NCAA serious about I-A attendance requirements?

[jimdahl]

They keep talking the talk:

NCAA warns schools to fill seats or drop from I-A ranks

Teams on the bubble:

Bowling Green

Louisiana-Monroe

Ball State

Temple

New Mexico State

San Jose State

Utah State

Akron

Rice

Buffalo

Kent State

Eastern Michigan

Schools that don't meet the minimum this year will receive a letter of non-compliance. That starts a 10-year period during which they must meet the requirement or be banned from bowl games. The attendance minimum would have to be met the next year or a school would lose I-A football status.

The implications for UND are obvious, both in terms of our long-term potential to ever target I-A and the potential benefits of short-term turmoil and conference shakeups that could follow I-A teams being forced down to I-AA.

[Riverman]

They keep talking the talk:

NCAA warns schools to fill seats or drop from I-A ranks

The implications for UND are obvious, both in terms of our long-term potential to ever target I-A and the potential benefits of short-term turmoil and conference shakeups that could follow I-A teams being forced down to I-AA.

I had no idea Kent St. and Akron would be on the list.

As for UND and D1A, I really can't see it unless the NCAA changes the structure. He11 they don't even want a championship game. They love the BCS because of the money it makes them.

I see this article as a way to raise money for their fight against UND.

[MplsBison]

The rule is entirely perpetuated by the 6 BCS conferences.

They would love nothing more than for DI-A to consist only of those 6 conference schools, and kick everyone else down to DI-AA.

Well, frankly, it ain't going to happen.

Personally, I think the rule is utter BS to begin with. And I doubt highly that a I-A school will ever be forced down to I-AA. I think a lawsuit against the NCAA would block that from happening.

I think the more likely scenario is that the BCS schools will eventually get so fed up with the deal that they'll go independant of the NCAA and keep all their own money from their own tournaments and games.

[The Sicatoka]

The NCAA has watered down the "15000 average attendance" rule for play in DI-A football.

From the 2006-07 NCAA Division I manual:

"Once every two years on a rolling basis, the institution shall average at least 15,000 in actual OR PAID attendance for all home football games." (20.9.7.3, emphasis added)

"For purposes of computing paid attendance figures, tickets must be sold for at least one-third of the highest regular established ticket price as established prior to the season, regardless of whether they are used for admission." (20.9.7.3.1.2)

The MAC drove for that "or paid" change. Why? Six of the schools Jim lists are MAC schools! (E Mich, Kent, Buffalo, Akron, Ball St, Bowling Green)

But how can you not make 15000 under those rules for "paid" attendance? All you have to do is "sell" the ticket at 1/3 of face and you don't even have to have someone use it ("regardless of whether they are used for admission").

Create a "three-for-one" promotion for your season ticket holders and pump up the "paid" numbers.

NDSU is doing 2-for-1s which pumps up the "paid" number.

Those MAC schools, or even UND, could do the same.

PS - 20.9.7.2: "The (DI-A) institution shall schedule and play at least five regular season home games against Division I-A opponents." Given this, the BCS DI-As need lower tier DI-As to fill out their home schedules.

[The Sicatoka]

A friend rolled this thought out to me:

If the NCAA is "all about the student-athlete" (hold down the laughter) why does the number of fans in the stands matter at all?

Shouldn't the NCAA be most interested in getting maximum benefit to student-athletes (85 football scholarships plus the other required scholarships for DI-A) rather than how many people are in the stands?

If a school has the money to fund DI-A (say they had a major benefactor or endowment), and as long as student-athletes benefitted from the scholarships, why would it matter if the school played in front of even an empty grandstand?

Or is the NCAA really not all about the student-athlete?

[nd1sufan]

The NCAA has watered down the "15000 average attendance" rule for play in DI-A football.

NDSU is doing 2-for-1s which pumps up the "paid" number.

Nice try at a shot at NDSU. The only way you can get a 2-for-1 is on a general admission ticket. If you have been to a game at the Fargodome, you wouldn't know that the only general admission seats are the tops of the end zone. The sidelines and bottom half of both endzones are reserved and don't qualify for the 2-for-1. If they sell a total of 1000 gen admis tickets a game I would be surprised.

[The Sicatoka]

The two-for-ones count as "paid attendance."

And since when is a fact a "shot"?

[GeauxSioux]

The two-for-ones count as "paid attendance."

And since when is a fact a "shot"?

A shot would be they may only sell 1,000 general admission, but how many do they "give away" at Stop-n-Go? That would be a shot. But hey, if they're filling the seats and making money, who cares.

[Bison Dan]

A shot would be they may only sell 1,000 general admission, but how many do they "give away" at Stop-n-Go? That would be a shot. But hey, if there filling the seats and making money, who cares.

