Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[MplsBison]

I am perfectly fine with REA not changing any logos. They are fully within their right to do so, and I support their position...the only potential problem that could ever be is if NCAA Hockey, decides through their exploration to move on with an opening round where high seeds host a best 2 of 3 series, but we r long way from that taking place. If that actual day were to come, it would be unfortunate for us. Since were under the WCHA, umbrella until after the Final 5/6 when the NCAA's start, I don't see any reasons to change logos.

The NCAA BBAll tourney has indeed had opening round games at local sites... I've been to Boise in 2009 to watch opening round games at Taco Bell Arena, which is where the Broncos play.

It makes you laugh. Here you have the typical UND hockey fan: acknowledging that this so-called "sport" called 'basketball' has national tournaments at sites just like the REA and by implication you admit that hosting such a 1st round of the national tournament would be an unprecedented way for the state of ND, the city of GF and UND to show off their amazing facility, school, town and state to the nation.

But who cares?! So long as hockey doesn't get exactly their way....to heck with everyone else!!

But then again, has this not been the exact arrogance and selfishness displayed by hockey the entire time? Hockey will kick and scream allllllll teh way down...to the bitter....bitter......BRACKISH ... end.

Sorry fans of bball and especially UND bball....apparently you have no place at UND.

[CMSioux]

UND needs to sell the rights to the Fighting Sioux name to The Ralph then The Ralph can continue to use the name and make money off the logo items. UND has no use for the name anymore but they still own the rights. UND washes it's hands but The Ralph can preserve the name forever.

[LeftyZL]

It makes you laugh. Here you have the typical UND hockey fan: acknowledging that this so-called "sport" called 'basketball' has national tournaments at sites just like the REA and by implication you admit that hosting such a 1st round of the national tournament would be an unprecedented way for the state of ND, the city of GF and UND to show off their amazing facility, school, town and state to the nation.

But who cares?! So long as hockey doesn't get exactly their way....to heck with everyone else!!

But then again, has this not been the exact arrogance and selfishness displayed by hockey the entire time? Hockey will kick and scream allllllll teh way down...to the bitter....bitter......BRACKISH ... end.

Sorry fans of bball and especially UND bball....apparently you have no place at UND.

It doesn't matter whether you are a fan of basketball or any other sport at UND. You continually link the settlement between the NCAA and UND to Ralph Engelstad Arena, when in reality there is no link.

All that matters is that the Ralph Engelstad Arena is a private entity and can do whatever it wants without listening to the NCAA or even UND for that matter. Its(REA's) job is to make a profit and be successful.

[Stromer]

It makes you laugh. Here you have the typical UND hockey fan: acknowledging that this so-called "sport" called 'basketball' has national tournaments at sites just like the REA and by implication you admit that hosting such a 1st round of the national tournament would be an unprecedented way for the state of ND, the city of GF and UND to show off their amazing facility, school, town and state to the nation.

Sorry fans of bball and especially UND bball....apparently you have no place at UND.

And what leads you to believe UND would ever be in position to be a host in the first round of the NCAA basketball tourney? Pigs have a better chance of flying than that does of occuring. So the logos won't be a problem after all.

[redwing77]

And what leads you to believe UND would ever be in position to be a host in the first round of the NCAA basketball tourney? Pigs have a better chance of flying than that does of occuring. So the logos won't be a problem after all.

I was about to comment the same thing.

I thought tourney sites were supposed to be neutral anyways?

Of course, UND and REA could vie to host the tourney if UND promises not to do well enough to make the tourney in the first place....

But that seems likely since MPLSBison just told us that we might as well drop the sport anyways.

[darell1976]

I was about to comment the same thing.

I thought tourney sites were supposed to be neutral anyways?

Of course, UND and REA could vie to host the tourney if UND promises not to do well enough to make the tourney in the first place....

But that seems likely since MPLSBison just told us that we might as well drop the sport anyways.

The year NDSU went to the NCAA tourny they played in Sioux Falls...why not Fargo because its a NEUTRAL SITE!!!!!!!

