BobIwabuchiFan Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 nodakvindy, I don't understand why you are against a house bill that puts the clamps down on the NCAA or any other collegiate organization for trying to be social engineers...We the public did not elect those people and just because the TV has developed them into a large monopolistic organization brazen with cash doesn't mean that they shouldn't be put in their place. So again, why the big issue with anyone trying to help the Sioux??? Is Earl Pomeroy that important to you?? BobIwabuchiFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 Which is exactly what's wrong with the NCAA. What's next? No NCAA games hosted in North Dakota because the two state senators are white? Or banning tournament games in Michigan because Myles Brand isn't a big fan of the Red Wings? Or maye it's just too sunny in Nevada for an NCAA event? What exactly is the criteria? Whatever Myles and his PC bandits decide is the correct way to think? He certainly doesn't see a need to investigate corruption in college football or basketball, but he's going to hang his legacy on college nicknames? Please, for the love of humanity, stop being a self-appointed do-gooder and savior of all! I didn't like him before, but this revelation just makes me RED with anger! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodakvindy Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 I'm against needless legislation that attempts to solve problems that don't exist or that are already subject to existing law. We are already loaded down with countless laws enacted in response to events that occurred because existing laws weren't enforced or legislators are simply pandering to their constituents. I think this legislation has virtually no chance of passing and even if it does, will only result in a lawsuit by the NCAA that they will likely win. Therefore it is pointless to waste time on it. The conflict is between the NCAA and UND (and some other schools) and the courts are the venue to resolve this conflict. The arbitrary nature of rulings on this policy along with the failure to bring it to a vote of the entire membership make this appear to be a winnable case. Look, I think this is a foolish, misguided policyof the NCAA's. But passage of a law like this could have all sorts of unintended consequences on associations of all types, not just the NCAA. As for your "We the people" comment regarding the NCAA that may be true, but it matters little. They are elected by their own membership. Myles Brand didn't just proclaim himself head of the NCAA, he was voted on by college presidents. And colleges are the very breeding ground of most social engineering, so it shouldn't come as a shock that they would try to use their most prominent association to push that agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewey Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 There is no way the ND delegation is going to come out in favor of the nickname legislation. Especially when Dorgan has been given a clean bill of health by the tribes themselves during the whole Abramhoff fiasco with the CASINO PAC fleecing. It would not suprise me in the least that the entire ND delegation has received money from the tribes and they are probably being reminded daily that they were given protection from those tribes in the world of the press by stating they had the best intentions when receiving the money to begin with...Don't depend on any strong actions by the ND delegates because they have already been bought and paid for by the tribes and most likely the DNC is telling them to keep quiet on the issue so as not to direct any of the focus away from the republicans...Just my little conspiracy theory, but wouldn't be suprised if its dead on... BobIwabuchiFan That's very well put, indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmail Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 Only thing is the voting public has short memories and will have forgotten by then. These guys know that. But they also know that the old ND Scandanavians like me hold grudges. Grudges that last generations. Count me among the "grudgelings." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 But they also know that the old ND Scandanavians like me hold grudges. Grudges that last generations. Count me among the "grudgelings." airmail, if you're going to invoke your ancestry, please spell it correctly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmail Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 airmail, if you're going to invoke your ancestry, please spell it correctly! "A"... "I"... whatever. I'm still crochety. (nice catch, BTW) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyfan Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 This is my first ever post. I have been perusing all the messages on this topic. Yesterday I received an invitation in the mail for a fund raiser for Earl Pomeroy (yes, I am a Democrat), sponsored by several people. One of those people was..............David Gipp. Now I understand the position that Earl has taken. As the old saying goes "Don't bite the hand that feeds you". But, as an OLD UND alum, I am wholeheartedly in favor of perserving the Fighting Sioux" name. Earl needs to get a backbone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 ... a fund raiser for Earl Pomeroy ... sponsored by several people. One of those people was ... David Gipp. Where's that guy that always says: Follow the Benjamins. All will become clear. Meanwhile, last night on Fox News at 9 out of Fargo, I see Governor Hoeven talking about how the NCAA has overreached and how he long expected it to go to court and that he expects UND to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 (edited) ...I see Governor Hoeven talking about how the NCAA has overreached and how he long expected it to go to court and that he expects UND to win. Good man! He obviously hasn't lost his 'boys' to any political party. Edited May 9, 2006 by Sioux-cia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMom Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 Meanwhile, last night on Fox News at 9 out of Fargo, I see Governor Hoeven talking about how the NCAA has overreached and how he long expected it to go to court and that he expects UND to win. Look, it's the first thing that Hoeven has done since he set foot into office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 Look, it's the first thing that Hoeven has done since he set foot into office. bolded are strong words in this poster's opinion. Words and actions are two different things. Look at Florida. When the NCAA did it to FSU, the state's governor, state government, and federal congressmen were up in arms and rattling sabres everywhere they could get printed/screened/broadcast. This thing has been in place for quite some time and this is the strongest stance Hoeven can make? Let's face it. With the exception of the Attorney General's office, I doubt we can expect much of anything of strength from our state or federal representatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMom Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 bolded are strong words in this poster's opinion. Words and actions are two different things. Look at Florida. When the NCAA did it to FSU, the state's governor, state government, and federal congressmen were up in arms and rattling sabres everywhere they could get printed/screened/broadcast. This thing has been in place for quite some time and this is the strongest stance Hoeven can make? Let's face it. With the exception of the Attorney General's office, I doubt we can expect much of anything of strength from our state or federal representatives. I don't even know if I would count the AG's office for anything. First it was- we're behind UND and now it's- private funds should pay for this. And you are correct, the North Dakota delegation should