United Basketball Conference

[star2city]

So much for the United Basketball Conference?

If UND doesn't get in the BSC - its conference/scheduling options would be bleak. After the MidCon expansion took three schools, the so-called United Basketball Conference is down to three:

Utah Valley State

Texas-Pan Am

New Jersey Institute of Technology

Supposedly, Savannah State and Longwood could also join.

If USD, UNO, and/or Augustana move up, these schools would be their athletic peers.

The Big Sky meetings in October will provide good news for UND.

P.S. Another story on UTPA: UTPA athletics still roaming lonely land of Independents

[aff]

So much for the United Basketball Conference?

The Big Sky meetings in October will provide good news for UND.

P.S. Another story on UTPA: UTPA athletics still roaming lonely land of Independents

What? Is there anything that even says expansion of the conference is going to be addressed in October?

[bincitysioux]

The Big Sky meetings in October will provide good news for UND.

Promise?

I'll I know is, I expect the UND/NJIT rivalry to really heat up in 2008.

[Cratter]

What? Is there anything that even says expansion of the conference is going to be addressed in October?

It's just WAY to easy with you.

[Diggler]

Dang and I was really looking foward to playing the Wolverines, Broncos and Highlanders.

[GeauxSioux]

What? Is there anything that even says expansion of the conference is going to be addressed in October?

Yes, here is the link for it.

Big Sky Expansion

[star2city]

Promise?

Aff promises a million dollars that it doesn't happen.

If UBC is granted NCAA membership in September as seems imminent, the Big Sky will definitely be talking expansion.

Big Sky Commissioner Fullerton just two months ago used the words: We "want to expand with programs that make us better" --> code for "we want to expand with programs that draw attention to the Big Sky, give us bigger media contracts, and make us all more money."

[aff]

Aff promises a million dollars that it doesn't happen.

If UBC is granted NCAA membership in September as seems imminent, the Big Sky will definitely be talking expansion.

Big Sky Commissioner Fullerton just two months ago used the words: We "want to expand with programs that make us better" --> code for "we want to expand with programs that draw attention to the Big Sky, give us bigger media contracts, and make us all more money."

Thats an interesting selection of quotes from the article there! Here's a few I found going through it:

"The (school) presidents want to expand with programs that make us better," Fullerton said. "Of course, geography and what does a new member do for us politically."

"I really hate to mention schools because it sounds like we're considering them, and some we really haven't," Fullerton added.

NDSU and SDSU applied for membership the same time UNC did, but were turned down primarily because of their locations and the difficulty of traveling to Fargo, N.D., and Brookings, S.D.

Fullerton stated that the cost of travel is always a concern

Yeah, sounds like a sure thing to me. Explain to me again why if both brookings and fargo, as a package deal, are to far to travel to, that grand forks by itself is a better deal? I know, I must just be jealous of UND for being rational, and not just picking a half sentence out of a page long article to support my ideas.

[southpaw]

Thats an interesting selection of quotes from the article there! Here's a few I found going through it:

"The (school) presidents want to expand with programs that make us better," Fullerton said. "Of course, geography and what does a new member do for us politically."

"I really hate to mention schools because it sounds like we're considering them, and some we really haven't," Fullerton added.

NDSU and SDSU applied for membership the same time UNC did, but were turned down primarily because of their locations and the difficulty of traveling to Fargo, N.D., and Brookings, S.D.

Fullerton stated that the cost of travel is always a concern

Yeah, sounds like a sure thing to me. Explain to me again why if both brookings and fargo, as a package deal, are to far to travel to, that grand forks by itself is a better deal? I know, I must just be jealous of UND for being rational, and not just picking a half sentence out of a page long article to support my ideas.

hook. line. sinker.

[aff]

hook. line. sinker.

What was the point of even posting that? I doubt even you can explain what thats supposed to mean. Seriously, think of a response or don't, but if you don't have one, than don't bother posting crap like this. The only thing that showed me was that you're not intelligent enough to have a logical conversation.

[MplsBison]

I know that the Big Sky wants to expand for the 2007 season. They don't want 9 basketball members after this season. They want 10 or 12.

So, assuming Denver is not likely, you're looking at adding SUU or UVSC depending on if they want 10 football members or not.