[Shawn-O]

The year NDSU went to the NCAA tourny they played in Sioux Falls...why not Fargo because its a NEUTRAL SITE!!!!!!!

I'm pretty sure that was the Summit conference tourney in Sioux Falls.

[Stromer]

I was about to comment the same thing.

I thought tourney sites were supposed to be neutral anyways?

Of course, UND and REA could vie to host the tourney if UND promises not to do well enough to make the tourney in the first place....

But that seems likely since MPLSBison just told us that we might as well drop the sport anyways.

Not sure about that. I know universities can host first and 2nd round games on their home courts (ex. Boise St.) but in the event of that team actually making the tourney as well, I'm sure they would get sent to a different site.

[MplsBison]

It doesn't matter whether you are a fan of basketball or any other sport at UND. You continually link the settlement between the NCAA and UND to Ralph Engelstad Arena, when in reality there is no link.

All that matters is that the Ralph Engelstad Arena is a private entity and can do whatever it wants without listening to the NCAA or even UND for that matter. Its(REA's) job is to make a profit and be successful.

Fine - REA can be a private entity without UND hockey playing there.

UND does not have to play in that facility.

NCAA should sanction UND if they continue to play in a facility that purposefully thumbs its nose at the legal process that has been agreed to by the state, school and the NCAA.

[MplsBison]

And what leads you to believe UND would ever be in position to be a host in the first round of the NCAA basketball tourney? Pigs have a better chance of flying than that does of occuring. So the logos won't be a problem after all.

Dayton, Boise, etc. etc. etc.

You don't have to be a huge market to host the first round.

[Ranger]

Dayton, Boise, etc. etc. etc.

You don't have to be a huge market to host the first round.

Dayton metro population: >900K

Boise metro population: >600K

Grand Forks metro population: <100K

North Dakota population: <650K

MplsBison IQ: <90; possibly lower

[Crevec]

Dayton, Boise, etc. etc. etc.

You don't have to be a huge market to host the first round.

No you don't have to be a huge market to host but to give you a few numbers, even though you didn't respond to them the last time I posted those:

Dayton, OH: City - 166,000 Metro area - 848,000 Hosted in 2009 and 2006

Boise, ID: City - 202,000 Metro area - 585,000 Hosted in 2009 and 2005

Spokane, WA: City - 205,000 Metro area - 600,000 Hosted in 2010 and 2007

Omaha, NE: City - 454,000 Metro area - 849,000 Hosted in 2008

Little Rock, AR: City - 191,000 Metro area - 685,000 Hosted in 2008

Buffalo, NY: City - 270,000 Metro area - 1.25 Million Hosted in 2007

Lexington, KY: City - 296,000 Metro area - 453,000 Hosted in 2007

Worcester, MA: City - 182,000 Metro area - Not listed but is only 40 Miles from Boston Hosted in 2005

So from the past five years the absolute smallest city was Dayton at 166k and the smallest metro area (I think a better measure) was Lexington, KY at 453,000 but there are a few rabid college basketball fans in that area to possibly boost attendance (U of Kentucky is located there)

Fargo: City - 95,000 Metro area - 200,000

Grand Forks: City - 51,000 Metro area - 97,000

So if Fargo hosted a site it would be the smallest city and metro area by half the size compared to any city in the last 5 years.

Grand Forks would be the smallest city by almost three times as many and the metro area would be almost 4.5 times smaller than any host.

I would highly doubt that the NCAA would put one of it's premier events at a place that is considered as remote and small as either of those possible ND cities.

[Crevec]

Dayton metro population: >900K

Boise metro population: >600K

Grand Forks metro population: <100K

North Dakota population: <650K

MplsBison IQ: <90; possibly lower

Sorry that I posted an almost similar reply to what you had, I looked at a few more hosting sites and was making my reply when you posted yours.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

Dayton metro population: >900K

Boise metro population: >600K

Grand Forks metro population: <100K

North Dakota population: <650K

MplsBison IQ: <90; possibly lower

Bazinga!

[Let'sGoHawks!]

