SportsDoc Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Hockey is a unique sport as it transitions from amateur to professional. It is one sport that offers players with professional ability or aspirations to make a choice. In general, North American players have two options. On the one hand they can play Major Junior Hockey in one of the CHL leagues. They will get paid, if they have their HS diploma they will not have to go to classes. If and when they are good enough, they can make the jump to the NHL and their affiliated Minor Leagues like the AHL. If not at age 20 (except for a few overage exceptions) they are done. On the other hand they can choose to play NCAA Division I hockey at some of the finest schools with some of the finest coaches and facilites in North America. This, too, will afford them an opportunity to advance their skills to the NHL level, all the while working towards a college degree, which can be of great value later in life. Now for the "my opinion" part. I feel that if players choose the college route, they have expressed a desire to work towards that college degree, along with a desire to advance their hockey careers, and in return the schools have dedicated time and effort into their hockey and social development to help them achieve thoses goals. Personally, I think it is disingenuous of the players if they leave without giving the school three years of their time for the investment the school has made in them. After all, it should be the school part of college hockey that keeps them there as much as the hockey part. If the player really feels like he will leave after a year or even two, I would prefer they go the CHL route, and take some classes on the side if they want. Why? Well, for starters, the CHL has a draft every year. Players there are not bid on or courted (recruited), they are drafted. It is a yearly event. At age 20, it's see ya later (yes I know about overage players). NCAA players are recruited. Lots of time and effort is spent by coaches on wooing players. Yet they have no idea if they will get that player, he can go to a rival school just as easily. These coaches must plan for what type of player at what position to bring in each year based on need. It is catagorically unfair for these players to suddenly bolt when the money flashes, putting programs in binds to find replacements who just might not exist in availability. The good programs always rebound and rebuild. But I do not think it is good for college hockey. Final thought: Give college hockey three years or don't come at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxdonyms Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Using this system, we (Sioux fans) would not have the opportunity to see some great players, who we've had the honor of watching for one or two years. Players such as Belfour, Hrkac, Z. Parise, B. Murray, and now Zajac. I'm sure there's more, but there's a few. As a fan, I feel honored to have watched these guys don the green and white, regardless of their time spent at the University. I did not want to see any of them leave, but have never disagreed with their choices. They need to do what is best for them. Look at Parise for example. As a player, was there anything left for him to improve on at the college level? Making the jump to the AHL was vital for him in his development as a player. It's pretty selfish for a person, or a university for that matter, to ask a player to put his career on hold for one or two years, simply because we feel they owe it to us. The coaches do spend a lot of time wooing these players in an effort to get them to come and play for us. However, they've wooed many players who didn't pan out too. Isn't that time wasted as well? It's part of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxman Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 It's a tough issue. College hockey for many years worked to get hockey players to play college hockey instead of going to play major juniors in Canada. Now, we have many more players coming to college and the NHL is looking more and more toward colleges for players. If anything is done to restrict the ability of college players to go pro, then they will go back to playing major juniors so that they will still have the option of going pro early. It is a lousy situation for the fans with players leaving early, but if any restrictions are made we won't see some of them at all. That would be worse for the fans. Not a great situation, but until some solution at the NHL level is developed, we are stuck with what we have. If an NHL solution was found, we would still have competition from the European leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 You're in college. Someone offers you a job that'll pay $80,000 (in the AHL) to $850,000 (in the NHL), plus a six-digit signing bonus. How many new college grads make $80k starting (much less that kind of a starting bonus)? I wouldn't blame any college student for taking the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Using this system, we (Sioux fans) would not have the opportunity to see some great players, who we've had the honor of watching for one or two years. Players such as Belfour, Hrkac, Z. Parise, B. Murray, and now Zajac. I'm sure there's more, but there's a few. As a fan, I feel honored to have watched these guys don the green and white, regardless of their time spent at the University. I did not want to see any of them leave, but have never disagreed with their choices. They need to do what is best for them. Look at Parise for example. As a player, was there anything left for him to improve on at the college level? Making the jump to the AHL was vital for him