NCAA Wants Documents Sealed

[Chewey]

Chewey:

Good points. I stand corrected.

Fred

I remember Dark Star's and Brian Bonin's arrogance before they came to Grand Forks om 1996. Strikingly similar to the NC00. They got their asses kicked when they got there. Hopefully, the same will happen to the NC00 if ND has any backbone.

[Goon]

So what do you all think can be read from Paulsen's comments? Do they mean that there will be an imminent wobbly fest? I don't think the university/state would spend 600K just to go all wobbly at this point but that is just my opinion. What do you think is going on behind closed doors between the AG and the Board and between UND/state and the NC00?

I am thinking that he is already thought about caving to the P.C. Nazis, if this law suit does have a favorable result. It could also be looked as if we lose the law suit that there will be some alternative name/logo coming that is a result of a discussion with the NCAA, the Board of Higher Ed and the University. I also think that it's a shot across the bow of the Pro-Name change people so they don't start working over the next UND president like they did last time when Chuck was elected...

[GeauxSioux]

Diplomatic course?

While UND fast approaches its December courtroom battle against the NCAA over the Fighting Sioux nickname, the Ralph Engelstad Arena is working on what general manager Jody Hodgson calls a parallel diplomatic track.

But some Sioux leaders argue the arena's approach lacks diplomacy.

Early this summer, the arena hired Sam Dupris, an enrolled member of the Cheyenne River Sioux tribe, on a contract basis, to meet with local Sioux officials and invite them to discuss the nickname and its future with arena officials, Hodgson said.

[Chewey]

Diplomatic course?

[Diggler]

It's like the National Enquirer. Sheesh. What a bunch of foolishness.

[PCM]

According to the Herald:

UND is suing the NCAA over a 2005 policy barring schools with American Indian logos, nicknames or mascots from competing in postseason play or hosting playoff games.

Really? Because the NCAA news release announcing the anti-American Indian nickname policy says:

"The presidents and chancellors who serve on the NCAA Executive Committee have adopted a new policy to prohibit NCAA colleges and universities from displaying hostile and abusive racial/ethnic/national origin mascots, nicknames or imagery at any of the 88 NCAA championships."

And apparently there was a series of e-mails between Kupchella and Engelstad that nobody knew about until now:

Much of that attention stems from a series of e-mails in December 2000 in which Engelstad threatened to halt construction on the unfinished arena after UND President Charles Kupchella suggested he might be willing to drop the nickname.

Ralph wrote a letter that he made public. Kupchella wrote an e-mail to a member of the State Board of Higher Education that's frequently quoted out of context to support the idea that the president of UND was on the verge of changing the name until Engelstad's letter came out. If there was a series of e-mails between Kupchella and Engelstad, it'd sure be nice if the Herald would publish them so the public could see what was discussed.

Gotta love this bit of editorializing:

UND officials have denied any connection between the school's decision to retain the nickname over NCAA demands and the influence of the arena managers or the Engelstad Foundation.

Of course, it can't possibly be that "UND officials" oppose changing the name because it goes against the basic principle of free expression. It can't be because they know the NCAA's characterization of UND as an institution that's "hostile and abusive" to American Indians is a lie. It can't be because they know that allowing the lie to stand unfairly and unjustly tarnishes everything the university has accomplished in Native American education. It can't be because the NCAA flagrantly breeched its contract with UND.

No, the only possible reason "UND officials" won't change the name and buckle to the pressure from the NCAA and name-change activists is because is because of Ralph's money.

Edited August 19, 2007 by PCM

[Goon]

According to the Herald:

Really? Because the NCAA news release announcing the anti-American Indian nickname policy says:

And apparently there was a series of e-mails between Kupchella and Engelstad that nobody knew about until now:

Ralph wrote a letter that he made public. Kupchella wrote an e-mail to a member of the State Board of Higher Education that's frequently quoted out of context to support the idea that the president of UND was on the verge of changing the name until Engelstad's letter came out. If there was a series of e-mails between Kupchella and Engelstad, it'd sure be nice if the Herald would publish them so the public could see what was discussed.

Gotta love this bit of editorializing:

Of course, it can't possibly be that "UND officials" oppose changing the name because it goes against the basic principle of free expression. It can't be because they know the NCAA's characterization of UND as an institution that's "hostile and abusive" to American Indians is a lie. It can't be because they know that know allowing the lie to stand unfairly and unjustly tarnishes everything the university has accomplished in Native American education. It can't be because the NCAA flagrantly breeched its contract with UND.

No, the only possible reason "UND officials" won't change the name and buckle to the pressure from the NCAA and name-change activists is because is because of Ralph's money.

You know I read that article twice and it does appear that the article was a hatchet job, but you really did a good job of removing any doubt...

This Joseph Marks, Herald Staff Writer clown surely is against the UND name, I mean that is the only conclusion I can come to from reading his venom. It sounds like he called over to the pro-name change people and said hey, what are the points you want me to hit with my article?

[Teeder11]

You know I read that article twice and it does appear that the article was a hatchet job, but you really did a good job of removing any doubt...