No you don't have to be a huge market to host but to give you a few numbers, even though you didn't respond to them the last time I posted those:

Dayton, OH: City - 166,000 Metro area - 848,000 Hosted in 2009 and 2006

Boise, ID: City - 202,000 Metro area - 585,000 Hosted in 2009 and 2005

Spokane, WA: City - 205,000 Metro area - 600,000 Hosted in 2010 and 2007

Omaha, NE: City - 454,000 Metro area - 849,000 Hosted in 2008

Little Rock, AR: City - 191,000 Metro area - 685,000 Hosted in 2008

Buffalo, NY: City - 270,000 Metro area - 1.25 Million Hosted in 2007

Lexington, KY: City - 296,000 Metro area - 453,000 Hosted in 2007

Worcester, MA: City - 182,000 Metro area - Not listed but is only 40 Miles from Boston Hosted in 2005

So from the past five years the absolute smallest city was Dayton at 166k and the smallest metro area (I think a better measure) was Lexington, KY at 453,000 but there are a few rabid college basketball fans in that area to possibly boost attendance (U of Kentucky is located there)

Fargo: City - 95,000 Metro area - 200,000

Grand Forks: City - 51,000 Metro area - 97,000

So if Fargo hosted a site it would be the smallest city and metro area by half the size compared to any city in the last 5 years.

Grand Forks would be the smallest city by almost three times as many and the metro area would be almost 4.5 times smaller than any host.

I would highly doubt that the NCAA would put one of it's premier events at a place that is considered as remote and small as either of those possible ND cities.

You guys and your facts! How is MPLS supposed to try and make points when you ruin things with actual facts!

[MplsBison]

No you don't have to be a huge market to host but to give you a few numbers, even though you didn't respond to them the last time I posted those:

Dayton, OH: City - 166,000 Metro area - 848,000 Hosted in 2009 and 2006

Boise, ID: City - 202,000 Metro area - 585,000 Hosted in 2009 and 2005

Spokane, WA: City - 205,000 Metro area - 600,000 Hosted in 2010 and 2007

Omaha, NE: City - 454,000 Metro area - 849,000 Hosted in 2008

Little Rock, AR: City - 191,000 Metro area - 685,000 Hosted in 2008

Buffalo, NY: City - 270,000 Metro area - 1.25 Million Hosted in 2007

Lexington, KY: City - 296,000 Metro area - 453,000 Hosted in 2007

Worcester, MA: City - 182,000 Metro area - Not listed but is only 40 Miles from Boston Hosted in 2005

So from the past five years the absolute smallest city was Dayton at 166k and the smallest metro area (I think a better measure) was Lexington, KY at 453,000 but there are a few rabid college basketball fans in that area to possibly boost attendance (U of Kentucky is located there)

Fargo: City - 95,000 Metro area - 200,000

Grand Forks: City - 51,000 Metro area - 97,000

So if Fargo hosted a site it would be the smallest city and metro area by half the size compared to any city in the last 5 years.

Grand Forks would be the smallest city by almost three times as many and the metro area would be almost 4.5 times smaller than any host.

I would highly doubt that the NCAA would put one of it's premier events at a place that is considered as remote and small as either of those possible ND cities.

Thank you for proving my point was correct! I said you don't have to be a huge market to host an NCAA MBB game and your numbers prove that to be true.

The NCAA awards 1st round host sites based on bids... not on the size of the city. GF is accessable by air from all over the country via Mpls and Chicago and is only 1 hr drive from Fargo. Plenty of hotel rooms between GF and Fargo. Not to mention that GF alone can support a sold out REA, as UND hockey statistics can attest to.

What an amazing opportunity to showcase one of ND's finest facilities as well as the state to the nation! There would never be more national interest in ND from a sporting event in the history of ND college athletics combined.

But only if the REA is willing to comply to the settlement.

I will rest thankfully on the fact that this is purely a business decision. Too many dollars are involved and thus, emotional appeals and emotionally-driven traditions are non-factors.

[Stromer]

Thank you for proving my point was correct! I said you don't have to be a huge market to host an NCAA MBB game and your numbers prove that to be true.

