NCAA Wants Documents Sealed

[The Sicatoka]

Is it Wednesday yet?

I want to hear the NCAA's argument for sealing the documentation of their star chamber activities.

It should be good comedy.

Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock.

[southpaw]

hearing is done. jahnke says he'll make a decision at a later date.

[Chewey]

hearing is done. jahnke says he'll make a decision at a later date.

How did the hearing "seem" to go?? Did he ask one side a lot more questions than the other? I would have loved to have been there. Were there any "protest" minded knobs outside of the courthouse?

[PCM]

WDAZ says that Jahnke will make a decison on whether or not the NCAA's records are confidential in about a week. It also reported that Jahnke again encouraged both sides to settle out of court. There was little information on the arguments made by the two sides. The NCAA attorney said the records were confedential. The North Dakota attorney (Tag Anderson, I believe) said that the records weren't covered under the NCAA's constitution and bylaws.

[Chewey]

WDAZ says that Jahnke will make a decison on whether or not the NCAA's records are confidential in about a week. It also reported that Jahnke again encouraged both sides to settle out of court. There was little information on the arguments made by the two sides. The NCAA attorney said the records were confedential. The North Dakota attorney (Tag Anderson, I believe) said that the records weren't covered under the NCAA's constitution and bylaws.

I think it's clear that there is not settlement potential on this issue. The U wants to keep the name and logo and the NC00 wants both gone; it's that simple and it's not going to change. The NC00 has exhibited no reasonableness at all and that is not going to change because of the PC mentality. While I appreciate the Judge's sentiments, he should not overdo it. I don't think the U is going to agree to a "phased out" use of the nickname and logo over a number of years, if that's even a consideration. Perhaps some sort of "sensitivity" courses mandated at the U? Judges have too much concern over clearing their calendars. "Settlement" is often suggested where it's not appropriate and I think this is one of those cases.

[PCM]

I think it's clear that there is not settlement potential on this issue. The U wants to keep the name and logo and the NC00 wants both gone; it's that simple and it's not going to change. The NC00 has exhibited no reasonableness at all and that is not going to change because of the PC mentality.

I agree. However, in this case, if the NCAA's own bylaws and constitution clearly spell out which of the organization's information is public and which isn't, then I don't think the organization has much of a leg to stand on.

Jahnke's suggestion to settle out of court might have been his way of telling the NCAA that if it didn't want the information to be public, it better figure out a way to cut a deal with UND.

[Siouxman]

I believe that the NCAA is not used to doing things that get challenged, and is now finding itself in a deep hole with how it conducts business. First, I don't see any possible way the NCAA can settle out of court or they are admitting that they were wrong. Much worse, from their perspective, their dirty laundry is now about to be made public and it is scaring the hell out of them.

I work in a business where absolutely everything that I do is subject to scrutiny by regulatory agencies. And I mean everything, emails, notes, conversations, even little scribblings I may do as part of a study. Every scrap of everything is subject to discovery. The only items that can be protected are proprietary business information (such as costs, detailed contracts, etc.) and customer specific information. The rest is up for grabs. It is not a pleasant world in which to work sometimes. And if you aren't used to that level of scrutiny, it can scare the hell out of you.

[Diggler]

I believe that the NCAA is not used to doing things that get challenged, and is now finding itself in a deep hole with how it conducts business. First, I don't see any possible way the NCAA can settle out of court or they are admitting that they were wrong. Much worse, from their perspective, their dirty laundry is now about to be made public and it is scaring the hell out of them.

Well should they lose this, they'll have to choose one or the other.

[sioux7>5]

Why would the judge want their to be a settlement, and the fact that he is encouraging a settlement is that good for UND or bad for them. Can someone give me some guidance on this please. Thanks

[PCM]

Why would the judge want their to be a settlement, and the fact that he is encouraging a settlement is that good for UND or bad for them. Can someone give me some guidance on this please. Thanks

I'm told that it's quite common in civil suits for judges to urge both sides to settle out of court. I don't think you should take that as the judge telling UND it should settle on the NCAA's terms. Who knows? If Jahnke rules that the records must remain open, it might be just the incentive the NCAA needs to get serious about reaching a compromise.

[sioux7>5]

I'm told that it's quite common in civil suits for judges to urge both sides to settle out of court. I don't think you should take that as the judge telling UND it should settle on the NCAA's terms. Who knows? If Jahnke rules that the records must remain open, it might be just the incentive the NCAA needs to get serious about reaching a compromise.

Ok, Thanks PCM. I appreciate the input.

[Goon]

The only way I see UND settling with the NCAA is one where UND gets to keep its logo and host NCAA events other than that no compromise.

[PCM]

The only way I see UND settling with the NCAA is one where UND gets to keep its logo and host NCAA events other than that no compromise.

Henry Clay you're not.

[Diggler]

Henry Clay you're not.

I bet Goon could beat up Henry Clay though along with Clay Henry.

[Goon]

I bet Goon could beat up Henry Clay though along with Clay Henry.

A fighting I am not, instigator probably. I had never even heard of this guy before. I was wondering if PCM ever slept?

