Goodbye NCC

[KEH]

An interesting clumn by Jeff Kolpak in todays Forum lays the ultimate blame for the demise of the NCC at the feet of the NCAA leaders that started to cut scholies from D2 and erode the quality of D2 football.

Kolpack Column

"The culprit was Walter Byers. He was the president of the NCAA in 1986 when the organization voted to reduce the maximum Division II scholarships from 45 to 40. His accomplice was Richard Schultz, the NCAA director from 1987-93, when the scholarships were reduced further.

That started a slide that hasn

[star2city]

I'm sure Roger is a very nice guy and maybe some Bison fans don't have the best of intentions when criticizing him, but I do think his vision - or lack thereof - is fair game in this forum. I know there are a lot of Sioux fans who think less of his vision than any Bison fan ever could.

At the same time, there is some merit to the argument that what's done is done and let's concentrate on the future.

IMHO, Roger knew all along that when (not if) UND seriously pursued DI, that he (Roger) would be out as AD. A more seasoned administrator was an absolute must. It was in RT's best interest (and the stability of the NCC) to hype DII.

[Riverman]

IMHO, Roger knew all along that when (not if) UND seriously pursued DI, that he (Roger) would be out as AD. A more seasoned administrator was an absolute must. It was in RT's best interest (and the stability of the NCC) to hype DII.

I agree RT was in a "no win" spot in his career at UND.

Wy-Bison, I don't agree with you. RT brought a football program back into the spotlight

for UND. I still remember that little tv program/show Fire and Ice. RT and Rocky made ND football

what it is today.

As for CK the jury is still out IMHO. He helped himself out by hiring the new AD. TB adds

something that the sports programs needed.

Just my .02

[bincitysioux]

The NSIC voted today to add all 4 of the remaining NCC schools.

NSIC TO EXPAND TO 14 TEAMS IN 2008-09

Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference (NSIC) Commissioner Butch Raymond has announced the results from the NSIC Board of Directors teleconference call dealing with expansion. The Board of Directors, consisting of the ten NSIC Presidents/Chancellors, voted to expand the NSIC to 14 teams with the addition of Augustana College (Sioux Falls, S.D.), the University of Minnesota-Duluth (Duluth, Minn.), Minnesota State University Mankato (Mankato, Minn.) and St. Cloud State University (Saint Cloud, Minn.). These four institutions, which were all voted on individually, will begin participating within the NSIC in the 2008-09 season.

[oyerbonde]

With USD leaving to make the step up the NCC is left with only 5 teams thats not enough to be a NC$$ conference..So what I am wondering is has any other well established conference disappeared so fast? In a way we all new this was coming. With the 4 major schools in the great territory of Dakota leaving it is sad that the NCC can't continue on.

The NCC was deserted by the NCAA when it allowed so many newcomer schools to have the power to vote the scholarship levels down. We've seen a slow, but steady, deterioration of the over-all caliber of play in all of D2. There have remained some very strong programs, with UND being one of them...but the over-all effect has been erosion.

The 4 Dakota schools eventually had to leave if they were to maintain a 'real' state university caliber program in the long run. We could even see it coming when schools like Mankato and St. Cloud came into the picture.

No one has abandoned the NCC in the Dakotas. The NCC was dismantled by the NCAA and its lack of concern for what was once a beautiful balance between athletics and academics. UND and NDSU lived in the best of both worlds. Without the four Dakota schools, the region has lost something that the other area schools can't fill.

All four schools from the Dakotas should have moved up together, but each school had its own reasons to do what they did...and when they did. And here these four great universities are...fighting over something that the NCAA caused.

It seems like a lot of conferences have been shifting and changing, even in DI. Schools are going where the money is.

It's too bad that this all had to happen.

[bincitysioux]

All of the NCC schools staying in DII now have conference homes.

MIAA adds Nebraska-Omaha to conference

The Institutional Representatives of the Mid-America Intercollegiate Athletics Association voted to approve the application by the University of Nebraska at Omaha for membership to the conference, effective for the 2008-09 academic year.