This Joseph Marks, Herald Staff Writer clown surely is against the UND name, I mean that is the only conclusion I can come to from reading his venom. It sounds like he called over to the pro-name change people and said hey, what are the points you want me to hit with my article?

Of course he did. Just like Kevin Fee did, just like Steve Foss did, just like Ian Swanson did, just like Mike Benedict did, just like Dave Dodds did, etc.... don't you know, it's a prereq to get the prized "UND beat" you have to be against the name. It's that simple.

[Goon]

Of course he did. Just like Kevin Fee did, just like Steve Foss did, just like Ian Swanson did, just like Mike Benedict did, just like Dave Dodds did, etc.... don't you know, it's a prereq to get the prized "UND beat" you have to be against the name. It's that simple.

Well at least we know where they stand and it's apparent what their agenda is. God I knew there was a reason I cancelled that rag.

Too bad I was stupid enough to re-instate it.

[Teeder11]

Well at least we know where they stand and it's apparent what their agenda is. God I knew there was a reason I cancelled that rag.

Too bad I was stupid enough to re-instate it.

Yeah, a fool is born every minute. .

Listen. Time out a minute.

I love the Fighting Sioux nickname as much as most on this board... I am a die-hard fan and would never want the name changed -- ever!

That said. A little balance is sometimes needed on here where a lot of piling on takes place amid the saftey of anonymity.

Case in point -- When I was a student at UND in mid 1990s, I became good friends with a lot of the media in town. I dealt a lot with the Dakota Student on campus, I had an internship with the Herald and did some work with DAZ. My experiences were warm with all and are treasured to this day. I became very good friends with some of these people. Some who get trashed on here a lot for being biased are actually big Sioux fans and would never want the name changed.

One of my best friends still writes for the paper and used to actually be a UND beat writer. He's also one of the biggest Sioux fans I know apart from me. He told me once, while we were attending a Sioux hockey game a few years ago (not in the Herald box), that he got criticized from both sides of the nickname issue all the time, and that he thought that meant he was being as balanced as he could and not favoring one side over the other. He said it was hard to report the news, because inevitably one side would not be happy. He just shook his head and wondered if the the nickname proponents could wrap their brains around the fact that, unbeknownst to them, he was rubbing elbows with them and cheering as loud as them, screaming Go Sioux, at the games.

I noticed some editorial licenses taken in today's story by Joseph Mark, some of them have already been pointed out on this board. But, frankly, and again, as a pro-nickname guy, I don't think those particular instances were that aggregious when compared to the entire issue that the writer was trying to get across. I think instead of assassinating the messenger, in this case, we should be taking our displeasure out on Myra Pearson and David Gipp for not wanting to address the issue again. In my opinion, that is gutless and a diservice to the people in which they serve.

I have seen similar editorial licencing used on Web sites and publications that people on here would regard as nickname friendly, but again, these were not a great concern when tested against the more important points of the nickname issue as a whole. I would exclude the work done on U.S. College Hockey Online by their local writer, Patrick C. Miller. That stuff seems to always be impeccably well done and well sourced. That's a credit to him to churn that stuff out on deadline day in and day out. But, in these cases, I seldom see anyone on here point out minor glossing over of simple facts. However, I would not expect it nor call for it, either.

It's all about perspective, I guess.

Ok. Have at it. Just remember -- I am one of you.

Fred

UND alumnus

Canmore, Alberta

[Sioux-cia]

I would exclude the work done on U.S. College Hockey Online by their local writer, Patrick C. Miller. That stuff seems to always be impeccably well done and well sourced. That's a credit to him to churn that stuff out on deadline day in and day out.

Yup...

[sioux7>5]

That guy Patrick Miller really knows his stuff. I tell you he gets it right all the time. What a great voice for the Sioux!

[jimdahl]

Effort to settle nickname fight draws criticism

However, Spirit Lake Nation Chairwoman Myra Pearson said that when she met with Dupris on July 18, he encouraged her to rethink the Tribal Council

[Goon]

That guy Patrick Miller really knows his stuff. I tell you he gets it right all the time. What a great voice for the Sioux!

Yeah I think PCM Rules...

[sprig]

Yup...

Age apparently increases impeccability

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Effort to settle nickname fight draws criticism

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

UND, NCAA head back to discovery - No Settlement?

One question for the crowd: how does one get on your State Board of Higher Ed? Is it a popular election, appointment by a politician (the Illinois method, unfortunately) or some other method?

[Chewey]

[Sioux-cia]

The Sioux Nation most certainly has more important issues to deal with

Rising number of teenage suicides and suicide attempts,

Poor high school graduation and post high school education rates,

High unemployment rates,

Elder abuse,

Poor health care,

Alcohol and drug abuse,

etc.,

Strong supporter that I am of the Sioux name and loge, I don't believe that it should be a priority for the Sioux. If Pearson is truly putting her time into the above and other issues important to ALL the Sioux people, I can't find fault with her not wanting to bother with our Sioux name and logo.... as long as she doesn't find the time to oppose it, of course.