U of BC I think is going to look at DII except for hockey to start out with. They may say "thanks but no thanks for now" to the BSC.

[aff]

I know that the Big Sky wants to expand for the 2007 season. They don't want 9 basketball members after this season. They want 10 or 12.

So, assuming Denver is not likely, you're looking at adding SUU or UVSC depending on if they want 10 football members or not.

U of BC I think is going to look at DII except for hockey to start out with. They may say "thanks but no thanks for now" to the BSC.

That brings up a good point that most UND fans are afraid to think. The big sky may add SUU to the conference, which then could theoretically open up a spot for UND in the mid-con. I think that right now thats UND's best shot at conference membership, even if it isn't the big sky. The worst thing that could happen would be for the big sky to take only denver, or only a canadian school into the conference, pretty much filling up any possible slots for UND in either the mid-con or the big sky.

[star2city]

The big sky may add SUU to the conference, which then could theoretically open up a spot for UND in the mid-con.

At the risk of sounding like even more of a broken record: SUU will not be going to the BSC, as it doesn't pass the we "want to expand with programs that make us better" sniff test. (It does however, pass the "make us worse" test). SUU doesn't have votes and they don't make the BSC better or enhance the BSC revenue - its just another hungry mouth to feed at the trough of conference revenues. SUU only gets added in desperation if two schools leave the BSC and the BSC hasn't already made a move.

Even in the remote chance SUU should leave the MidCon, the MidCon then is forced to respond by taking UTPA to maintain its core members number and its autobid. Other schools only get added if the MidCon goes to 12.

The worst thing that could happen would be for the big sky to take only denver, or only a canadian school into the conference, pretty much filling up any possible slots for UND in either the mid-con or the big sky.

DU will not go to the BSC unless there are more additions that satisfy DU. DU holds all the cards: they are the only acceptable core DI member. The BSC absolutely needs one more core member for protection, and they (the BSC) will do what it takes to attract DU.

A single canadian school will not be accepted into the BSC, as it wouldn't satisfy the BSC's need for a core member.

The BSC choices are rather simple:

Add DU + 2 others mutually attractive to DU and the BSC (i.e. UBC and UND) - improves the perception of the BSC, opens future markets, increases revenues and assure survival for 15+ years

Add SUU - does nothing to revenue and makes future defections (MT to WAC - MT was informally offered before Idaho was, but decline) more likely, future looks bleak

Do nothing - endangers conference autobid status creating even more instability

Aff,

Until you can grasp the concepts associated with core member and autobid requirements, all your so-called expert comments are just hot air.

[Hansel]

At the risk of sounding like even more of a broken record: SUU will not be going to the BSC, as it doesn't pass the we "want to expand with programs that make us better" sniff test. (It does however, pass the "make us worse" test). SUU doesn't have votes and they don't make the BSC better or enhance the BSC revenue - its just another hungry mouth to feed at the trough of conference revenues. SUU only gets added in desperation if two schools leave the BSC and the BSC hasn't already made a move.

Even in the remote chance SUU should leave the MidCon, the MidCon then is forced to respond by taking UTPA to maintain its core members number and its autobid. Other schools only get added if the MidCon goes to 12.

DU will not go to the BSC unless there are more additions that satisfy DU. DU holds all the cards: they are the only acceptable core DI member. The BSC absolutely needs one more core member for protection, and they (the BSC) will do what it takes to attract DU.

A single canadian school will not be accepted into the BSC, as it wouldn't satisfy the BSC's need for a core member.

The BSC choices are rather simple:

Add DU + 2 others mutually attractive to DU and the BSC (i.e. UBC and UND) - improves the perception of the BSC, opens future markets, increases revenues and assure survival for 15+ years

Add SUU - does nothing to revenue and makes future defections (MT to WAC - MT was informally offered before Idaho was, but decline) more likely, future looks bleak

Do nothing - endangers conference autobid status creating even more instability

Aff,

Until you can grasp the concepts associated with core member and autobid requirements, all your so-called expert comments are just hot air.

I thought the possibility of UND joining a Western Based Conference was remote due to the lack of West-Bound Flights? I also thought UND was going to convince Horizon League teams to add Hockey and then join the conference with Minnesota Duluth.