[The Sicatoka]

All of the NCC schools staying in DII now have conference homes.

MIAA adds Nebraska-Omaha to conference

The last shovel full of dirt onto the NCC's coffin.

[Herd]

The NCC was deserted by the NCAA when it allowed so many newcomer schools to have the power to vote the scholarship levels down. We've seen a slow, but steady, deterioration of the over-all caliber of play in all of D2. There have remained some very strong programs, with UND being one of them...but the over-all effect has been erosion.

The 4 Dakota schools eventually had to leave if they were to maintain a 'real' state university caliber program in the long run. We could even see it coming when schools like Mankato and St. Cloud came into the picture.

No one has abandoned the NCC in the Dakotas. The NCC was dismantled by the NCAA and its lack of concern for what was once a beautiful balance between athletics and academics. UND and NDSU lived in the best of both worlds. Without the four Dakota schools, the region has lost something that the other area schools can't fill.

All four schools from the Dakotas should have moved up together, but each school had its own reasons to do what they did...and when they did. And here these four great universities are...fighting over something that the NCAA caused.

It seems like a lot of conferences have been shifting and changing, even in DI. Schools are going where the money is.

It's too bad that this all had to happen.

Disagree, DI is the best thing that every happened to NDSU and the Dakota schools. Look at the schedules for 2007-2008, the enthusiasm is 10x what it would have been in DII. The lowering of schollies gave us the push to DI and did us a favor. That is where our schools belong, you will see.

Not to pick on UND, but your schedules the past few years (all DII sports considered) have to be leaving you feeling a little empty inside. Just watch the enthusiasm that you will bring back to your fan base over the next 5 years, it will be huge, and you will wonder why you didn't make the move 10 years ago.

[bincitysioux]

There is a good read written by Bob Eblen at D2football.com regarding the changing landscape of the DII football. Specifically the folding of the NCC, the expansion of the NSIC, and UNO to the MIAA.

[Hammersmith]

Shamelessly stolen from the Bisonville board:

Greenie wrote:

NSIC Splits Into Divisions for Football for 2008-2009

Divisions to split NSIC football

North

Mary

MSU-Moorhead

UM-Duluth

UM-Crookston

Bemidji State

Northern State

St. Cloud State

South

Winona State

Augustana

Upper Iowa

MSU-Mankato

Concordia-St. Paul

SW MN State

Wayne State

"Teams will play six divisional games, four inter-division games and one non-conference game per season. Division champions will have the best record in divisional play. The NSIC championship will be awarded to the team with the best overall record."

"The NSIC also voted to maintain the league

[jimdahl]

NSIC's limits revisited

This is hardly shocking...

The rumor floating around Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference schools is that new members Minnesota-Duluth, Minnesota State-Mankato, Augustana and St. Cloud State have already started lobbying for increased scholarship limits.

The former North Central Conference schools, which enter the NSIC in 2008-09, are said to be miffed that their programs might take a major hit when they are forced to hack away at their current scholarships to get down to the Northern Sun

[dakotadan]

Quickly following the announcement of the University of Sioux Falls new on campus football stadium, Auggie announced this week that they will also be building an on campus stadium to be ready sometime next year during their first season in the NSIC.

Auggie to build new on campus stadium

[GeauxSioux]

Conference ends, a legacy remains

Historically, the North Central Conference has cut a wide competitive path through the world of NCAA Division II athletics.

In sports such as football and women's basketball, a contender for a conference title has been a de facto contender for a national title.

As such, the upcoming demise of the 85-year-old conference at the end of the 2007-08 school year will forever change the scene at the top of the Division II heap.

The schools themselves aren't going anywhere, but the bonds that kept them together - what many would argue pushed the conference collectively to national prominence - are vaporizing.

South Dakota and North Dakota - itself one of the key reasons for the long-time NCC superiority - are moving their programs to Division I, joining former rivals North Dakota State and South Dakota State. That has left schools such as Augustana and St. Cloud State to fend for themselves and most are joining the Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference for the 2008-09 season.