[Chewey]

The Sioux Nation most certainly has more important issues to deal with

Rising number of teenage suicides and suicide attempts,

Poor high school graduation and post high school education rates,

High unemployment rates,

Elder abuse,

Poor health care,

Alcohol and drug abuse,

etc.,

Strong supporter that I am of the Sioux name and loge, I don't believe that it should be a priority for the Sioux. If Pearson is truly putting her time into the above and other issues important to ALL the Sioux people, I can't find fault with her not wanting to bother with our Sioux name and logo.... as long as she doesn't find the time to oppose it, of course.

That's just it though. I agree entirely that there are more important issues facing the members of that tribe and all indians. But, certain tribal members have found enough time to not only voice opposition to the name but also actually meet with with NC00 about the "policy" of the NC00 vis-a-vis UND.

[Sioux-cia]

But, certain tribal members have found enough time to not only voice opposition to the name but also actually meet with with NC00 about the "policy" of the NC00 vis-a-vis UND.

That is so true. I think, but I may be wrong , that the NA's that meet with the NC$$ are NOT tribal members of any Sioux tribe and perhaps not with any of the tribes involved in this current NC$$ fiasco. Or is they are, they are not 'leaders'. Does anyone know if this is the case?

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

That's just it though. I agree entirely that there are more important issues facing the members of that tribe and all indians. But, certain tribal members have found enough time to not only voice opposition to the name but also actually meet with with NC00 about the "policy" of the NC00 vis-a-vis UND.

Exactly. Those issues (and many others) face everyone, regardless of race. But OTOH, the NCAA has pushed a word and a drawing the very tip-top of THEIR priority list. Ahead of alcohol abuse, violent crime (even model institution Iowa has a crime problem) and a lot of other campus problems that actually hurt people; not just cause hurt feelings.

If the Chairwoman doesn't think this should be her priority as a tribal leader, then every time she sees a member of her tribe on TV or in the newspaper at a protest, I hope she calls him/her up and says "listen, quit going to those protests-come over here and help me out with my priority list".

And both the Seminoles and the Utes as tribes also face same that same long list of problems, correct? Yet those tribes somehow squeezed the NCAA problem into their schedule. Why is that? (Answer: $$$$$$)

Finally, I'll mention that one of the most off-the-wall of our loons at Illinois was a full (tenured) professor of Cellular Biology (or something like that). When some people asked why he shouldn't be fired, the squealers mentioned his "important work", how he was "finding a cure for cancer", etc. A whole lot of people mentioned he'd have a lot more time for finding that cancer cure if he wasn't running around making Xeroxs of newspapers and mailing them to recuits, etc.

[siouxforeverbaby]

One question for the crowd: how does one get on your State Board of Higher Ed? Is it a popular election, appointment by a politician (the Illinois method, unfortunately) or some other method?

the Governor appoints them. 7 citizens, 1 student, and then a nonvoting faculty advisor person which is selected by the Council of College Facilties.

SBHE

[Chewey]

Exactly. Those issues (and many others) face everyone, regardless of race. But OTOH, the NCAA has pushed a word and a drawing the very tip-top of THEIR priority list. Ahead of alcohol abuse, violent crime (even model institution Iowa has a crime problem) and a lot of other campus problems that actually hurt people; not just cause hurt feelings.

If the Chairwoman doesn't think this should be her priority as a tribal leader, then every time she sees a member of her tribe on TV or in the newspaper at a protest, I hope she calls him/her up and says "listen, quit going to those protests-come over here and help me out with my priority list".

And both the Seminoles and the Utes as tribes also face same that same long list of problems, correct? Yet those tribes somehow squeezed the NCAA problem into their schedule. Why is that? (Answer: $$$$$$)

Finally, I'll mention that one of the most off-the-wall of our loons at Illinois was a full (tenured) professor of Cellular Biology (or something like that). When some people asked why he shouldn't be fired, the squealers mentioned his "important work", how he was "finding a cure for cancer", etc. A whole lot of people mentioned he'd have a lot more time for finding that cancer cure if he wasn't running around making Xeroxs of newspapers and mailing them to recuits, etc.

I have never figured out why that moron was not fired. Obviously, no one had a spine at all. Slandering an institution like that certainly would be actionable and certainly should have served as a reasonable basis to get rid of that kook. I bet the prospective athletes simply did not attend the UofI because they found out that loons like that idiot might be teaching them. One would think the alumni would have had enough of him. How would you rate him compared to Ward "Indian Wannabe" Churchill?

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

I have never figured out why that moron was not fired...... I bet the prospective athletes simply did not attend the UofI because they found out that loons like that idiot might be teaching them.

Why wasn't he fired? Tenure. Short of murder and/or actually doing the things Micheal Jackson was accused of, a tenured prof can be there for life.

And most prospective recruits simply laughed at the "information". Some HS coaches had the guts to say that they actually tossed the stuff in the garbage without giving it to the student (and I'm sure that's against federal law).