DI scheduling

[bisonguy]

Sadly, market rate is going to go up no matter what. That's the constant. Consider it more bang for the buck. And instead of the MSU (can't manage a clock vs Concordia) Moorhead Dragons or UM-Crookston it'll be Alpo, er, I mean Valpo and such.

IIRC- it took $75k to bring Northeastern to the Fargodome.

[mksioux]

So our future (UND) holds that we will still be playing the Moreheads and Crookstons of the area just paying them more......Great Idea....?

I'd like UND to play Morehead State. I hear Phil Simms went there.

Crookston, on the other hand, should never be on a UND football schedule ever again. That was a disgrace.

[nd1sufan]

I'd like UND to play Morehead State. I hear Phil Simms went there.

Crookston, on the other hand, should never be on a UND football schedule ever again. That was a disgrace.

I believe Morehead State is in the same conference as Valpo (Non-scholarship), so they would probably come to Grand Forks for a price. Really don't think you want them since it would be a massive blowout.

Stay away from going to any either of the Montana Schools since they both apparently have no trouble of backing out of contracts to return games on the road. Montana burned SDSU and Montana State burned NDSU. Make them come to Grand Forks first.

[GeauxSioux]

Stay away from going to any either of the Montana Schools since they both apparently have no trouble of backing out of contracts to return games on the road. Montana burned SDSU and Montana State burned NDSU. Make them come to Grand Forks first.

Or have someone with half a brain write the contract making a buyout painful.

[The Walrus]

Interesting that after all the years in the Big Sky, that Montana still has to pay 50,000 to fill schedule with a RMAC D2 School....?

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_6978479

I should have been more clear to make my point...

I would hope our future (UND) after the big move,we would not have to resort to playing any Div 2 oppents. I can understand during transition it will be difficult to schedule, however I would hope that we would eventually play a 12 game schedule with complete FCS (1AA) or a FBS (1A) games.

I find it alarming that Montana (est program / conference) could only schedule 11 games against some weak FCS (1AA), their conference oppents and then still have a need to fill with a sub par Div 2 oppent for 50,000......?

I am hoping this is not the future landscap for UND and it's Big Move.

[NDSU grad]

I sould have been more clear to make my point...

I would hope our future (UND) after the big move,we would not have to resort to playing any Div 2 oppents. I can understand during transition it will be difficult to schedule, however I would hope that we would eventually play a 12 game schedule with complete FCS (1AA) or a FBS (1A) games.

I find it alarming that Montana (est program / conference) could only schedule 11 games against some weak FCS (1AA), their conference oppents and then still have a need to fill with a sub par Div 2 oppentor 50,000......?

I am hoping this is not the future landscap for UND and it's Big Move.

The problem is not filling out a schedule with DI opponents. It's filling out a schedule with DI opponents and still maintaining a profitable athletic department. Montana apparently refuses to play anyone on the road, and a DII opponent will come to Montana cheaper than a FCS opponent would. They'll sell the place out no matter who they play, so I guess you can't really blame them.

[The Walrus]

The problem is not filling out a schedule with DI opponents. It's filling out a schedule with DI opponents and still maintaining a profitable athletic department. Montana apparently refuses to play anyone on the road, and a DII opponent will come to Montana cheaper than a FCS opponent would. They'll sell the place out no matter who they play, so I guess you can't really blame them.

I understand that to a point. I would hope we would follow similar path as NDSU and play up, schedule 1A teams and generate the revenue that way. I wonder how much Montana makes for home game vs a Div 2 compared to the exposure and 300,000 NDSU will make once again at Minnesota...?

[NDSU grad]

[i understand that to a point. I would hope we would follow similar path as NDSU and play up, schedule 1A teams and generate the revenue that way. I wonder how much Montana makes for home game vs a Div 2 compared to the exposure and 300,000 NDSU will make once again at Minnesota...?

I would think Montana is in the unique situation (for FCS schools) that they can probably make almost as much playing a DII at home as they can playing a guarantee game. They did play Iowa last year (don't know what the guarantee was) so they aren't totally immune to playing FBS teams.