Left behind will be an NCC competitive legacy that will live on in record books and personal memories.

[Bison Doc]

I disagree. I for one will always miss the old NCC the way it was throughout the '80s and '90s. I blame UNC, NDSU, and SDSU for ruining what used to be a great conference. If we had made the move 10 years ago we would not have been eligible to play in those national championship games in '01 and '03.

Of course you do, Dave. Blame those whom you hate the most. Why not blame those who left before the three you mentioned? Why not blame UNI for leaving the NCC years ago? Why not blame those piss-ant schools who sucked the life out of DII by whining like a little baby that they couldn't compete with the big schools so they got scholarships cut? Classic myopic view point from you Dave - blaming the ones you hate most even though they weren't the real cause.

[GeauxSioux]

I blame Creighton.

[Bison Dan]

I don't hate UNC or SDSU, but the fact of the matter is that they (along with NDSU) abandoned the NCC when it was still thriving. If they hadn't jumped ship UND and USD wouldn't have been forced to do the same.

Forced? Can you honestly say that the move hasn't been a great for NDSU? If you call it thriving (NCC) then so be it, but I'll take the road NDSU when down any day.

[sultan]

At this point nobody knows for sure whether DI will be good or bad for the non football sports. NDSU hasn't even finished their transition yet. Football will be fine. The other sports could end up being a bust. Time will tell. It could seem like a long time between games like the Wisconsin game and the next time it happens. How do you keep the interest in the 10 or 20 years between upsets? It might work out fine but it is way to early tell. Bison fans are way ahead of themselves.

[Bison Dan]

At this point nobody knows for sure whether DI will be good or bad for the non football sports. NDSU hasn't even finished their transition yet. Football will be fine. The other sports could end up being a bust. Time will tell. It could seem like a long time between games like the Wisconsin game and the next time it happens. How do you keep the interest in the 10 or 20 years between upsets? It might work out fine but it is way to early tell. Bison fans are way ahead of themselves.

You obviously don't follow the "non football sports" at NDSU do you? I think the following year after the Wisconsin game we beat a team called Marquette who at the time was rated #8 in the nation.

[Bison Doc]

At this point nobody knows for sure whether DI will be good or bad for the non football sports. NDSU hasn't even finished their transition yet. Football will be fine. The other sports could end up being a bust. Time will tell. It could seem like a long time between games like the Wisconsin game and the next time it happens. How do you keep the interest in the 10 or 20 years between upsets? It might work out fine but it is way to early tell. Bison fans are way ahead of themselves.

With the exception of WBB, there haven't been many of the non-revenue sports that have competed for much other than a conference championship. I think somebody on the site had a link to the Argus Leader from yesterday in regards to the disbanding of the NCC. They list all the championships that have been won and for those who have/are moving to DI, the main ones of course are, FB, WBB. As you said, FB will be fine - the others are probably trying to win a conf champ and a single game in the BB tourney's. Yes, the individual champs are going to be few and far between.

Dave, nobody forced anybody to move to DI - including UNC, SDSU and NDSU. If they did, then I blame the likes of Montana and Montana State and U of N Iowa for forcing us. Again, maybe you should be blaming the likes of MN-Moorhead, SW-MN State, Winona, etc for forcing us by begging for the lowering of FB scholarships. Not saying that was the lone reason for schools moving up but it sure didn't help.

[darell1976]

At this point nobody knows for sure whether DI will be good or bad for the non football sports. NDSU hasn't even finished their transition yet. Football will be fine. The other sports could end up being a bust. Time will tell. It could seem like a long time between games like the Wisconsin game and the next time it happens. How do you keep the interest in the 10 or 20 years between upsets? It might work out fine but it is way to early tell. Bison fans are way ahead of themselves.