[The Sicatoka]

U of BC I think is going to look at DII except for hockey to start out with. They may say "thanks but no thanks for now" to the BSC.

Why would a school that has a history of winning exhibitions against DI BB teams go DII? Why would they want to guarantee to double their "newbie" pergatory (new DII probation followed by DI transition probation later on)?

They'd probably struggle mightily in BSC FB at first, but in MBB they'd be an instant challenger. And let's not mention what they could do in hockey from the start.

I'd guess they'd prefer going DI immediately (if a conference slot was available to them).

[star2city]

I thought the possibility of UND joining a Western Based Conference was remote due to the lack of West-Bound Flights?

Fargo has been gaining west-bound flights, and its only 70 miles away. Consider the air service in Pocatello or Flagstaff (or, for that matter, Cedar City)

I also thought UND was going to convince Horizon League teams to add Hockey and then join the conference with Minnesota Duluth.

Three years ago that was used a a theoretical example. In practice, the "leverage hockey attributes" strategy has been shifted to the west with a Canadian twist.

[The Sicatoka]

I thought the possibility of UND joining a Western Based Conference was remote due to the lack of West-Bound Flights?

Did you know that just recently Grand Forks International Airport (GFK) received a grant to improve customer services and to lure in an airline with a western hub.

A most amazing coincidence I'd say.

[DI IN FARGO]

Fargo has been gaining west-bound flights, and its only 70 miles away. Consider the air service in Pocatello or Flagstaff (or, for that matter, Cedar City)

The "leverage hockey attributes" strategy has been shifted to the west with a Canadian twist.

I couldn't let this go. This is way to funny. The BSC says that NDSU is to far east and out of the conference footprint but now all of a sudden UND is going to become a possibility for BSC membership because Fargo has flights out West (same flights available when NDSU applied for membership)? Add on top of that a 70 mile drive when all they would of had to do was go from the airport in Fargo about a mile to NDSU and their hotel? That is about the funniest thing I have seen posted yet.

[MplsBison]

Any addition member added to the BSC will split the conference revenue up just the same as any other member.

SUU is in their footprint and gives them a 10th football member if that's what they're looking for.

They have 57 scholarships so they are a good football team. They're committed to athletics.

[LeftyZL]

Any addition member added to the BSC will split the conference revenue up just the same as any other member.

SUU is in their footprint and gives them a 10th football member if that's what they're looking for.

They have 57 scholarships so they are a good football team. They're committed to athletics.

FYI - The number of scholarships a school offers in a particular sport doesn't make them a good team. By your statement, since the UND women's hockey team is fielding nearly the maximum number of scholarships possible, they are a good team. That just doesn't fly.

[nodakvindy]

Did you know that just recently Grand Forks International Airport (GFK) received a grant to improve customer services and to lure in an airline with a western hub.

A most amazing coincidence I'd say.

That's great news, although I'm not sure who they would/could get. I think Delta and United are out because they already in Fargo, and I think it would be difficult to generate the additional traffic to Salt Lake and Denver.

Other options

US Airways - Slight possibility for a direct flight to Phoenix, would be very popular in the winter. But neither US Air or American West have much history up here so would require a fair amount of promotion.

Frontier - Would be the only low-cost carrier operating in North Dakota, and would be another option for those travelling to Fargo to catch United to Denver. Don't know if they are expanding or would consider a market as small as Grand Forks.

Horizon/Alaska - Could offer a flight to Seattle. They are in many Western cities, but Grand Forks would be a long flight for them. Also a partner of Northwest, so that may discourage them doing it.

American - The only major airline not in North Dakota. Don't really have a Western hub, but could offer flights to St. Louis or Dallas.

[WYOBISONMAN]

It is probably a little foolhardy to stake your DI future on an invite from the Big Sky ....... The Sky is tough to read and it is very clear that the current bunch of presidents don't see anything east of the State of Montana. That has been made eminently clear to NDSU. UND would obviously be a much better peer institution for the Sky than would SUU, but you will never solve the geography problem. It seems crazy, but that is Big Sky thinking.............