[bincitysioux]

I understand that to a point. I would hope we would follow similar path as NDSU and play up, schedule 1A teams and generate the revenue that way. I wonder how much Montana makes for home game vs a Div 2 compared to the exposure and 300,000 NDSU will make once again at Minnesota...?

Well, let's just assume that a Griz ticket costs $20. They sell every game out so that's $460,000 in ticket revenue, plus consessions and things like that. Take away $50-60,000 or so to pay the opponent for coming. I'll bet that Montana makes ~$400,000 or more for every home game.

Like NDSUgrad said, Montana is a unique situation.

Once the transition is over, and hopefully we have more members in our conference, I wouldn't mind playing one DII game a year, as long as it is either a Top 10-15 ranked school, or a regional opponent that may be of interest to our fans.

It's going to be a balancing act.

[darell1976]

I am very confused on the financial part of the scheduling. To get a team to the Alerus the Sioux have to shell out some big bucks correct?? Does that go for any team that the Sioux want to play. And on the flip side the Sioux get paid to go to play a team on the road. Like this year Southern Utah paid UND to go there correct?? Don't teams run out of money trying to get the big names to go to their venue?? I can see the Sioux paying the bucks for a Appalachan State or a I-A team, so hopefully their accountants know what they are doing and don't make UND broke in 2008. Please help with my questions.

[DI IN FARGO]

The problem you guys are going to have is the capacity of the Alerus. Going to make it hard to payout larger guarantees and yet be profitable.

[GeauxSioux]

The problem you guys are going to have is the capacity of the Alerus. Going to make it hard to payout larger guarantees and yet be profitable.

See Facilities thread.

[DI IN FARGO]

I was trying to keep the topic within the realm of reality. That talk has been going on in Fargo for several years already. You need to sellout the Alerus or at least come close on a regular basis before you start pie in the sky dreaming about a 30,000 seat stadium.

[GeauxSioux]

I was trying to keep the topic within the realm of reality. That talk has been going on in Fargo for several years already. You need to sellout the Alerus or at least come close on a regular basis before you start pie in the sky dreaming about a 30,000 seat stadium.

Weren't you the same one who said

The problem you guys are going to have is the capacity of the Alerus. Going to make it hard to payout larger guarantees and yet be profitable.

How does that jive with

You need to sellout the Alerus or at least come close on a regular basis before you start pie in the sky dreaming about a 30,000 seat stadium.

You posed a question, I referred you to where to find the answer.

[DI IN FARGO]

Ok, how does not being able to fill a 11 or 12 thousand seat stadium jive with building a 30k stadium? Better yet how does a 30k stadium in a city of 49k make sense? Even the GF Metro a 30k stadium doesn't make sense is all I'm saying. Hey more power to you if you can do it. I'll believe it when I see it. Carry on.

[bincitysioux]

I am very confused on the financial part of the scheduling. To get a team to the Alerus the Sioux have to shell out some big bucks correct?? Does that go for any team that the Sioux want to play. And on the flip side the Sioux get paid to go to play a team on the road. Like this year Southern Utah paid UND to go there correct?? Don't teams run out of money trying to get the big names to go to their venue?? I can see the Sioux paying the bucks for a Appalachan State or a I-A team, so hopefully their accountants know what they are doing and don't make UND broke in 2008. Please help with my questions.

UND will not/does not pay conference foes to come to Grand Forks (i.e. current NCC teams or future GWFC teams). I don't believe that SUU paid UND to come this year, as it was the first part of a home-and-home agreement and SUU will come to the Alerus next season. This agreement was in place before UND joined the Great West. IIRC, last year, UND got $50,000 for going to Northern Iowa. I think that UND typically has paid non-conference foes ~$20,000-30,000 like Humboldt St., Mesa St. etc. The other option is to make home-and-home agreements in which UND would play an opponent at their place one year, and the opponent would come to GF the next year or vice-versa. There is usually no "guarantee" money exchanging hands in this type of agreement. It is very unlikely that a I-A team would come to GF.