I think the move was great by NDSU and if it wasn't for Roger Thomas the Sioux would have followed with equal success or better. NDSU is the talk of the state being the only true D-I school but since people are familiar with UND hockey the move by the Sioux will make people talk about UND football and basketball. Its hard to live in Fargo hearing the Bison play big name teams like Wisconsin, Minnesota, Marquette or even Central Michigan then hearing the Sioux play St. Cloud, or Western Washington or Humboldt State it doesn't excite me as much. I wished the Sioux would have moved with everyone else instead of dragging their feet. Well I say goodbye NCC forever and hello D-I!!!!!

[Bison Dan]

It has nothing to do with Montana, Montana State, or UNI. Those three schools were long gone from D2 when the NCC was in its prime (late '80s to early '00s). UNC, NDSU, and SDSU ruined the conference by jumping ship. Their departure lowered the number of quality teams in the conference from 7 to 4, forcing UND and USD to move up. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

The only thing that forced you to move up is the success of NDSU. Live with it!

[Bison Doc]

It has nothing to do with Montana, Montana State, or UNI. Those three schools were long gone from D2 when the NCC was in its prime (late '80s to early '00s). UNC, NDSU, and SDSU ruined the conference by jumping ship. Their departure lowered the number of quality teams in the conference from 7 to 4, forcing UND and USD to move up. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

As per your mantra, nobody will ever change your mind (are you married and can your wife change your mind? ). They won't change your mind because your bound and determined to make these three schools look like the bad guys. You have yet to address the fact that these smaller schools begging and pleading to cut scholarships had a ton to do with schools like UNC, SDSU and NDSU leaving DII. But given your nature, you'll brush that off as some fluke and state it has nothing to do with other schools departing or other schools wanting to try something different and be where their peers are. You'll attribute it to NDSU particularly being the bad guy and you always will. What's new?

[NDSUguy]

The reduction in scholarships at the D2 level happened a long time prior to when those three schools abandoned the conference. I don't recall exactly what year it happened, but it was somewhere in the late '80s/early '90s. If that's why UNC, NDSU, and SDSU jumped ship in '03/'04... well, all I can say is their reaction time is painfully slow.

Nothing makes the work day go by faster than having a good chuckle at the expense of DaveK.... I don't always disagree with him but his blaming UNC, SDSU and NDSU for "ruining" the NCC is laughable. The change in the NCC was not nearly as important as the change in D2 as a whole. While the NCC might have went from being a powerhouse to something less desirable, the reason that these schools went D1 had nothing to do with those who were in the NCC. We loved playing teams like Auggie, SDSU, USD, Mankato and YES even UND. The reason that these schools left had EVERYTHING to do with the changing landscape of D2. The division as a whole was getting weaker, which is very evident now. It would have been favorable to move in a big group (NDSU, SDSU, UNC, USD and UND) but the decision was made by USD and UND to not go down that path.

Regardless of the success of NDSU/SDSU/UNC, the move was right. The competition of the NCC and D2 as a whole was getting weaker prior to us making the move.

[Herd]

Again, and I can't stress this enough... the reduction in scholarships happened many many years prior to those three schools jumping ship. It took them two decades to figure out they didn't want to stick around after the reduction in scholarships? Sheesh, talk about your all-time delayed reactions.

Now can you at least try to come up with a halfway logical reason why those schools abandoned the conference? What was happening to D2 in '01-'02 that wasn't happening in '91-'92?

If the leadership and commitment to DI in Fargo would have been in place sooner, the move would have happened sooner. The besting timing IMO would have been shortly after the 1990 championship in the early 1990's.

UND hasn't been forced into anything, your leadership has been shamed into moving to DI, look at your schedules for goodness sakes vs. your neighbor in DI. I'm sure there is a spot in the Northern Sun for UND if you beat Minot to the punch, I wouldn't want to force you to do anything against your will like move to DI.

What a bunch of crap, if und and usd stay in the NCC, the conference goes on and a few teams are brought in from the Norhtern Sun to balance the 2 conferences. Und and usd left and the conference died. You killed the NCC, not SU. Forced to leave, what a bunch of crap. Shamed and embarrassed by your actions and NDSU's success, yes. Forced, no way.

[SiouxMeNow]

I do so love revisionist history