[aff]

At the risk of sounding like even more of a broken record: SUU will not be going to the BSC, as it doesn't pass the we "want to expand with programs that make us better" sniff test. (It does however, pass the "make us worse" test). SUU doesn't have votes and they don't make the BSC better or enhance the BSC revenue - its just another hungry mouth to feed at the trough of conference revenues. SUU only gets added in desperation if two schools leave the BSC and the BSC hasn't already made a move.

Even in the remote chance SUU should leave the MidCon, the MidCon then is forced to respond by taking UTPA to maintain its core members number and its autobid. Other schools only get added if the MidCon goes to 12.

DU will not go to the BSC unless there are more additions that satisfy DU. DU holds all the cards: they are the only acceptable core DI member. The BSC absolutely needs one more core member for protection, and they (the BSC) will do what it takes to attract DU.

A single canadian school will not be accepted into the BSC, as it wouldn't satisfy the BSC's need for a core member.

The BSC choices are rather simple:

Add DU + 2 others mutually attractive to DU and the BSC (i.e. UBC and UND) - improves the perception of the BSC, opens future markets, increases revenues and assure survival for 15+ years

Add SUU - does nothing to revenue and makes future defections (MT to WAC - MT was informally offered before Idaho was, but decline) more likely, future looks bleak

Do nothing - endangers conference autobid status creating even more instability

Aff,

Until you can grasp the concepts associated with core member and autobid requirements, all your so-called expert comments are just hot air.

Thanks for the personalized message there starcity! I guess I deserve that for trying to look on the bright side of a possible conference affiliation for UND in that last post. Notice I said "Most likely", not going to happen. Either way, next time someone tells me I'm being a downer for UND, I'm going to point to that post as the reason why: Being optimistic gets you blasted.

Either way, I found your use of the "sniff test" pretty amusing. First, you take the second part of the sentence "want to expand with programs that make us better", that has to do with geography, and then throw it out because it doesn't fit your scenario. Than you act like that sniff test is gospel. So tell me again how Northern colorado helped the conference to become "better" again? What was it, two D-I basketball wins in the last three years? 3-8 in football? Yeah, fullerton seems real concerned with making the conference better, not geography at all. Because Northern Colorado over NDSU/SDSU speaks loads about what he thinks of competitiveness vs. geography.

Then you start in with this crap about Denver wanting into the big sky? Whats the change in attendance at basketball going to be? Maybe 3000 extra at 1 game a season? Yeah, I'm sure thats enough for them to hinge their entrance to the sky on. And if UBC does get in, they'll be bringing another canadian school with them, not UND.

So my advice would be to maybe, before you tell me I'm full of hot air, maybe try to use an entire sentence in a quote instead of cutting it off at the part that supports your argument. You know you're stretching when you are modifying the meanings of sentences to support yourself.

[aff]

That's great news, although I'm not sure who they would/could get. I think Delta and United are out because they already in Fargo, and I think it would be difficult to generate the additional traffic to Salt Lake and Denver.

Other options

US Airways - Slight possibility for a direct flight to Phoenix, would be very popular in the winter. But neither US Air or American West have much history up here so would require a fair amount of promotion.

Frontier - Would be the only low-cost carrier operating in North Dakota, and would be another option for those travelling to Fargo to catch United to Denver. Don't know if they are expanding or would consider a market as small as Grand Forks.

Horizon/Alaska - Could offer a flight to Seattle. They are in many Western cities, but Grand Forks would be a long flight for them. Also a partner of Northwest, so that may discourage them doing it.

American - The only major airline not in North Dakota. Don't really have a Western hub, but could offer flights to St. Louis or Dallas.

I'm sure Grand Forks international is going to be able to pull in the big sky, when a two for one deal for NDSU/SDSU couldn't. Give me a break.

[The Sicatoka]

... a two for one deal for NDSU/SDSU couldn't.

We all agree that the BSC is a tough "read" as to what their goals are.

Now, let me ask a simple question: What are their goals?

If it was to spread into the Dakotas, yes, the SU "2-for-1" would be perfectly logical. Apparently, based on actions (or is it inactions?) that's not the goal.

If it was to add large metro TV markets there are other solutions.

If it was to expand their audience (and credibility, and recruiting base) to the north, meaning Canada, there are solutions for that.

Like PCM posted in another thread:

"Anybody can say anything.

Nobody knows everything."

What are the goals of the BSC?

"We shall see" is the safest statement.