The NCAA awards 1st round host sites based on bids... not on the size of the city. GF is accessable by air from all over the country via Mpls and Chicago and is only 1 hr drive from Fargo. Plenty of hotel rooms between GF and Fargo. Not to mention that GF alone can support a sold out REA, as UND hockey statistics can attest to.

They also pick sites that will get the largest attendance. Its already been proven that in GF, basketball does not generate the excitement that other sports do. Couple that with the fact that the first round is always on the same weekend as the WCHA Final Five in St. Paul, do you honestly think anyone would give two cents about hosting the bball tourney? If the town and university don't embrace it, it would never work.

And btw, we hear from non conference teams how hard travel is to get to GF, with most flying into Minneapolis and some even to Winnipeg. But if you call that acceptable, I guess we will have to go with it. I just think the NCAA might have other ideas...

[82SiouxGuy]

They also pick sites that will get the largest attendance. Its already been proven that in GF, basketball does not generate the excitement that other sports do. Couple that with the fact that the first round is always on the same weekend as the WCHA Final Five in St. Paul, do you honestly think anyone would give two cents about hosting the bball tourney? If the town and university don't embrace it, it would never work.

And btw, we hear from non conference teams how hard travel is to get to GF, with most flying into Minneapolis and some even to Winnipeg. But if you call that acceptable, I guess we will have to go with it. I just think the NCAA might have other ideas...

Basketball isn't attracting that kind of support at the present time in Grand Forks, but it has in the past. There is no proof that it won't again at some time in the future.

That being said, REA isn't going to try to be a NCAA Division I Men's basketball tourney host for a few reasons. It is a great hockey facility, but it isn't quite as good for basketball. The seats are a little too far from the court, especially on the ends, and the sight lines aren't premium. Plus the number of seats isn't huge. Most NCAA Division I tournament games are held at NBA size arenas or larger. They range from the 18-20,000 range up to the domes that can fit 50,000 plus. At 13-14,000 people REA is smaller than most other arenas that are used. So the arena would have a very hard time winning a bid even without the logos being present.

[MplsBison]

They also pick sites that will get the largest attendance. Its already been proven that in GF, basketball does not generate the excitement that other sports do. Couple that with the fact that the first round is always on the same weekend as the WCHA Final Five in St. Paul, do you honestly think anyone would give two cents about hosting the bball tourney? If the town and university don't embrace it, it would never work.

And btw, we hear from non conference teams how hard travel is to get to GF, with most flying into Minneapolis and some even to Winnipeg. But if you call that acceptable, I guess we will have to go with it. I just think the NCAA might have other ideas...

You do make reasonable points, but nonetheless I've done laid the groundwork for reasonable doubt to the argument that the NCAA would *never* grant the REA a first round host to the NCAA DI men's basketball tournament.

It could reasonably happen -- but only if the REA complies to the settlement.

[MplsBison]

Basketball isn't attracting that kind of support at the present time in Grand Forks, but it has in the past. There is no proof that it won't again at some time in the future.

That being said, REA isn't going to try to be a NCAA Division I Men's basketball tourney host for a few reasons. It is a great hockey facility, but it isn't quite as good for basketball. The seats are a little too far from the court, especially on the ends, and the sight lines aren't premium. Plus the number of seats isn't huge. Most NCAA Division I tournament games are held at NBA size arenas or larger. They range from the 18-20,000 range up to the domes that can fit 50,000 plus. At 13-14,000 people REA is smaller than most other arenas that are used. So the arena would have a very hard time winning a bid even without the logos being present.

You guys keep trying to keep the tournament out of the REA, but as hard as you try you're simply not correct.

Boise's Taco Bell Arena has been a first round host numerous times and has capacity of ~13k: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taco_Bell_Arena

Spokane's VM Arena is in the same boat, with capacity ~12k. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spokane_Veterans_Memorial_Arena

[passit_offthegoalie]

Hey MplsBIson, I'll remove all the logos myself if you promise to never post on the SiouxSports forum again.

