will crumble, because the public will inevitably realize it's a sham. Remember, there were times in our world's history when there was communism in Europe, prohibition in America, and late fees in video stores. But eventually, people started to realize they were being forced to participate in a system that didn't work, and the whole thing fell apart. This is the kind of critical mass that will someday overwhelm college football and force it to adopt a format that makes sense. Maybe there once was a reason to exclude half of the sport's top classification from the national championship picture. But not anymore. When UT and its bulging resources need a penalty on an onsides kick to hold off Arkansas State, which has been not much more than a middle-of-the-pack Sun Belt Conference program for much of the past decade, shouldn't that mean non-BCS schools deserve at least a chance to compete for the same prizes as their richer brethren? If the people don't see it that way now, they will soon. And they might question college football even more than a crooked ref made them question the NBA. Because fixing games is bad. But fixing championships is worse. Quote
NDSUFREAK10 Posted September 10, 2007 Posted September 10, 2007 What many national sports coumnists are calling "one of the greatest upsets of all time," is not shocking at all to a Fargo media man. Go Figure. .... More reason not to trust the Fargo Forum. because most of those writers had no idea who App State was and how good they are as a team. Quote
Cratter Posted September 11, 2007 Posted September 11, 2007 because most of those writers had no idea who App State was and how good they are as a team. Define "good." Better yet. It doesn't matter if they don't know who App State is. It's one of the grestest upsets is because....... It has NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE. I have never seen a top 10 ranked I-AA beat a top 10 ranked D1 The Forum says otherwise cause they have an agenda. Quote
TheBisonator Posted September 11, 2007 Posted September 11, 2007 The Forum says otherwise cause they have an agenda. And the Herald is in no way whatsoever a mouthpiece for the UND administration?? Quote
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