PCM is like everywhere. In this case I think the NCAA has to be slapped and I think nothing would be better than watching the judge tell the NCAA your wrong; it doesn't take a genius to see that the NCAA picked a fight with us because they wanted to make an example out of us. UND fighting back and I believe is doing the right thing. I believe if the NCAA loses this case it will set in motion a can of whoop ass the NCAA never wanted to face. If the NCAA was so confident they could have had a vote by the university president but they chose not too.

I also believe the NCAA wants to seal the records because they have something to hide that won't be very flattering to their case. I believe the public needs to see what is in these documents. I wonder if the UND legal team found out what a Kangaroo court most of us thought they already were. Time for bed.

[GeauxSioux]

Under wraps?

The school already has received about 4,000 pages of documents from the NCAA, most of which were at one time available on the association's Web site, Anderson said.

Corwin said UND has requested about 80 more entire categories of documents, comprising many thousands of pages. He said many of those documents are only marginally relevant to the nickname case and publicly disclosing them would leave the NCAA very little room to operate as a private association.

[ScottM]

Corwin said UND has requested about 80 more entire categories of documents, comprising many thousands of pages. He said many of those documents are only marginally relevant to the nickname case and publicly disclosing them would leave the NCAA very little room to operate as a private association.

Is this his first case that didn't involve an auto accident or a dog bite? I don't know what it's like in his world, but in mine we can be forced to generate truckloads of discovery, much of which is considered "confidential" by the parties, but not by the courts. This includes meeting minutes, internal memos, email, phone logs, voice mails, agreements, etc. And there are firms that specialize in ferreting out "lost" or "destroyed" electronic and voice data, so that excuse won't fly either. If you're found to have wrongly fully destroyed evidence or items that could be considered evidence, prepare to lose and write a big check. About the only things that can't be discovered are things they don't ask for and most attorney-client communications and work product.

[sprig]

Henry Clay you're not.

Was Henry a classmate?

[PCM]

Was Henry a classmate?

I knew Henry Clay. Henry Clay was a friend of mine. You, sir, are no Henry Clay!

[GeauxSioux]

NC Double Secret

I have a couple thoughts on this. Of course the biggest one is

[roper1313]

Is this his first case that didn't involve an auto accident or a dog bite? I don't know what it's like in his world, but in mine we can be forced to generate truckloads of discovery, much of which is considered "confidential" by the parties, but not by the courts. This includes meeting minutes, internal memos, email, phone logs, voice mails, agreements, etc. And there are firms that specialize in ferreting out "lost" or "destroyed" electronic and voice data, so that excuse won't fly either. If you're found to have wrongly fully destroyed evidence or items that could be considered evidence, prepare to lose and write a big check. About the only things that can't be discovered are things they don't ask for and most attorney-client communications and work product.

Come on scottM, Wick is one of better commercial litegators in the area, who's firm was hired by the NCAA. He's doing his best for his client, which is what you would want from your attorney. I don't agree with him, but this is no reason to compare him to your typical ambulance chaser. THe NCAA wanted good local representation and got it.

FYI, goon may actually like him. His a big time suporter of DU and has some great hunting land outside of Dawson.

[The Sicatoka]

I don't buy one bit of their "chilling" argument line. The words "company confidential" don't mean shine-ola, especially if it's information directly pertinent to a lawsuit. (And guess what: If your "trade secret" is suspected as having caused the harm that is the base of the case it ain't gonna be a secret much longer either is my bet.)

Now, to Tag Anderson's point in court:

The first time the root word "confidential" (as 'confidentiality') appears in the 2006-2007 DI manual is on page 441, Section 32 "Enforcement Policies and Procedures." It is only used in that section and Section 33 "Athletics Certification Policies and Procedures". In those sections it explicitly lays out what is confidential information in the NCAA. Nowhere in the previous 440 pages of the contract (manual document), where all of the legislative process and committee structures and bylaws and operating procedures are defined, is the term used. (Sections 32 and 33 are the last two of the document/contract.)

[southpaw]

quick question for the legal types out there...

correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe the AG's office can use any and all documents during the actual proceedings. the only thing this ruling (assuming jahnke rules in favor of releasing the documents) will do is allow the public to see the documents before they make their way into the courtroom. or am i wrong and does this keep the AG's office from using those documents during their court case?

[HockeyMom]

quick question for the legal types out there...

correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe the AG's office can use any and all documents during the actual proceedings. the only thing this ruling (assuming jahnke rules in favor of releasing the documents) will do is allow the public to see the documents before they make their way into the courtroom. or am i wrong and does this keep the AG's office from using those documents during their court case?

I think it bars the AG's office from using them in the court case.

[SportsDoc]

Is this his first case that didn't involve an auto accident or a dog bite? I don't know what it's like in his world, but in mine we can be forced to generate truckloads of discovery, much of which is considered "confidential" by the parties, but not by the courts. This includes meeting minutes, internal memos, email, phone logs, voice mails, agreements, etc. And there are firms that specialize in ferreting out "lost" or "destroyed" electronic and voice data, so that excuse won't fly either. If you're found to have wrongly fully destroyed evidence or items that could be considered evidence, prepare to lose and write a big check. About the only things that can't be discovered are things they don't ask for and most attorney-client communications and work product.

Can they just pull a Scooter Libby: "I don't remember." defense?