Our attendance is counted as butts in the seat not like the alerus which counts paid attendance.

[Cratter]

Nice try at a shot at NDSU. The only way you can get a 2-for-1 is on a general admission ticket.

You accuse The Sicatoka of taking "shots" but then you back up his point that NDSU is actually doing 2-1's and how those can be counted toward attendance for DI-A football?

[bincitysioux]

Our attendance is counted as butts in the seat not like the alerus which counts paid attendance.

Really? So if you are a season ticket holder for NDSU football and you miss one game, do you think they count the attendance by the the ticket they sold and mailed to you in July, or do you really think that they take note of the absence of your "butt in the seat"? Odds are the Fargodome/NDSU does it the same way that virtually all NCAA institutions do it. They print up a ticket for every seat in the building and keep track of how many are sold (or in NDSU's case, given away). "Paid attendance" is pretty much the norm.

[bisonguy]

Really? So if you are a season ticket holder for NDSU football and you miss one game, do you think they count the attendance by the the ticket they sold and mailed to you in July, or do you really think that they take note of the absence of your "butt in the seat"? Odds are the Fargodome/NDSU does it the same way that virtually all NCAA institutions do it. They print up a ticket for every seat in the building and keep track of how many are sold (or in NDSU's case, given away). "Paid attendance" is pretty much the norm.

NDSU has counted actual "butt-in-seat" attendance since the 2003 season.

[Cratter]

NDSU has counted actual "butt-in-seat" attendance since the 2003 season.

Why did NDSU change??

Is that before or after the UND game in Fargo where there was a "sellout"?

Side Note: to me it doesn't matter. I think every institute should count "paid attendance." The school gets the money either way.

[The Sicatoka]

Western Kentucky just announced a move to DI-A.

Go here and look at their average attendance in the last 10 years. (scroll, link in link under "LT Smith Stadium")

Don't get fooled by "total", or "highest single", look at "average".

How's that going to work?

[star2city]

Western Kentucky just announced a move to DI-A.

Go here and look at their average attendance in the last 10 years. (scroll, link in link under "LT Smith Stadium")

Don't get fooled by "total", or "highest single", look at "average".

How's that going to work?

Supposedly, WKU will be scheduling "home" games an hour away in Nashville against schools like Vanderbilt or Tennessee. Since EKU is staying IAA and is a large draw, WKU will likely have that game annually. In addition, WKU's other more local rival, Middle Tennessee, will now be a biennial home game. MTSU wouldn't play at WKU unless WKU moved up from IAA. In the entire Sun Belt, WKU probably has the best traveling and most passionate fans - mostly geared toward basketball.

To stay off NCAA probation for IA attendance, a school needs to exceed 15,000 only every other year. With their expanded stadium (adding 5000 seat) and a away "home" game every other year, WKU can probably meet that criteria rather easily if they schedule correctly.

[star2city]

Eastern Michigan's Solution for averaging 15,000 attendance

The EMU Foundation, a not-for-profit corporation that oversees the university's $145 million endowment and fundraising efforts, allocated $116,000 of its $2.9 million budget to purchase enough football tickets to ensure Eastern Michigan's football program will meet an NCAA minimum attendance mandate.

The announcement comes less than a year after Eastern ranked last among the country's 117 Division I-A programs in per-game attendance, averaging just 5,219 fans - well short of a standard that requires schools to average 15,000 per home game.

[MplsBison]

Eastern Michigan's Solution for averaging 15,000 attendance

And, is there any rule that says a ticket has to be sold for a minimum amount?

Shoot, sell 10k tickets for a dollar each.

[bincitysioux]

And, is there any rule that says a ticket has to be sold for a minimum amount?

Shoot, sell 10k tickets for a dollar each.

I believe that tickets must be sold for at least half of face value to count toward the requirement.

[The Sicatoka]

I know it'd strain a finger but a scroll up to Post #4 would find:

" ... one-third of the highest regular established ticket price as established prior to the season ... "

[MplsBison]

I believe that tickets must be sold for at least half of face value to count toward the requirement.

No, I meant make the face value 1 dollar.

[The Sicatoka]

No, I meant make the face value 1 dollar.

That'd mean the highest priced ticket could only be $3. (See posts 4 and 19.)

[MplsBison]

That'd mean the highest priced ticket could only be $3.

Again, I'm failing to see your point.

My point is that if the bottom line is X number of tickets need to be sold, then that should be the only concern.

[The Sicatoka]

From a "X tickets" POV, sure $3.

But you still have to pay the bills too, don't you?

[MplsBison]

From a "X tickets" POV, sure $3.

That was all I was saying.

But you still have to pay the bills too, don't you?

The point was that a school technically can do whatever it takes to meet the minimum requirements.