I was trying to keep the topic within the realm of reality. That talk has been going on in Fargo for several years already. You need to sellout the Alerus or at least come close on a regular basis before you start pie in the sky dreaming about a 30,000 seat stadium.

We are just talking about the future. NDSU and SDSU saw about a 25% increase in attendance in their first DI season. If the same trend holds true for UND, the Alerus could be at or near capacity in our first DI season. NDSU is currently enjoying a 41% increase in attendance from their last year in DII. If UND sees demand anywhere close to that, their could be waiting lists, ticket price hikes, and more Fighting Sioux Club memberships (just like hockey) which could all point to the need for a larger stadium in the future.

[bisonguy]

Well, let's just assume that a Griz ticket costs $20. They sell every game out so that's $460,000 in ticket revenue, plus consessions and things like that. Take away $50-60,000 or so to pay the opponent for coming. I'll bet that Montana makes ~$400,000 or more for every home game.

Like NDSUgrad said, Montana is a unique situation.

Once the transition is over, and hopefully we have more members in our conference, I wouldn't mind playing one DII game a year, as long as it is either a Top 10-15 ranked school, or a regional opponent that may be of interest to our fans.

It's going to be a balancing act.

From what Griz fans have stated, you're pretty close to the mark- they net about $450k per home game.

[darell1976]

It is very unlikely that a I-A team would come to GF.

I could see maybe and a big maybe Minnesota, Wisconsin or Iowa coming to GF maybe Iowa State. If NDSU beats Minnesota this season wouldn't Minnesota want to try to beat them in the Fargodome. Same thing if the Sioux beat these teams not to mention crush them in hockey too. I could see them coming to GF.

[mksioux]

I could see maybe and a big maybe Minnesota, Wisconsin or Iowa coming to GF maybe Iowa State. If NDSU beats Minnesota this season wouldn't Minnesota want to try to beat them in the Fargodome. Same thing if the Sioux beat these teams not to mention crush them in hockey too. I could see them coming to GF.

Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Iowa won't even play UND at their place due to our nickname. Iowa State is a logical opponent, but there is no way in heck they would ever come to GF.

[Matt]

I can see the Sioux paying the bucks for a Appalachan State or a I-A team, so hopefully their accountants know what they are doing and don't make UND broke in 2008. Please help with my questions

First, a I-A (FBS) team will not come to the Alerus. They will give UND a big payout to go there, but they will not go on the road. If a I-A has ever gone on the road to a I-AA, I've never heard of it.

Second, giving App State a big payout to come to the Alerus would be a great idea, even if UND didn't make much profit from it. The buzz that game would create around the move up can create the longer term effect that you see now with NDSU. People get more excited about the program and want to be a part of it.

[Hammersmith]

If you search really hard, you can find a few instances of I-A's travelling to I-AA's, but these are almost always the result of rivalries surviving the move up by one of the members. The WKU-EKU game is a good example. Both schools plan on continuing the games as home/home's even though EKU is I-AA and WKU has moved to I-A. These situations do not apply to UND(or NDSU). There's a 99.99% certainty that the Alerus will never see a I-A(FBS) game against UND.

In regards to game costs, a DII opponent will generally run you $50k-$100k depending on travel expenses and who's paying for them. A I-AA will run $75k-$200k with the same qualifier. Home and homes are usually a wash, but many schools are asking for travel expenses to come to more remote areas like ours. I expect UND will have to pay $25k-$50k per H/H agreement in travel expenses; you're not negotiating from a position of strength(neither were we). You will get $100k-$300k per game versus I-A opponents during your first few years. If you can demonstrate that you'll fill their stadium and you'll play well, that number will rise. Montana received over $600k to play at Iowa and the Youngstown State/Ohio State contract was worth over $1.5M for two games. Don't expect numbers like that for UND until 2012 at the earliest. (Even then, it'll be due mostly to inflation; 2015 in reality)