This fool must not have had friends or a good parent growing up to tell him/her when to take a hint and shut his/her mouth. It's probably best to ignore MplsBison and not encourage his antisocial behavior.

[darell1976]

I think when UND pics a new nickname the REA will eventually start removing the "required" logos in the arena and start replacing them with the new logos. It will be tough to do, but everyone knows it will come down to it.

[star2city]

Basketball isn't attracting that kind of support at the present time in Grand Forks, but it has in the past. There is no proof that it won't again at some time in the future.

That being said, REA isn't going to try to be a NCAA Division I Men's basketball tourney host for a few reasons. It is a great hockey facility, but it isn't quite as good for basketball. The seats are a little too far from the court, especially on the ends, and the sight lines aren't premium. Plus the number of seats isn't huge. Most NCAA Division I tournament games are held at NBA size arenas or larger. They range from the 18-20,000 range up to the domes that can fit 50,000 plus. At 13-14,000 people REA is smaller than most other arenas that are used. So the arena would have a very hard time winning a bid even without the logos being present.

Definitely agree that the REA wouldn't be considered for as an NCAA Men's host, but for different reasons: lack of upper-end hotel rooms in the city and lack of flights/seats into GF or within an hour. The NCAA generally has minimums for these: even Fargo probably wouldn't qualify.

The REA could definitely go after hosting a women's NCAA 1st and 2nd round and the men's Summit championship. Those are much easily to qualify for. In both cases though, the Sioux logos could be counted against the REA. The Alerus could also go after those same events, as well as a men's hockey regional - but the rental ice capability would be costly.

What I didn't understand is why UND didn't pursue hosting the women's hockey national championship at the Urban Plains arena in Fargo. The NCAA clearly has an issue with the REA - as any bid it has is doomed to failure - but doesn't have one with the Alerus and the Urban Plains arena.

[Blackheart]

Definitely agree that the REA wouldn't be considered for as an NCAA Men's host, but for different reasons: lack of upper-end hotel rooms in the city and lack of flights/seats into GF or within an hour. The NCAA generally has minimums for these: even Fargo probably wouldn't qualify.

The REA could definitely go after hosting a women's NCAA 1st and 2nd round and the men's Summit championship. Those are much easily to qualify for. In both cases though, the Sioux logos could be counted against the REA. The Alerus could also go after those same events, as well as a men's hockey regional - but the rental ice capability would be costly.

What I didn't understand is why UND didn't pursue hosting the women's hockey national championship at the Urban Plains arena in Fargo. The NCAA clearly has an issue with the REA - as any bid it has is doomed to failure - but doesn't have one with the Alerus and the Urban Plains arena.

About the most UND could host is the Summit League Bball tourney...Attendance is extremely low for those games...

[82SiouxGuy]

Definitely agree that the REA wouldn't be considered for as an NCAA Men's host, but for different reasons: lack of upper-end hotel rooms in the city and lack of flights/seats into GF or within an hour. The NCAA generally has minimums for these: even Fargo probably wouldn't qualify.

The REA could definitely go after hosting a women's NCAA 1st and 2nd round and the men's Summit championship. Those are much easily to qualify for. In both cases though, the Sioux logos could be counted against the REA. The Alerus could also go after those same events, as well as a men's hockey regional - but the rental ice capability would be costly.

What I didn't understand is why UND didn't pursue hosting the women's hockey national championship at the Urban Plains arena in Fargo. The NCAA clearly has an issue with the REA - as any bid it has is doomed to failure - but doesn't have one with the Alerus and the Urban Plains arena.

I agree on the potential for hosting women's tourney games, that's why I made a point of saying men's games. And you're right about hotel rooms and flights, I'm sure those are considerations.

I don't think that UND was the driving force in applying to host the women's Frozen Four. I would guess that REA did that, although I am sure that they kept UND informed. REA isn't going to do the application so the games can be hosted at Urban Plains. It may have been a test to see if the NCAA would budge on their demands. Future applications may come directly from UND and the Urban Plains if it is determined that the NCAA will follow through and not allow tourney games in the REA.