in his development as a player. It's pretty selfish for a person, or a university for that matter, to ask a player to put his career on hold for one or two years, simply because we feel they owe it to us. The coaches do spend a lot of time wooing these players in an effort to get them to come and play for us. However, they've wooed many players who didn't pan out too. Isn't that time wasted as well? It's part of the game. Agreed. Coaches go out there trying to get the best players who are eligible, fit the team mold, and have the best opportunity to thrive academically and athletically in the program for which the coach is employed. I would be flabbergasted if Lucia or Hakstol or Gwozdecky or Berenson or York or ANY of the big time DI head coaches recruit players just for a one year "thrill ride." After all, it hurts the school if they do thanks to the bogus crap that's called APR. Seriously, if a player decides to leave college early, even if the coaches and administrators beg him not to, the school gets punished. Meanwhile the NCAA goes on the air saying that they have the most competitive, exciting leagues in any sport. Anyways, yeah, my take is this: Come and do your best. Stay as long as you can. Do well in school. When you jump, please don't throw away the academic part of your stay in college. As an example, Adam Oates (RPI) returned to RPI during the summers to complete his degree. I think every college athlete should complete his or her degree if not in consecutive years, at least by one of the myriad of alternative methods to finish out the degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 The NHL CBA: How much can unsigned players from the 2003 and 2004 Entry Drafts contract for? Clubs may sign 2004 draftees to a maximum salary of $984,200 and 2003 draftees to a maximum salary of $942,400. These salaries are based on a 24% rollback to the maximum salary under the previous CBA for the players' respective draft years. Additionally, draftees from prior years may negotiate for a signing bonus not to exceed 30% of his maximum annual compensation. Performance bonuses may be negotiated as per new CBA rules. That's a lot of money. Could you turn down a shot at $984,200 (plus 30% signing bonus) for playing a game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxnami Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 The only recent player I didn't have an issue with leaving after 2 years was Zach Parise, he was just too good for this level at that point, but as a general rule I think 3 years should be standard. I really wish the NHL would consider enforcing this, BUT players like Toews might then go to Major Juniors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 I agree give the scholarships to those most likely to get a degree - I can't blame these guys going with he $$$ - But it's not like we Win Championships all that often & have to have em I enjoy watching em develop but you can't tell me all these young guys have developed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 You're in college. Someone offers you a job that'll pay $80,000 (in the AHL) to $850,000 (in the NHL), plus a six-digit signing bonus. How many new college grads make $80k starting (much less that kind of a starting bonus)? I wouldn't blame any college student for taking the money. Sica is right most of us don't make $80,000 living in Grand Forks probably will with inflation and 15 plus years more of work, if you are I want to know what your career path is. I would bet it's Lawyer private practice, You work for EERC, your a Dr and it is your salary for the first three months of the year, or you are a senior exec of the Federal Government with 20+ years of work. I don't fault these kids for taking the money. I not so sure any of us can fault them for pursuing their dream is the playing in the NHL. Granted most of them don't even come close to making it. But think of it this way if you were sitting at home not making a lot of money and someone offered you a signing bonus of 200,000-450,000 and a yearly salary of about 80,000 with the possibility of making more if you make a certain level most of us would take it even if it meant moving to another city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csonked Out Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 I have to disagree with most post on here on this topic. In any major D1 sport the dominate teams always have their best players leave early. Basketball look at duke and north carolina, football look at miami and USC, hockey minnesota and north dakota. When a lot of athletes go to school as i have listed most of them have dreams, and fairly realistic of going to the pro's and use college as a development process. 10 years ago college hockey didn't have this problem as much because the talent level wasn't as great as it is today, sure there were the hrkac's and joyce's that dominated but in the past five years the talent pool has increased as more prevelant players are choosing the college route. Toews is a perfect example, would the top college player in canada even consider playing college hockey 10 years ago, probably not, because they could develop faster in the CHl or WHl, but now they can gain just as much exposure in college hockey. Most coaches know players wont stay 4 years, and can adapt to it. Before Zach Parise came here his dad told us that he would stay 2 years max, and he did, and after he left we recruited more blue chippa's to replace him. College hockey has come a long way in 10 years, and i personally have no problem with these guys comin and getting 2 free years of college, cause it can only be good for the game, and myself as a fan has no problem with