Make no mistake, the current size of the Alerus will hurt you. NDSU is bringing in $250k per game with current attendance(2007) and we haven't even touched our ticket prices yet. Season ticket sales are also growing at a nice clip. I figure we'll top out at about $350k per game in about three years. That puts us as one of the few programs that can do what Montana does: afford to pay for 7 home games. Will we do it? I don't know; but we'll be able to. I don't think the Alerus will allow you to do the same. A 35k seat stadium might be possible in the long run(I doubt it), but it's not the long run we're talking about; it's: "How will UND pay for the first 10 years?" I truly believe you'll have a tougher time than we did. You don't have the capacity to make a profit bringing in I-AA guarantee games. Home/Home's will kill you on travel costs(especially commercial to GF; probably fly to Fargo and bus to GF). Your fanbase won't put up with two or three DII's per year while NDSU has a straight DI schedule. They also won't stand for two or three I-A bodybag games per year to pay the bills. It's going to be tough. The best thing would be to expand the Alerus to 15k and forget about the outdoor stadium for now. I think that 15k is the magic number for a successful program. Of course, you need to fill it, but that really goes without saying.

Well, I've rambled enough and it's time for food. Good luck to you.

[star2city]

Your fanbase won't put up with two or three DII's per year while NDSU has a straight DI schedule. They also won't stand for two or three I-A bodybag games per year to pay the bills. It's going to be tough. The best thing would be to expand the Alerus to 15k and forget about the outdoor stadium for now. I think that 15k is the magic number for a successful program. Of course, you need to fill it, but that really goes without saying.

Well, I've rambled enough and it's time for food. Good luck to you.

With the limited number of DIAA schools in the West and Big Sky schools playing 8 conference games, Cal Poly and UC-Davis have and will continue to face more difficult scheduling issues than UND. Neither of those schools have a pot of gold to offer and normally face at least one DII and one DIA school to fill out their schedule.

Here's Cal Poly's schedule :

Sat, Sep 1 at Texas State L 35-38 --

Sat, Sep 8 at Idaho L 13-20 --

Sat, Sep 15 Weber State W 47-19 --

Sat, Sep 22 Western Oregon W 24-17 --

Sat, Sep 29 Northern Colorado 9:05 pm --

Sat, Oct 13 at California-Davis 4:30 pm --

Sat, Oct 20 at South Dakota State 8:00 pm --

Sat, Oct 27 at Idaho State 5:05 pm --

Sat, Nov 3 at Southern Utah 3:00 pm --

Sat, Nov 10 North Dakota State 7:05 pm --

Sat, Nov 17 Iona 4:05 pm --

UC-Davis:

Sat, Sep 1 Western Washington L 21-28 --

Sat, Sep 8 at Portland State W 26-17 --

Sat, Sep 15 at Eastern Washington L 31-41 --

Sat, Sep 22 Northeastern W 28-10 --

Sat, Sep 29 at San Jose State 4:00 pm --

Sat, Oct 6 at North Dakota State 2:00 pm --

Sat, Oct 13 Cal Poly 4:30 pm --

Sat, Oct 20 at Southern Utah 3:00 pm --

Sat, Oct 27 South Dakota State 5:00 pm --

Sat, Nov 3 at Sacramento State 5:05 pm --

Sat, Nov 17 San Diego 4:30 pm --

SUU is one of the Little Sisters of the Poor in IAA and they have no trouble scheduling (mostly because other teams want the W)

Sat, Sep 1 at Montana L 17-37 --

Sat, Sep 8 North Dakota L 10-37 --

Sat, Sep 15 Southern Illinois L 10-44 --

Sat, Sep 22 McNeese State L 20-41 --

Sat, Oct 6 at Montana State 3:35 pm --

Sat, Oct 13 at Youngstown State 4:00 pm --

Sat, Oct 20 California-Davis 3:00 pm --

Sat, Oct 27 at North Dakota State 2:00 pm --

Sat, Nov 3 Cal Poly 3:00 pm --

Sat, Nov 10 at South Dakota State 2:00 pm --

Sat, Nov 17 at Northern Iowa 6:05 pm --

The first year will be the most difficult when UND is not a counter.

I truly believe you'll have a tougher time than we did. You don't have the capacity to make a profit bringing in I-AA guarantee games. Home/Home's will kill you on travel costs(especially commercial to GF; probably fly to Fargo and bus to GF).