have stood up right away and cried foul when the NCAA made their initial decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 What at exactly do Sen. Dorgan and Conrad and Rep. Pomeroy do? They get elected, go away for 2-6 years and aren't heard from again until it's time for another election. Are they being elected or sent to prison? Seems to be about the same thing. At least prisoners learn a trade while incarcerated though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 At least prisoners learn a trade while incarcerated though. How to be better at getting other folks' money? No, wait, ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Has everyone forgotten the $171 million dollars that Dorgan, Conrad and Pomeroy got for Grand Forks after the flood in 1997? And more money for other parts of the state after the same flood? Or all of the money in highway funds, and research dollars, and weather related emergency funds for ag, and so on that they bring in for North Dakota? Like their politics or not, they are elected by the people of North Dakota to bring in money from Washington and they do that job well. They also pass laws like Dru's Law, recently passed by the Senate and sponsored by Dorgan. I don't think it would have made any difference if the Senators, Congressman or Governor had made a big stink about the Fighting Sioux name. No one at the NC$$ would have cared if a politician from the small state of North Dakota made a statement or not. Jeb Bush, like Florida State, has a lot more pull than Hoeven and the state of North Dakota. Our politicians would have been burning bridges with no positive effect, just to make UND fans happy. They have all made statements in favor of the name. People that are in favor of keeping the name should contact them to make sure they are doing things that actually can make a difference. One of those things may be the House legislation being discussed. Personally, I hesitate to make laws that are so narrow in scope but this may be an exception. Also, Dorgan and Conrad have proven very good at back room politics and may be able to make things happen that way. But I think that you are wrong if you think they would have been doing their jobs just by making some big public display of hot air so that UND fans could feel good about what their politicians were doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobIwabuchiFan Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I would like to believe that Dorgan and Pomeroy were the big reasons for all the money you speak of that was sent to the region, but I think it was the level of the disaster and the press on the subject. Pomeroy in particular is having to be quiet on this issue as well as Dorgan due to their PAC connections to the indian tribes and the fact that the DNC is lambasting the Republicans every day as corrupt for their same dealings with the Indian PACS. Lets not kid ourselves into believing these guys really give a da?# about UND and realize quickly that had we established a PAC to donate to their re-election campaigns we would be hearing sweet music from their mouths on the subject and press coverage from them on a daily basis for the retention of the name and for the slap down of the NCAA. I also can't stand the arguement of not using legislation to solve a problem...Thats what they are there for people and it isn't going to make a difference if one extra bill is placed into the multitude of legislative records already established in this country. Some say let the courts decide, but after years of clinton and Democrat control we have a bench that leans left considerably and would probably rule against us. Again, we are going to have to depend on Republicans from a different state to save our nickname or on Democrats with no Indian ties to the Abramhoff scandal outiside the state. So start e-mailing and calling them asking for their support and maybe sending a small contribution to their re-election fund. BobIwabuchiFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxforeverbaby Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 They have the text of the bill up on the web now. Here's the link: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.5289: enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 (2) The regulation of intercollegiate sports activities significantly affects interstate commerce. (3) Any attempt by an entity that regulates intercollegiate sports activities to impose its view of correct social policy on institutions of higher education participating in such activities is inimical to the traditions of higher education in America and is inconsistent with university governance and academic freedom. (b) Liability- An entity that regulates intercollegiate sports activities shall be liable to an institution of higher education that is aggrieved by such entity as a result of any violation of subsection (a). In any action brought under this subsection, the entity that regulates intercollegiate sports activities may be subject to injunction and shall be liable to the aggrieved institution of higher education for any damages caused thereby, including reasonable attorneys' fees and costs. Looks good to me! But I'm no lawyer, just a loyal fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larsensa Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 The good thing about this bill is that it doesn't just regulate the NCAA. It applies to all the other NCAA type organizations that govern college sports as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxman Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 The legal fees is an interesting part. The harder the NCAA fights, the more it is at risk of losing. Of course, they don't seem to recognize when they've dug a hole and need to get out. They just keep digging deeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 SEC. 5. SEVERABILITY AND EFFECTIVE DATE. (b) Effective Date- This Act shall apply to any violation of section 3(a) by an entity that regulates intercollegiate sports activities which occurs on or after August 4, 2005. My, what an interesting date choice (considering the NCAA started this adventure with a decree on August 5, 2005). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 So, how much support will this bill get if North Dakota's only Congressman doesn't support it? My guess is very little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 The legal fees is an interesting part. The harder the NCAA fights, the more it is at risk of losing. Of course, they don't seem to recognize when they've dug a hole and need to get out. They just keep digging deeper. The NC$$ has been embroiled in so many lawsuits/legal actions in the past two decades, I would love to know how many millions have already been spend using money that is suppose to go back to the student athlete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Actually, given the NC$$' often amorphous, and wishy-washy, criteria, even states with schools that are approved by the NC$$ to be "hostile or abusive" may want to join in getting this thing passed. There's nothing preventing Herr Brand, or his like-minded cronies, from changing the rules, again. Moreover, there's nothing preventing different tribal bodies from withdrawing their support, withholding their support or otherwise not playing by a college or the NC$$'s rules in the future. So all of the temporary dispensations granted by His Holiness could be taken away down the road. The fact they invoke the Commerce Clause definitely puts this issue well within the purview of Congressional power. I also love the private right of action that accrues to "injured" institutions. Even if Pomeroy doesn't support this bill, yet, I see no reason why other states' representatives from Utah, Florida or Michigan, for example, should not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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