that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 & the chicks are Free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Is Prp Graduating ? Imagine a team full of guys like him I'd be entertained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMom Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 We're here for a good time, not a long time......so have a good time the sun can't shine everyday.... Life's a lot like college hockey careers......short, so enjoy it while you have it. I'd rather watch a player wear a Sioux jersey for a couple of years than never have seen them wear one at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Say what you will but college hockey is as much a business as any other business. We pay the players with scholarships, they entertain us while they're here and once or if their talent has been fine tuned, they, if they're lucky, move on to the big time. As HockeyMom points out, we gotta enjoy 'em while we have 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7>4 Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 The NHL CBA: That's a lot of money. Could you turn down a shot at $984,200 (plus 30% signing bonus) for playing a game? Money, money, money. Sadly, it is what makes the world go round. However, for a good enough player the money will always be there. I'd like to see a survey of guys who left early and pinballed between the AHL and the NHL for their careers to determine how they now feel about leaving early and missing out on the complete college experience. In other words, in hindsight, was the money worth it? Let's start the survey with Byan Lundbolm and Ryan Bayda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
termie Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 How about asking Jason Blake if his last year at UND was a good career move? That's for a guy that was skating in college with grey hair. Of course when they offer you enough money you have to take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 Yeah, gee it really sucks having a program that churns out NHL talent every season. Terrible. If people are so attached to "the college experience", and expect these guys to foresake their pro dreams to entertain us, perhaps they should root for UAA or Michigan Tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZSIOUX Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 ENJOY the players as long as we get to see them play. i dont care if they play 1 year or 4 years. as long as they give 110% then thats cool with me. it sucks to lose players early but they need to do whats right for them and thats getting the best possible pro contract that they can and if that means leaving 1, 2 or 3 years early then oh well. if they are fortunate enough to play at the next level then thats what we have to deal with.......................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 What would you rather see? A player with great potential who plays up to that potential and leaves after two or three years? Or a player with great potential who stays all four years because he never lives up to his promise? The fact that players with great potential are developing here and leaving early speaks volumes about the quality of UND's hockey program. I wouldn't have it any other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yzerman19 Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 Remember Matt Greene's poorly received comment about why he went to UND? The fact is it is a pro hockey factory. If you do not let guys leave early, they will not play NCAA, that simple. The other aspect of major junior, is it is a job. More games, long bus rides...Swift Current to Moose Jaw sounds like a fun trip in January. College on a full ride, as a campus God...college is fun. It isn't that much work, and you can keep being a kid. Not to mention you don't have to worry about getting gooned and having your career end as much as you would playing for Swift Current. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagard Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 Money, money, money. Sadly, it is what makes the world go round. However, for a good enough player the money will always be there. I'd like to see a survey of guys who left early and pinballed between the AHL and the NHL for their careers to determine how they now feel about leaving early and missing out on the complete college experience. In other words, in hindsight, was the money worth it? Let's start the survey with Byan Lundbolm and Ryan Bayda. The money won't always be there. Guys like Parise, Vanek, Bochenski, Ryan Suter, etc... all would have lost big money had they stuck around in college. Same for the this years wave of departures. Guys like Bayda, Lundbolm and countless others have the financial ability to go back and complete the college experience. I imagine they would be fairly popular around campus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 Don't know where else to put this but, WOW!!! Ovechkin reached 100 points yesterday!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 Don't know where else to put this but, WOW!!! Ovechkin reached 100 points yesterday!!!! Crosby is not far behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxnami Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 Crosby is not far behind. Could you imagine Toews on a line with one of the guys. That would be some serious firepower. This, of course, would be after his college graduation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 This, of course, would be after his college graduation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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