Again, see UC-Davis and Cal Poly. San Luis Obispo is not the easiest travel destination. Since when do football teams travel via commerical airline into Fargo? Teams with under 20 members do, but football? Whether to Fargo or GF, football teams are likely either to charter, or (for the schools wanting to save bucks) fly to Minneapolis commercially and then bus.

[bincitysioux]

Your fanbase won't put up with two or three DII's per year while NDSU has a straight DI schedule. They also won't stand for two or three I-A bodybag games per year to pay the bills. It's going to be tough. The best thing would be to expand the Alerus to 15k and forget about the outdoor stadium for now. I think that 15k is the magic number for a successful program. Of course, you need to fill it, but that really goes without saying.

Well, I've rambled enough and it's time for food. Good luck to you.

Remember, this is NDSU's (transiton year 4) first year with an exclusive DI schedule. Up until this year, NDSU has had at least one DII on the schedule since the transition, and they've all drawn well. I'm amused that UND's expansion talks when referred to Bison fans has approached the 35,000 seat area. It shows that you think highly of our program. In reallity, I agree that if it would be feasible to expand the Alerus to ~15,000, that would be ideal. If UND could draw 15,000 per game, I think that would be a monumentarl success, and also not out of the realm of possiblities. If the Alerus cannot accomadate those numbers, I'm not adverse to the idea of 15,000-20,000 seat outdoor stadium, that could be expandable in the distant future if warranted. You're right, I think that 15k is a magic number.

Not many I-AA's play more than one I-A team per year, and NDSU won't after they are eligible for the playoffs either. This is an area in which our nickname-controversy will hurt us, unless certain schools reconsider their stance. If a Gopher-Bison "bodybag" game draws 60,000, then I feel a Gopher-Sioux game would easily draw 70,000 just due to significantly more familiarity with the opponent. Same goes for Wisconsin.

Don't worry about us, we'll be just fine.

[mksioux]

Not many I-AA's play more than one I-A team per year, and NDSU won't after they are eligible for the playoffs either. This is an area in which our nickname-controversy will hurt us, unless certain schools reconsider their stance. If a Gopher-Bison "bodybag" game draws 60,000, then I feel a Gopher-Sioux game would easily draw 70,000 just due to significantly more familiarity with the opponent. Same goes for Wisconsin.

Minnesota's new TCF Bank Stadium (opening in 2009) will only hold about 50,000. With that capacity, Minnesota would likely sell out out against any of the four Dakota schools. More importantly, it's my opinion that despite what Maturi wants, Minnesota will never play UND as long as we are called the Fighting Sioux -- no matter what happens with the lawsuit. Maturi will decide it's simply not important enough for him to expend political capital butting heads with the PC wack-jobs on campus. I think our closest DI-A option will be Iowa State as long as we retain our nickname.

[darell1976]

Minnesota's new TCF Bank Stadium (opening in 2009) will only hold about 50,000. With that capacity, Minnesota would likely sell out out against any of the four Dakota schools. More importantly, it's my opinion that despite what Maturi wants, Minnesota will never play UND as long as we are called the Fighting Sioux -- no matter what happens with the lawsuit. Maturi will decide it's simply not important enough for him to expend political capital butting heads with the PC wack-jobs on campus. I think our closest DI-A option will be Iowa State as long as we retain our nickname.

Some other options for DI teams may be Nebraska (remember they used to play teams like Pacific back in the Osborne days) and they are a worse team now under Callahan. Also maybe Kansas since the Sioux played them in basketball, or maybe Illinois since both teams hate Myles Brand more than anyone. I think lower ranked I-A teams may look at I-AA teams for that "W". And since there aren't too many up here maybe UND can use its hockey power of pursuation to get some teams to play us not Ohio State or Notre Dame or Michigan (but after App. St. it may be possible) but maybe Boston College, or a Michigan team (Cent, East or West). But I guess we will have to wait and see. Maybe a UND at Florida State game would be cool we could call it the Myles Brand Bowl. Battle of the Indian nicknames.